Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum

[rinkrat19]

Sorry if this has been answered.... but what's the reasoning behind judicial externships not being eligible for SPFIF?

It's not public interest. SPFIF exists to support public interest students.

That's what I don't get. How is working for a court/judge not public interest? It's not like courts are for-profit entities.

[D-hops]

Sorry if this has been answered.... but what's the reasoning behind judicial externships not being eligible for SPFIF?

It's not public interest. SPFIF exists to support public interest students.

That's what I don't get. How is working for a court/judge not public interest? It's not like courts are for-profit entities.

I think they want you to help poor people or under-represented legal groups or "change"-oriented organizations. All things that not-for-profits do. Working for a judge doesn't really fit that bill. You are essentially just working on the lowest paying side of litigation.

[rinkrat19]

I think they want you to help poor people or under-represented legal groups or "change"-oriented organizations. All things that not-for-profits do. Working for a judge doesn't really fit that bill. You are essentially just working on the lowest paying side of litigation.

The SPFIF page (which I finally found) does say "SFPIF cannot fund judicial clerkships due to legal restraints." I'm still curious what those might be, but at least that's a reason beyond "courts aren't PI," because NU considers a lot of things PI that aren't necessarily aimed at disadvantaged groups/change-oriented orgs. (The American Dental Association, the Smithsonian, Girl Scouts and various AG/PD/DA's offices, for starters. If working for a DA or PD is PI, then how is working for a judge not?)
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/ ... iceemp.pdf

[09042014]

I dunno what the legal restraint is, but I doubt they could actually afford to fund all the judicial internships that 1Ls get. They only raise enough to fund 40-50 students.

[D-hops]

I think they want you to help poor people or under-represented legal groups or "change"-oriented organizations. All things that not-for-profits do. Working for a judge doesn't really fit that bill. You are essentially just working on the lowest paying side of litigation.

The SPFIF page (which I finally found) does say "SFPIF cannot fund judicial clerkships due to legal restraints." I'm still curious what those might be, but at least that's a reason beyond "courts aren't PI," because NU considers a lot of things PI that aren't necessarily aimed at disadvantaged groups/change-oriented orgs. (The American Dental Association, the Smithsonian, Girl Scouts and various AG/PD/DA's offices, for starters. If working for a DA or PD is PI, then how is working for a judge not?)
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/ ... iceemp.pdf

Yeah, I didn't ever participate on anything with SFPIF so I don't really know that much. In the end, those are the rules that you have to live by and if you want to work a judicial internship for your 1L summer, you can get sign up for the externship class and get loans to cover your summer expenses. Or potentially find a third party grant to pay for the expenses.

[bjsesq]

I think they want you to help poor people or under-represented legal groups or "change"-oriented organizations. All things that not-for-profits do. Working for a judge doesn't really fit that bill. You are essentially just working on the lowest paying side of litigation.

The SPFIF page (which I finally found) does say "SFPIF cannot fund judicial clerkships due to legal restraints." I'm still curious what those might be, but at least that's a reason beyond "courts aren't PI," because NU considers a lot of things PI that aren't necessarily aimed at disadvantaged groups/change-oriented orgs. (The American Dental Association, the Smithsonian, Girl Scouts and various AG/PD/DA's offices, for starters. If working for a DA or PD is PI, then how is working for a judge not?)
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/ ... iceemp.pdf

Yeah, I didn't ever participate on anything with SFPIF so I don't really know that much. In the end, those are the rules that you have to live by and if you want to work a judicial internship for your 1L summer, you can get sign up for the externship class and get loans to cover your summer expenses. Or potentially find a third party grant to pay for the expenses.

Tell us more about this "third party."

[09042014]

I think they want you to help poor people or under-represented legal groups or "change"-oriented organizations. All things that not-for-profits do. Working for a judge doesn't really fit that bill. You are essentially just working on the lowest paying side of litigation.

