Wake Law Students taking Questions!!! Forum

[girlonfire]

This is going to be a random few questions, but here goes:

1. Does anyone know of any fun things for my parents and sister to do while I am at ASD? They are coming with me to explore W-S and see the school on their own since they wanted to take a vacation to NC anyway (We are from FL and love vacationing throughout NC each year). Any "vacation-y" things for them to do?

2. Does anyone know of any doggie day cares or dog parks in the area? My chihuahua is coming with me and he is used to living with my parents two dogs and being around a lot of others so I want him to make some puppy friends. On that note, does anyone else have a dog that wants a new friend (LOL)? Any vet recommendations?

3. This is a more personal question... How has been people's experience with moving to a new state away from family and friends? I'm excited to move, but also a bit nervous, to be honest. How was the adjustment for those coming from out of state?

Thanks guys!! I hope to see some of you on Friday!

1. i dont know that there's a lot of "touristy" stuff to do in WS, but you could visit old salem, which is a really quaint little district downtown that has completely perserved an old Moravian neighborhood. There's an awesome bakery there, and you can see stuff like a gun smith, and a hat maker, and horses... it's kinda like williamsburg on a much much smaller scale. There's also pilot mountain, which is about 30 minutes away- it's a state park that I hear is nice. Other than that, you can walk down trade street and check out the few little art shops and stuff, and have lunch at a local place or something. There's also the Reynolda mansion which has an art museum and offers tours.

2. There are a couple of dog parks in town. I recommend the one just outside of downtown, called Washington, I think. Lots of law students have dogs, myself included. The park i recommended does not have a separated section for small dogs, so take that into consideration. There is another park, Horizons (i think) that offers a small section.

3. I moved here from the north east, and the adjustment hasnt been that hard. I suggest being social early on and establishing a good support system of friends here. That has been the thing that's made the transition easiest for me.

[YankeesFan]

3. This is a more personal question... How has been people's experience with moving to a new state away from family and friends? I'm excited to move, but also a bit nervous, to be honest. How was the adjustment for those coming from out of state?

I was a little worried about this especially since I don't have a "southern disposition" (I am a New Yorker), but barring a few social gaffes (I learned you can't curse that much in public without getting funny looks) the adjutment process if pretty easy. You will so busy with law school/law school related activities that you won't even have time to think about those things that are worrying you now.

[Gail]

3. This is a more personal question... How has been people's experience with moving to a new state away from family and friends? I'm excited to move, but also a bit nervous, to be honest. How was the adjustment for those coming from out of state?

I was a little worried about this especially since I don't have a "southern disposition" (I am a New Yorker), but barring a few social gaffes (I learned you can't curse that much in public without getting funny looks) the adjutment process if pretty easy. You will so busy with law school/law school related activities that you won't even have time to think about those things that are worrying you now.

Oh good. That will be fun.

EDIT: Wait. Do you mean souther thing in general or just North Carolina? In South Carolina I've heard people swear in fits.

[PirateCap'n]

3. This is a more personal question... How has been people's experience with moving to a new state away from family and friends? I'm excited to move, but also a bit nervous, to be honest. How was the adjustment for those coming from out of state?

I was a little worried about this especially since I don't have a "southern disposition" (I am a New Yorker), but barring a few social gaffes (I learned you can't curse that much in public without getting funny looks) the adjutment process if pretty easy. You will so busy with law school/law school related activities that you won't even have time to think about those things that are worrying you now.

Oh good. That will be fun.

EDIT: Wait. Do you mean souther thing in general or just North Carolina? In South Carolina I've heard people swear in fits.

Based on my experience being from NC, it's a southern thing in general. People expect you to act "decent" in public, and, especially for older southerners, having cussing fits where everyone can hear you isn't really something you should be doing in public. Even dropping a few cuss words in a typical conversation might get you a few quizzical looks from the people you're talking to unless they're good friends. If you're out in public around lots of people of all types (parents, kids, old people, people your own age), people are sometimes going to think it's really odd to have someone cursing around "mixed company."

I don't think you'll get any funny looks from people at the law school or people your own age for saying something since people of law school age are more used to it. However, the general public (such as if you're walking in downtown Winston or a park or wherever) will probably, at the very least, disapprove. I've often heard people with families and old people ask young people to watch their mouths for cussing a lot in public. That's just my personal experience though.

In any event, public decorum around old folks and families as far as what you say is probably fairly different from what you would encounter in NY or Philly or somewhere like that. Obviously, some words are worse than others and will get you looked at in a worse way than others might. I'm sure our resident northerners can speak on how different it is from the North though. I don't see any reason that you would have that much trouble just watching your mouth when you're out in public though, and I'm sure you'll be fine. Definitely not something that you need to worry about. I don't think we have a "pottymouth" patrol in Winston Salem (though I wouldn't be surprised if someone thinks it up eventually). Just use common sense.

