Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum

[bananasplit19]

10,000th post in this thread. #datNorthwesternDifference.

[180asBreath]

Thanks chardee.

1. The $174,710.00 is the entirety of the 10 year loan ($120k principal + interest).
2. If I spent years 4 and 5 clerking, I would be on the hook for the entire $5063 IBR Payment during those years, but LRAP would apply and cover 75% of it during years 1-3 and 6-10, yes?
3. I definitely wouldn't assume I'd be able make the jump to biglaw. Was just putting forth a scenario.
4. I see where my thinking was misguided with going to the private sector early. So, if I used LRAP for 5 years and jumped to big law, I would owe ~$138k (The entirety of the 10 year loan: $174k less the $6300 I paid out of pocket for the five years and less the $30,330 that LRAP awarded me).

[lemons]

what's the etiquette for trying to get into a class off the waitlist? Should we just show up on the first day and sit in? Talk to the professor and let her know we are trying to get in off the waitlist?

[BaberhamLincoln]

Currently registered for 15 credits.
There's a 2 credit class I want to drop, but I am worried about having only 13 credits - feels like I'm going to kick myself later for that.
I'm not on journal nor interested in moot court, so I know that I need to do a 1-draft and 3-draft to fulfill my writing requirement. One of my classes will let me do a 2-draft for another credit (bringing me up to 14 if I drop that one class I want to drop), but is that silly to do a 2-draft since it doesn't meet either of those two requirements? Or am I reading this stupidly and it does meet the 1-draft? Do people ever do this?

Sorry if this question is super elementary and obvious.

[wojo98]

is that silly to do a 2-draft since it doesn't meet either of those two requirements

No, not at all. The "2-draft" counts as your "1-draft" (iirc) for graduation requirements. And even if it didn't, 80% of the assignment's work will be finishing the first draft - so for marginally more effort (just another iterative draft) you get 1) that extra credit and 2) a better paper (and likely a better grade) just by going through the motions.

[BaberhamLincoln]

is that silly to do a 2-draft since it doesn't meet either of those two requirements

No, not at all. The "2-draft" counts as your "1-draft" (iirc) for graduation requirements. And even if it didn't, 80% of the assignment's work will be finishing the first draft - so for marginally more effort (just another iterative draft) you get 1) that extra credit and 2) a better paper (and likely a better grade) just by going through the motions.

Thanks for the helpful and quick answer!


One more random/maybe neurotic question: At my 1L school we were told to average 14 credits per semester but it looks like doing the math you have to take 14.something credits per semester to graduate - so I guess we have to take one 15 credit semester at some point in time?
(just weighing pros and cons of dropping this one class or not)

[Desert Fox]

[BaberhamLincoln]

Take 15 now.

If I don't this semester, I will definitely next semester.

[rinkrat19]

Just gonna put this out there... only needing 10 credits my last term of law school was an excellent life decision. My friends who were taking 14+ mostly wanted to kill themselves, while I only had class 3 days per week. So I recommend doing whatever you gotta do to get that light last term. (In my case, I did a 1L summer practicum for 4 credits.)

[crumpetsandtea]

So, if I stay in PI for 10 years:

I will owe $174,710.00
I will pay $12,657.50 out of pocket
I will pay $60,660.00 that LRAP awards me
The feds will forgive the remaining ~$102,000

And it doesn't matter what the types of the loans are as long as I accepted NU's loan offerings and didn't refinance.

Sort of. You are right about your own out-of-pocket expenses, but wrong about the other numbers. Assuming LRAP worked out for you, you are correct in that you would really only ever be on the hook for 12.5ish K.

You are right that will owe $174,710.00 when you graduate. But, keep in mind that interest will be substantial. Typically, IBR payments do not cover interest, so barring help that 174 k is actually growing as time passes. Also, NU only helps with the interest in years 1 - 5, and they only help with some of it. The final balance of your loan could very well exceed 174 K after ten years, even as you pay down. Regardless of these numbers, the entire balance will be forgiven, whether you chip away and get it down to 125 K, or whether it balloons to 225 K. "You" will not pay the 60 K LRAP awards you. At least it is confusing to think about it that way. Basically, LRAP is just Northwestern paying your loans for you. The 12 K is the bit that you pitch in to help them do that.

A couple other things:

1. NU does not extend LRAP for clerking. So, if you secured a clerkship, you would be on the hook for your IBR that year. Then, assuming you went into the public sector afterwards, NU would start LRAP. Clerking DOES apply for PSLF, but NOT for LRAP.

2. It would be best if you do not assume that you will be able to jump from a DA's office to big law at will.

3. PSLF and LRAP are typically only beneficial if you complete them. 5 years of LRAP/PSLF is not 50% of 10 years of LRAP/PSLF. The value is in the forgiveness of the loans and NU helping you with IBR. IBR help by itself is useful, but relatively less so if you have what is effectively a mortgage hanging over your head.

I just want to add that Cindy Wilson told my class that PSLF was not continuous (aka you could clerk two years, do biglaw four years, then do eight years of PSLF work and qualify got PSLF). This is NOT TRUE. The ten years must be in consecutive payments. A break in PI work resets the clock.

Just FYI for people considering what they want to do.

[chardeemacdennis]

So, if I stay in PI for 10 years:

I will owe $174,710.00
I will pay $12,657.50 out of pocket
I will pay $60,660.00 that LRAP awards me
The feds will forgive the remaining ~$102,000

And it doesn't matter what the types of the loans are as long as I accepted NU's loan offerings and didn't refinance.