The SPFIF page (which I finally found) does say "SFPIF cannot fund judicial clerkships due to legal restraints." I'm still curious what those might be, but at least that's a reason beyond "courts aren't PI," because NU considers a lot of things PI that aren't necessarily aimed at disadvantaged groups/change-oriented orgs. (The American Dental Association, the Smithsonian, Girl Scouts and various AG/PD/DA's offices, for starters. If working for a DA or PD is PI, then how is working for a judge not?)
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/ ... iceemp.pdf

Yeah, I didn't ever participate on anything with SFPIF so I don't really know that much. In the end, those are the rules that you have to live by and if you want to work a judicial internship for your 1L summer, you can get sign up for the externship class and get loans to cover your summer expenses. Or potentially find a third party grant to pay for the expenses.

Tell us more about this "third party."

Since you are ready and willing to wear a dress, and have no problem being sleep molested this should be trivial.

[bjsesq]

Since you are ready and willing to wear a dress, and have no problem being sleep molested this should be trivial.

LOFUCKINGL

[D-hops]

Since you are ready and willing to wear a dress, and have no problem being sleep molested this should be trivial.

This is actually pretty accurate. Get on the diverse student Listserv and there are a lot of grant-type things for PI (that include working for judges) that get sent around.

ETA: very few of them require being someone's boytoy

[bjsesq]

ETA: very few of them require being someone's boytoy

Well, that's bullshit. I don't want to live in a world where you can't get employment based on sexual favors. Neither does HGL, I'd wager.

[D-hops]

ETA: very few of them require being someone's boytoy

Well, that's bullshit. I don't want to live in a world where you can't get employment based on sexual favors. Neither does HGL, I'd wager.

"Doesn't require," I said nothing about not taking sexual favors into consideration.

[bjsesq]

ETA: very few of them require being someone's boytoy

Well, that's bullshit. I don't want to live in a world where you can't get employment based on sexual favors. Neither does HGL, I'd wager.

"Doesn't require," I said nothing about not taking sexual favors into consideration.

Well then. I feel a little relieved.

[Holly Golightly]

ETA: very few of them require being someone's boytoy

Well, that's bullshit. I don't want to live in a world where you can't get employment based on sexual favors. Neither does HGL, I'd wager.

"Doesn't require," I said nothing about not taking sexual favors into consideration.

Well then. I feel a little relieved.

Ditto.

[Horsefeathers]

Wondering if you have a sense of how NU grads are competing these days for BigFed jobs? I already put down my seat deposit at NU and am excited to start in the fall, but have got some serious cold feet about sticker and have zero interest in BigLaw.

While the LRAP is a real incentive for me, I realize that NU is not exactly a finishing school for high level federal legal jobs. Is it a case of "if there's a will, there's a way" - provided competitive class standing - or would I likely find one strike against me because of NU orientation? And what percentile is competetive for such jobs?

I'd appreciate any information, annectdotal, made-up, or otherwise.

Thanks!

[09042014]

Wondering if you have a sense of how NU grads are competing these days for BigFed jobs? I already put down my seat deposit at NU and am excited to start in the fall, but have got some serious cold feet about sticker and have zero interest in BigLaw.

While the LRAP is a real incentive for me, I realize that NU is not exactly a finishing school for high level federal legal jobs. Is it a case of "if there's a will, there's a way" - provided competitive class standing - or would I likely find one strike against me because of NU orientation? And what percentile is competetive for such jobs?

I'd appreciate any information, annectdotal, made-up, or otherwise.

Thanks!

NU doesn't have a big law orientation, at least no more than the average t14. It has a professional orientation as opposed to an academic orientation.

I don't know what BigFed takes, or even how they hire. But I doubt NU's focus on anything really make a difference.

You can do semester long externships, which might help getting your foot in the door.

[bjsesq]

Wondering if you have a sense of how NU grads are competing these days for BigFed jobs? I already put down my seat deposit at NU and am excited to start in the fall, but have got some serious cold feet about sticker and have zero interest in BigLaw.