[ash0117]

I'm from south Florida, where you get dirty looks for not having a potty mouth. I'm so truly excited to be an official southerner. Even though I'm from about as far south as you can get in the us- south Florida is way more like NY than north Carolina.

[tylercocinas]

Does anyone know anything about the apartments owned by Wake Forest? I believe they're called Wake Properties?

Some of my friends live there, they seem to like it. Do you have any specific questions that I could pass along?

Yes, thanks for your help. How have your friends' roommate experiences been? Do many law students generally live there?

[lmgrg12]

I am visiting Winston-Salem on Saturday, and as I am definently going to Wake, I will be looking for an apartment. Couple of questions: Does anybody live/know someone that lives in Sugar Creek Trace? Are they nice? And does someone have any suggestions (besides Crowne) of other nice apartements close to the school?

Thank you!

[el William]

This is going to be a random few questions, but here goes:

1. Does anyone know of any fun things for my parents and sister to do while I am at ASD? They are coming with me to explore W-S and see the school on their own since they wanted to take a vacation to NC anyway (We are from FL and love vacationing throughout NC each year). Any "vacation-y" things for them to do?

2. Does anyone know of any doggie day cares or dog parks in the area? My chihuahua is coming with me and he is used to living with my parents two dogs and being around a lot of others so I want him to make some puppy friends. On that note, does anyone else have a dog that wants a new friend (LOL)? Any vet recommendations?

3. This is a more personal question... How has been people's experience with moving to a new state away from family and friends? I'm excited to move, but also a bit nervous, to be honest. How was the adjustment for those coming from out of state?

Thanks guys!! I hope to see some of you on Friday!

Hey I live in Winston and love going to the dog parks in town. I live in the downtown area, but i go to Horizons Park more often. It's a short drive (10 min) from town and its way better. Less mud, bigger space, small dog area, hiking trails, clean water (during warm seasons).

[LBrown]

To current Wake students: Did any of you consider Washington & Lee while choosing a law school? If so, why did you choose Wake? I would appreciate any information or thoughts you could share with me!

[SteelyDan]

To current Wake students: Did any of you consider Washington & Lee while choosing a law school? If so, why did you choose Wake? I would appreciate any information or thoughts you could share with me!

Yes. Wake offerred me more money (of course that was on last year's scale), and I liked the atmosphere of Winston-Salem better than Lexington. I couldn't take the small rural town thing for three years, I would have gone crazy.

[ash0117]

Do any of you have suggestions or thoughts on 0L prep? On TLS, the conventional wisdom is that it is not necessary, but I read all the threads by successful students and they seem to have prepped to some level. What do you guys think?

Which classes do we take first semester 1L? Second semester 1L?

Also, this has probably been asked already but I don't have time to read 40+ pages so I'll ask again. What supplements do you guys recommend for each class, at least for the first semester?

Thanks!

[MattThiessen]

Do any of you have suggestions or thoughts on 0L prep? On TLS, the conventional wisdom is that it is not necessary, but I read all the threads by successful students and they seem to have prepped to some level. What do you guys think?

Which classes do we take first semester 1L? Second semester 1L?

Also, this has probably been asked already but I don't have time to read 40+ pages so I'll ask again. What supplements do you guys recommend for each class, at least for the first semester?

Thanks!

I didn't do anything for 0L prep, and I was fine. Just relax. Do fun stuff. Read something you want to read.

First semester 1L: Contracts, CrimLaw, Torts, Legal Writing & Research, and Civil Procedure I
Second Semester 1L: Contracts II, Conlaw, Property, CivPro II, Legal Writing & Research II

I haven't used any supplements. Some of the other people on here no doubt have used some. I think it will depend on a case by case basis and a professor by professor basis. Most professors will tell you what supplement they suggest.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

Do any of you have suggestions or thoughts on 0L prep? On TLS, the conventional wisdom is that it is not necessary, but I read all the threads by successful students and they seem to have prepped to some level. What do you guys think?

Which classes do we take first semester 1L? Second semester 1L?

Also, this has probably been asked already but I don't have time to read 40+ pages so I'll ask again. What supplements do you guys recommend for each class, at least for the first semester?

Thanks!

I did a little 0L prep and most of it was a colossal, retarded waste of time. That said- if you're gonna do something, then read Getting to Maybe. That sucker was pure gold for this guy.

Supplements will vary based on who your professor is and what casebook he uses. Chemerinsky for Con Law (second semester) is about the only universal "must have" supplement for 1L.

