Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions Forum

[094320]

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[tomwatts]

Thanks. Im guessing its 2L that actually prepares you to be a summer associate.

Nope. Pretty much nothing in law school prepares you to work at a law firm.

+1

Yeah, the idea of law school prepping you for life at a law firm is sort of ludicrous. You'll understand once you get there. Some classes *might* be helpful, but honestly, on-the-job learning is not that bad/hard. I've had to do a lot of work in a specific area this summer in which I have no background and have taken no relevant classes, but you pick it up pretty quickly. Seriously don't worry about it. I also didn't mind 8-hour exams. I found I had time to do things like eat lunch, shower, and even nap for one of them.

Just to elaborate on the above...

I was a little surprised to learn that the law school model that is most widespread today (the Langdellian model that started at Harvard in 1870) was deliberately designed not to prepare students for law practice. The goal was to learn the theory of the law, in contrast to the practical learning that you would get if you were an apprentice to a lawyer for several years. They immediately started (controversially, at the time) hiring law professors who'd never practiced law a day in their lives (notably Ames).

Clinical legal education, etc., which you get in 2L and 3L years, along with moot court (2L and 3L), student practice organizations (can start in 1L), and some other things can get you a little bit of "experience" in something that resembles litigation, I'm told. But these are the exception. Most of what you do in law school is intentionally not designed to teach you anything practical for law firm work.

(Also, History of Legal Education is an awesome class.)

[thomaspaine766]

Searching through previous threads, there doesn't really seem to be a consensus about work experience prior to law school, except that it is a plus in OCI. For a k-JD like me, does having zero WE actively hurt me at OCI--assuming good grades and good interviewing skills--or is it more of an extra factor that they look at in addition to Grades/Personality? Is a V5 or V10 impossible without work experience?

[fatduck]

anyone taken advanced legal writing? did you think it was helpful?

[ph14]

Searching through previous threads, there doesn't really seem to be a consensus about work experience prior to law school, except that it is a plus in OCI. For a k-JD like me, does having zero WE actively hurt me at OCI--assuming good grades and good interviewing skills--or is it more of an extra factor that they look at in addition to Grades/Personality? Is a V5 or V10 impossible without work experience?

Grades trump work experience by miles. It's extremely common for qualified (grade-wise) candidates to get V5/V10 firms without any work experience (not that you should necessarily think about OCI in terms of Vault ranking). WE is something that can help you outperform what your grades might suggest, somewhat similar to law school admissions, but perhaps a bit more valuable than it was for getting into schools (minus Northwestern).

Not having WE will not actively hurt you at OCI. It's more of an extra factor. Probably would be most important if you were a bit lower in the class and needed a little help. But don't stress about being a K-JD, probably 1/3 of HLS is, and most of those people will get great jobs. Focus on getting good grades 1L year.

[Now]

Not having WE will not actively hurt you at OCI. It's more of an extra factor. Probably would be most important if you were a bit lower in the class and needed a little help. But don't stress about being a K-JD, probably 1/3 of HLS is, and most of those people will get great jobs. Focus on getting good grades 1L year.

If you screw up 1L year, lack WE, and are a mediocre interviewer, does this mean snagging a ~160K starting salary firm job is a long shot? What happens to the bottom of the class?

[englawyer]

Not having WE will not actively hurt you at OCI. It's more of an extra factor. Probably would be most important if you were a bit lower in the class and needed a little help. But don't stress about being a K-JD, probably 1/3 of HLS is, and most of those people will get great jobs. Focus on getting good grades 1L year.

If you screw up 1L year, lack WE, and are a mediocre interviewer, does this mean snagging a ~160K starting salary firm job is a long shot? What happens to the bottom of the class?

long shot is a little dramatic, but its an uphill battle. also depends on your definition of "screw up". straight P for all of 1L is very low in the class but can still get a job at a lower ranked firm. if you try hard i think you can bank on at least straight P. LP is only 8% of each class and sometimes even less.

[PinkCow]

Hey all! Incoming transfer here. I looked through the pages and couldn't find much:

Does anybody have any recommendations re: ISPs for off-campus housing in Cambridge?

Right now, the only 2 options that I can find are Comcast and Verizon. Comcast has better speeds, but I hear they are an awful company. Thoughts/anecdotes?

[AllTheLawz]

Hey all! Incoming transfer here. I looked through the pages and couldn't find much:

Does anybody have any recommendations re: ISPs for off-campus housing in Cambridge?

Right now, the only 2 options that I can find are Comcast and Verizon. Comcast has better speeds, but I hear they are an awful company. Thoughts/anecdotes?

Those are the only two options if you are in the Harvard square area.. Comcast is significantly better. I cancelled my Verizon within a month. Have had zero problems with Comcast thus far.

[Now]

do you know of any harvard law students that participate in drop in aerobics classes? i am interested in doing aerobics at law school and may want to resume teaching after first semester craziness subsides. thanks!

[GeePee]

Hey all! Incoming transfer here. I looked through the pages and couldn't find much:

Does anybody have any recommendations re: ISPs for off-campus housing in Cambridge?

Right now, the only 2 options that I can find are Comcast and Verizon. Comcast has better speeds, but I hear they are an awful company. Thoughts/anecdotes?

Those are the only two options if you are in the Harvard square area.. Comcast is significantly better. I cancelled my Verizon within a month. Have had zero problems with Comcast thus far.

Couldn't disagree more. Comcast internet cuts out once an hour, they keep tacking on ridiculous fees (such that cable+internet is now >$200/mo., I didn't even pay that living in NY), and their customer service is quite poor.

FiOS is way more reliable, has comparable speeds in most areas (my current apartment has <1MbPS download speeds on comcast, I can't imagine Verizon being worse). Will be switching back to Verizon soon, like I used when I was in NY with zero problems. I have tried to give Comcast the benefit of the doubt, but they are absolutely miserable.