While the LRAP is a real incentive for me, I realize that NU is not exactly a finishing school for high level federal legal jobs. Is it a case of "if there's a will, there's a way" - provided competitive class standing - or would I likely find one strike against me because of NU orientation? And what percentile is competetive for such jobs?

I'd appreciate any information, annectdotal, made-up, or otherwise.

Thanks!

I have a friend who is DOJ for her 2L summer, so I'll see what her thoughts on the matter are.

[Horsefeathers]

Wondering if you have a sense of how NU grads are competing these days for BigFed jobs? I already put down my seat deposit at NU and am excited to start in the fall, but have got some serious cold feet about sticker and have zero interest in BigLaw.

While the LRAP is a real incentive for me, I realize that NU is not exactly a finishing school for high level federal legal jobs. Is it a case of "if there's a will, there's a way" - provided competitive class standing - or would I likely find one strike against me because of NU orientation? And what percentile is competetive for such jobs?

I'd appreciate any information, annectdotal, made-up, or otherwise.

Thanks!

I have a friend who is DOJ for her 2L summer, so I'll see what her thoughts on the matter are.

Thanks a lot. Looking forward to hearing her thoughts.

[hmlee]

Wondering if you have a sense of how NU grads are competing these days for BigFed jobs? I already put down my seat deposit at NU and am excited to start in the fall, but have got some serious cold feet about sticker and have zero interest in BigLaw.

While the LRAP is a real incentive for me, I realize that NU is not exactly a finishing school for high level federal legal jobs. Is it a case of "if there's a will, there's a way" - provided competitive class standing - or would I likely find one strike against me because of NU orientation? And what percentile is competetive for such jobs?

I'd appreciate any information, annectdotal, made-up, or otherwise.

Thanks!

I have a friend who is DOJ for her 2L summer, so I'll see what her thoughts on the matter are.

Thanks a lot. Looking forward to hearing her thoughts.

And I am that friend. I am working at the DOJ summer (and loving it). As far as I can tell, going to Northwestern in no way hurts you vis-a-vis getting a job with one of the major governmental organizations. Northwestern produces plenty of 1L DOJ people, 2L SLIP interns, and 3L honors program entrants. Plus I know many more people who are working for other governmental agencies this summer... off the top of my head I know people who are working (or have worked for) the DOJ, the SEC, the FTC, the FCC, and the EPA. And that doesn't take into account all of the federal clerks that come out of NU (important because many of the BigFed agencies like to hire ex-clerks).

The process for getting one of these jobs is admittedly a bit of a black box. I will say that there are some things that they clearly seem to like: Performing well at a good school, working in a clinic, having public service experience your 1L summer (instead of, say, a firm job), writing ability (can be demonstrated through LR or journal membership, or eventually publications when you're looking at post-school), and a sincere desire to work for the organization in question, and the specific section of that organization you are interested in. If you have more specific questions on my experience applying for this program, feel free to PM me and I'll do my best to answer.

Also: for those of you talking about judicial externships and SFPIF funding. Externships are exempt not because they're considered outside of public interest, but rather because outside funding is available. Namely, if you have a judicial externship (whether in the Chicago area or in another area of the country) you can take the judicial practicum course over the summer. Taking the course entitles you to a loan for summer living expenses (as does taking any course over the summer). SFPIF is designed to provide funding to people who have no other options. Thus, anyone attempting to get a SFPIF grant has to explore outside funding opportunities before a grant will be awarded. This necessarily excludes paying jobs, jobs that enable you to take a summer loan because they come along with a class, and any situation where the job is non-paying but you are awarded a grant for the summer from another organization.

[Horsefeathers]

Wondering if you have a sense of how NU grads are competing these days for BigFed jobs? I already put down my seat deposit at NU and am excited to start in the fall, but have got some serious cold feet about sticker and have zero interest in BigLaw.

While the LRAP is a real incentive for me, I realize that NU is not exactly a finishing school for high level federal legal jobs. Is it a case of "if there's a will, there's a way" - provided competitive class standing - or would I likely find one strike against me because of NU orientation? And what percentile is competetive for such jobs?