[tstyler98]

The library has most supplements on reserve, so you don't have to buy them. But I would recommend buying Chemerinsky's Constitutional Law supplement.

[Relientkate]

Do any of you have suggestions or thoughts on 0L prep? On TLS, the conventional wisdom is that it is not necessary, but I read all the threads by successful students and they seem to have prepped to some level. What do you guys think?

Which classes do we take first semester 1L? Second semester 1L?

Also, this has probably been asked already but I don't have time to read 40+ pages so I'll ask again. What supplements do you guys recommend for each class, at least for the first semester?

Thanks!

I read Getting to Maybe and 1L of a Ride, which isn't really "prep," but 1L of a Ride provides a good overview of what law school will be like and how to be successful. Getting to Maybe, imho, would be good to browse through over the summer, and then read around Fall Break to prepare for exams.

I did not, and do not recommend reading supplements before you begin... it's just not time-efficient. I recommend taking the summer to relax and work to save money for the school year.

[mmk33]

Regarding grades: what do current students think about the relationship between preparation/ability and grade performance (1L in particular). Earlier in this thread someone posted the cutoffs for grades, and it is something like 91.5 for top 10% and 88.6 for the top 25%, which seems to me a very narrow margin. With the median of 50% at 85.3, it seems that the top half of the class will be bunched within seven or eight points in terms of their average. And everyone agrees that grades are a huge determinant of job placement. So do you feel that grades are somewhat arbitrary, or their genuinely an enormous difference between the exam performance of someone who receives an 87 as opposed to someone who receives a 91 or 92?

[girlonfire]

Regarding grades: what do current students think about the relationship between preparation/ability and grade performance (1L in particular). Earlier in this thread someone posted the cutoffs for grades, and it is something like 91.5 for top 10% and 88.6 for the top 25%, which seems to me a very narrow margin. With the median of 50% at 85.3, it seems that the top half of the class will be bunched within seven or eight points in terms of their average. And everyone agrees that grades are a huge determinant of job placement. So do you feel that grades are somewhat arbitrary, or their genuinely an enormous difference between the exam performance of someone who receives an 87 as opposed to someone who receives a 91 or 92?

IMO, grades are pretty arbitrary. I don’t think they’re necessarily indicative of how well you know the material, how hard you worked, how intelligent you are, or how good of a lawyer you will be. Some people test better than others. Some people write an answer essay better than others. I find it thoroughly ridiculous to give out just one grade per semester based only on some essays and some multiple choice. I also think having a curve, in general, is utter bullshit.

I really think the difference between a 87 and a 90 could be as simple as a professor liking the way an answer is written more than another, or being annoyed by the use of an unapproved abbreviation. Grading, as many of my professors have openly admitted, is very very subjective.

As far as employment, generally higher gpas have better employment prospects, and I wouldn’t really argue against that. However, anecdotally, I’ve seen a lot of evidence to the contrary. I, for one, had offers for several (more than 5, less than 10) summer internships (only one was paid), and I didn’t send out a single transcript (nor was I asked to by any of the places I interviewed). Let me be clear, though, that I was looking ONLY for PI work and wasn’t the least bit concerned with getting paid this summer. & TBF, I have a strong resume for PI work and pretty good softs for the fields in which i was applying.
So i guess i would say that you should assess how important grades are according to the field you'd like to work in, the kinds of connections you have, how social/likeable you are, how good your resume/softs are, and where you want to work.

I personally have never been of the opinion that grades are paramount. They certainly matter, but I really don’t think they’re as important as TLS would have you believe...
...unless you want biglaw, and don’t have a relative/contact who can hire you. In that case, don’t listen to me at all. Grades are super important.

[Gail]

I personally have never been of the opinion that grades are paramount. They certainly matter, but I really don’t think they’re as important as TLS would have you believe...
...unless you want biglaw, and don’t have a relative/contact who can hire you. In that case, don’t listen to me at all. Grades are super important.

Eeep... How many people have that at Wake Forest? Is nepotism common?

[mmk33]

Does anyone know why there is employment data for the class of 2011 but no salary data? For the class of 2010 the information is very incomplete (62% reported their salary), but they posted that: http://career.law.wfu.edu/stats/

[Gail]

Does anyone know why there is employment data for the class of 2011 but no salary data? For the class of 2010 the information is very incomplete (62% reported their salary), but they posted that: http://career.law.wfu.edu/stats/

2011 isn't going to be very helpful. I think that year was an outlier and it represents the absolute worst.