[fatduck]

FiOS

WHERE

[sharktankdean]

Is there a textbook list somewhere or do we get that when we find our section assignments?

[delusional]

Is there a textbook list somewhere or do we get that when we find our section assignments?

AFAIK, when you get your section assignments is the first time that you will be able to find out what textbooks you have. But the information will still not be available in a straightforward way directly to you. You will have to go to the Harvard Coop Bookstore website, and fill out the textbook ordering form, using your section number. (You don't have to order the books from them at that point. If/when you get them somewhere else, make sure you have the right edition. It would be a pity to spend $40 on a used book and then find out that you need the new edition, available September 3.

I don't remember the details, but it was a series of drop down menus, and it was vaguely intuitive. You enter something like "first year" in the first menu, then "section X" in the second, then the subject in the third. IIRC, the names of the menus don't exactly match the answers - like it says "course name" and the answer is "first year" then "subject" and the answer is "section X" then "professor" and the answer is "contracts". Or something.

[sharktankdean]

Is there a textbook list somewhere or do we get that when we find our section assignments?

AFAIK, when you get your section assignments is the first time that you will be able to find out what textbooks you have. But the information will still not be available in a straightforward way directly to you. You will have to go to the Harvard Coop Bookstore website, and fill out the textbook ordering form, using your section number. (You don't have to order the books from them at that point. If/when you get them somewhere else, make sure you have the right edition. It would be a pity to spend $40 on a used book and then find out that you need the new edition, available September 3.

I don't remember the details, but it was a series of drop down menus, and it was vaguely intuitive. You enter something like "first year" in the first menu, then "section X" in the second, then the subject in the third. IIRC, the names of the menus don't exactly match the answers - like it says "course name" and the answer is "first year" then "subject" and the answer is "section X" then "professor" and the answer is "contracts". Or something.

Thanks! Just checked the website (most books aren't available/displayed yet)...but saw the price of the torts and contracts textbooks..

[094320]

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[ignatiusr]

Anybody care to comment on the orientation experience? It looks like the first couple days are mandatory. I've never particularly enjoyed the meet and greet atmosphere of orientations; there always seems to be something a bit cheesy about it (forced introductions where you're asked to say something about yourself that is 'extraordinary,' etc). Did your HLS orientation follow that tradition, or was it more professional?

[ph14]

Anybody care to comment on the orientation experience? It looks like the first couple days are mandatory. I've never particularly enjoyed the meet and greet atmosphere of orientations; there always seems to be something a bit cheesy about it (forced introductions where you're asked to say something about yourself that is 'extraordinary,' etc). Did your HLS orientation follow that tradition, or was it more professional?

It's not a big deal, you'll meet everyone in your section quickly when class starts.

[BrendanD]

Thanks! Just checked the website (most books aren't available/displayed yet)...but saw the price of the torts and contracts textbooks..

Get the ISBN number off the Coop website and search it on Google. Unless the edition is new this semester, you can find good deals on Amazon, eBay, half.com, Law Books for Less, and BarristerBooks.

[delusional]

Anybody care to comment on the orientation experience? It looks like the first couple days are mandatory. I've never particularly enjoyed the meet and greet atmosphere of orientations; there always seems to be something a bit cheesy about it (forced introductions where you're asked to say something about yourself that is 'extraordinary,' etc). Did your HLS orientation follow that tradition, or was it more professional?

I broke two ribs during the team-building exercises. It was the worst three days of my life.

Kidding, it was fine. Just hanging out, moving from one low pressure situation to another as people get to know each other. No introduction crap, or anything like that scene in Legally Blonde.

[sharktankdean]

Anybody care to comment on the orientation experience? It looks like the first couple days are mandatory. I've never particularly enjoyed the meet and greet atmosphere of orientations; there always seems to be something a bit cheesy about it (forced introductions where you're asked to say something about yourself that is 'extraordinary,' etc). Did your HLS orientation follow that tradition, or was it more professional?

I broke two ribs during the team-building exercises. It was the worst three days of my life.

Kidding, it was fine. Just hanging out, moving from one low pressure situation to another as people get to know each other. No introduction crap, or anything like that scene in Legally Blonde.

lol..i have to be honest I was thinking the same thing

[tomwatts]

Anybody care to comment on the orientation experience? It looks like the first couple days are mandatory. I've never particularly enjoyed the meet and greet atmosphere of orientations; there always seems to be something a bit cheesy about it (forced introductions where you're asked to say something about yourself that is 'extraordinary,' etc). Did your HLS orientation follow that tradition, or was it more professional?

I broke two ribs during the team-building exercises. It was the worst three days of my life.

Kidding, it was fine. Just hanging out, moving from one low pressure situation to another as people get to know each other. No introduction crap, or anything like that scene in Legally Blonde.

lol..i have to be honest I was thinking the same thing

Though, to be fair, they show Legally Blonde on a huge screen outdoors within the first few days (weeks?) of the school year.

[fingerscrossedxx]

Do any of you know someone who has applied to do/is doing the joint program with Cambridge? I think I remember reading that only six students do this per year and was wondering how competitive it is. I know you've got to be accepted by Cambridge, which on its own shouldn't be a massive issue for me, if I've got decent grades at H (previous, good Oxbridge degree). But perhaps the program isn't all that popular, so the requirements (as to class rank at HLS) won't be that strict (top 10%/third/median?). Any insight is greatly appreciated!

bump also interested in this

[094320]

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[crystalized]

I just noticed that some of the casebooks come with CDs. Just wondering, what's on those CDs and were they ever used? I'm asking because my laptop doesn't have a CD drive, and wondering if I need to buy an external USB-powered CD/DVD reader.

Thanks!