I'd appreciate any information, annectdotal, made-up, or otherwise.

Thanks!

I have a friend who is DOJ for her 2L summer, so I'll see what her thoughts on the matter are.

Thanks a lot. Looking forward to hearing her thoughts.

And I am that friend. I am working at the DOJ summer (and loving it). As far as I can tell, going to Northwestern in no way hurts you vis-a-vis getting a job with one of the major governmental organizations. Northwestern produces plenty of 1L DOJ people, 2L SLIP interns, and 3L honors program entrants. Plus I know many more people who are working for other governmental agencies this summer... off the top of my head I know people who are working (or have worked for) the DOJ, the SEC, the FTC, the FCC, and the EPA. And that doesn't take into account all of the federal clerks that come out of NU (important because many of the BigFed agencies like to hire ex-clerks).

The process for getting one of these jobs is admittedly a bit of a black box. I will say that there are some things that they clearly seem to like: Performing well at a good school, working in a clinic, having public service experience your 1L summer (instead of, say, a firm job), writing ability (can be demonstrated through LR or journal membership, or eventually publications when you're looking at post-school), and a sincere desire to work for the organization in question, and the specific section of that organization you are interested in. If you have more specific questions on my experience applying for this program, feel free to PM me and I'll do my best to answer.

Also: for those of you talking about judicial externships and SFPIF funding. Externships are exempt not because they're considered outside of public interest, but rather because outside funding is available. Namely, if you have a judicial externship (whether in the Chicago area or in another area of the country) you can take the judicial practicum course over the summer. Taking the course entitles you to a loan for summer living expenses (as does taking any course over the summer). SFPIF is designed to provide funding to people who have no other options. Thus, anyone attempting to get a SFPIF grant has to explore outside funding opportunities before a grant will be awarded. This necessarily excludes paying jobs, jobs that enable you to take a summer loan because they come along with a class, and any situation where the job is non-paying but you are awarded a grant for the summer from another organization.

Hmlee, thanks for the encouraging and just generally awesome response to my question. Can I ask you what you've enjoyed in particularly about the DOJ?

Also, I'm particularly interested in the Environmental Law clinic at NU. Do you know anyone who is involved with this, or who has done it and gone on to work in fed enviro law work? Generally, allowing that applications to BigFed are something of a black box, are there generalizations that could be made about necessary class rank or grades?

I sincerely appreciate your help. If this encounter was muddled by the its virtual nature, I'd buy you a beer.

[Aine]

Anyone at NU on the optional dental plan?? Can't tell if it is worth it, doesn't look like it covers much at all...

[bdubs]

Hey rising 2Ls, how are those bidlists coming along? Can you shed some light on the process for us incoming students

[Holly Golightly]

Hey rising 2Ls, how are those bidlists coming along? Can you shed some light on the process for us incoming students

Bidlists suck. OCI sucks. Firms suck.

[09042014]

Hey rising 2Ls, how are those bidlists coming along? Can you shed some light on the process for us incoming students

Bidlists suck. OCI sucks. Firms suck.

I can confirm this. Bidlists are constructed by taking data with super lower sample rate (because 3Ls love fucking us without lube) and then randomly throwing darts at them.

[bjsesq]

Hey rising 2Ls, how are those bidlists coming along? Can you shed some light on the process for us incoming students

Bidlists suck. OCI sucks. Firms suck.

I can confirm this. Bidlists are constructed by taking data with super lower sample rate (because 3Ls love fucking us without lube) and then randomly throwing darts at them.

Thanks, class of 2012. Thanks a lot.

[rinkrat19]

Hey rising 2Ls, how are those bidlists coming along? Can you shed some light on the process for us incoming students

Bidlists suck. OCI sucks. Firms suck.

I can confirm this. Bidlists are constructed by taking data with super lower sample rate (because 3Ls love fucking us without lube) and then randomly throwing darts at them.

Thanks, class of 2012. Thanks a lot.

So you guys are going to be AWESOMELY HELPFUL to underclassmen when it's your turn, right?