That said, 2010 wasn't very good either. Out of 161 graduates only half were employed in anything worthwhile. Take out anyone in "business and industry," academia, school funded stuff, and short term, and only half. Only like 37% are in firms. I think that's what we can pretty much expect as the class of 2015.


So... Buyer beware.

[girlonfire]

I personally have never been of the opinion that grades are paramount. They certainly matter, but I really don’t think they’re as important as TLS would have you believe...
...unless you want biglaw, and don’t have a relative/contact who can hire you. In that case, don’t listen to me at all. Grades are super important.

Eeep... How many people have that at Wake Forest? Is nepotism common?

Nepotism is probably pretty common amongst lawyers. networking, who you know, and your 'social hustle' is a HUGE part of the legal profession. Contacts can be and usually are very important. I know a couple of ppl with a lawyer parent(s), and a few more with an important uncle/family friend, but that's to be expected everywhere. it's not specific to WFU. You cant really be surprised by this, can you?

[Relientkate]

Regarding grades: what do current students think about the relationship between preparation/ability and grade performance (1L in particular). Earlier in this thread someone posted the cutoffs for grades, and it is something like 91.5 for top 10% and 88.6 for the top 25%, which seems to me a very narrow margin. With the median of 50% at 85.3, it seems that the top half of the class will be bunched within seven or eight points in terms of their average. And everyone agrees that grades are a huge determinant of job placement. So do you feel that grades are somewhat arbitrary, or their genuinely an enormous difference between the exam performance of someone who receives an 87 as opposed to someone who receives a 91 or 92?

Yes, it really is a narrow margin. I wouldn't say that there's genuinely an enormous difference between someone who receives an 87 vs. a 92, but that's just the nature of the curve beast. I'm not sure if this is what you're asking in your first sentence, but I -do- think that if you find a way to work hard and efficiently, you can improve your performance. As far as job placement goes, like girlonfire said, networking is extremely important.

[Relientkate]

I personally have never been of the opinion that grades are paramount. They certainly matter, but I really don’t think they’re as important as TLS would have you believe...
...unless you want biglaw, and don’t have a relative/contact who can hire you. In that case, don’t listen to me at all. Grades are super important.

Eeep... How many people have that at Wake Forest? Is nepotism common?

Nepotism is probably pretty common amongst lawyers. networking, who you know, and your 'social hustle' is a HUGE part of the legal profession. Contacts can be and usually are very important. I know a couple of ppl with a lawyer parent(s), and a few more with an important uncle/family friend, but that's to be expected everywhere. it's not specific to WFU. You cant really be surprised by this, can you?

^^This. I'd venture that WFU has the same proportion of nepotism that you'll find at any law school in the country. If you are trying to get big law from wake and you don't have/obtain those connections, grades will become increasingly important.

[mmk33]

Regarding grades: what do current students think about the relationship between preparation/ability and grade performance (1L in particular). Earlier in this thread someone posted the cutoffs for grades, and it is something like 91.5 for top 10% and 88.6 for the top 25%, which seems to me a very narrow margin. With the median of 50% at 85.3, it seems that the top half of the class will be bunched within seven or eight points in terms of their average. And everyone agrees that grades are a huge determinant of job placement. So do you feel that grades are somewhat arbitrary, or their genuinely an enormous difference between the exam performance of someone who receives an 87 as opposed to someone who receives a 91 or 92?

Yes, it really is a narrow margin. I wouldn't say that there's genuinely an enormous difference between someone who receives an 87 vs. a 92, but that's just the nature of the curve beast. I'm not sure if this is what you're asking in your first sentence, but I -do- think that if you find a way to work hard and efficiently, you can improve your performance. As far as job placement goes, like girlonfire said, networking is extremely important.

This seems really crazy to me.

[Relientkate]

Regarding grades: what do current students think about the relationship between preparation/ability and grade performance (1L in particular). Earlier in this thread someone posted the cutoffs for grades, and it is something like 91.5 for top 10% and 88.6 for the top 25%, which seems to me a very narrow margin. With the median of 50% at 85.3, it seems that the top half of the class will be bunched within seven or eight points in terms of their average. And everyone agrees that grades are a huge determinant of job placement. So do you feel that grades are somewhat arbitrary, or their genuinely an enormous difference between the exam performance of someone who receives an 87 as opposed to someone who receives a 91 or 92?

Yes, it really is a narrow margin. I wouldn't say that there's genuinely an enormous difference between someone who receives an 87 vs. a 92, but that's just the nature of the curve beast. I'm not sure if this is what you're asking in your first sentence, but I -do- think that if you find a way to work hard and efficiently, you can improve your performance. As far as job placement goes, like girlonfire said, networking is extremely important.

This seems really crazy to me.

Which part?