Sort of. You are right about your own out-of-pocket expenses, but wrong about the other numbers. Assuming LRAP worked out for you, you are correct in that you would really only ever be on the hook for 12.5ish K.

You are right that will owe $174,710.00 when you graduate. But, keep in mind that interest will be substantial. Typically, IBR payments do not cover interest, so barring help that 174 k is actually growing as time passes. Also, NU only helps with the interest in years 1 - 5, and they only help with some of it. The final balance of your loan could very well exceed 174 K after ten years, even as you pay down. Regardless of these numbers, the entire balance will be forgiven, whether you chip away and get it down to 125 K, or whether it balloons to 225 K. "You" will not pay the 60 K LRAP awards you. At least it is confusing to think about it that way. Basically, LRAP is just Northwestern paying your loans for you. The 12 K is the bit that you pitch in to help them do that.

A couple other things:

1. NU does not extend LRAP for clerking. So, if you secured a clerkship, you would be on the hook for your IBR that year. Then, assuming you went into the public sector afterwards, NU would start LRAP. Clerking DOES apply for PSLF, but NOT for LRAP.

2. It would be best if you do not assume that you will be able to jump from a DA's office to big law at will.

3. PSLF and LRAP are typically only beneficial if you complete them. 5 years of LRAP/PSLF is not 50% of 10 years of LRAP/PSLF. The value is in the forgiveness of the loans and NU helping you with IBR. IBR help by itself is useful, but relatively less so if you have what is effectively a mortgage hanging over your head.

I just want to add that Cindy Wilson told my class that PSLF was not continuous (aka you could clerk two years, do biglaw four years, then do eight years of PSLF work and qualify got PSLF). This is NOT TRUE. The ten years must be in consecutive payments. A break in PI work resets the clock.

Just FYI for people considering what they want to do.

I think you are wrong, actually:

"Q15 Must the required 120 separate, monthly payments for PSLF be consecutive payments?
A15 No. The payments do not have to be consecutive payments; but you must be employed by a qualifying
public service organization at the time you make each of the 120 qualifying payments."

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/sites/defa ... stions.pdf from https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loan ... orgiveness

[crumpetsandtea]

Huh. Then not one but two of the reps at my loan servicer straight up lied to me.

[Annihilist]

HLS student here; Does anybody have an outline for Brennan (Tax) that they're willing to share? Please and thank you!

[cookiejar1]

HLS student here; Does anybody have an outline for Brennan (Tax) that they're willing to share? Please and thank you!

PM'd.

[Chrstgtr]

I see this has been discussed in the past but nothing recently, is ITA not subject to the curve? If ITA isn't subject to the curve, are all class exempt from the curve or only Trial Advocacy?

[FinalDecision1]

.

[7777777]

Hey I was wondering if any older students or alumni could give some insight into commercial outlines/supplements. All we've been doing in my courses so far is reading cases from a casebook so I'm still feeling pretty lost in regards to the basic, general material. As the complexity of the cases is picking up I'm thinking it would help to have a more concise resource for the subject matter. I've been told the outline you need depends on your professor so does anyone have any thoughts for:

Torts with DiCola
Criminal with Turkheimer
CivPro with Redish
Contracts with Lupo?

If so I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

Redish: No supplement needed. Focus on parroting back his words. And, thoroughly read his articles that a TA will eventually give you.

[Cobretti]

Hey I was wondering if any older students or alumni could give some insight into commercial outlines/supplements. All we've been doing in my courses so far is reading cases from a casebook so I'm still feeling pretty lost in regards to the basic, general material. As the complexity of the cases is picking up I'm thinking it would help to have a more concise resource for the subject matter. I've been told the outline you need depends on your professor so does anyone have any thoughts for:

Torts with DiCola
Criminal with Turkheimer
CivPro with Redish
Contracts with Lupo?

If so I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

don't use commercial outlines, just get them from school outline banks. you should have a link to an apex outline bank.

[rinkrat19]

Hey I was wondering if any older students or alumni could give some insight into commercial outlines/supplements. All we've been doing in my courses so far is reading cases from a casebook so I'm still feeling pretty lost in regards to the basic, general material. As the complexity of the cases is picking up I'm thinking it would help to have a more concise resource for the subject matter. I've been told the outline you need depends on your professor so does anyone have any thoughts for:

Torts with DiCola
Criminal with Turkheimer
CivPro with Redish
Contracts with Lupo?

If so I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

don't use commercial outlines, just get them from school outline banks. you should have a link to an apex outline bank.

WLC, ALPASA, and journals (especially LR) have outline banks too.

[FinalDecision1]

.

[Chrstgtr]

Thanks for both of your responses, Redish just sent us one of his own articles as "optional reading" so that was a timely reply.

In terms of the school outline bank, they haven't mentioned this before. Is this something that's accessed online?

APEX has an outline bank. They will give you a link to it once you should actually begin to think about outlining. Calm down for now.

[cookiejar1]

Affinity groups and practice area specific groups (i.e., IPLS for IP outlines) will have solid banks too so definitely sign up for that.

[atx2bma]

Another HLS student here, seeking outlines or old exam answers from Brennan's Tax class. If anyone is willing to share or trade, I'd be very appreciative! Thanks!

[itsme123]

Is there any reason why I would take a 2-draft writing course? I am NOT on a journal.

[rinkrat19]

Is there any reason why I would take a 2-draft writing course? I am NOT on a journal.

It's worth an extra credit for very little extra work; you just have to start writing a bit earlier to get a first draft done instead of waiting until the last minute like everyone does for a 1-draft.