Really Bad Grades 1st Semester Forum

[TheSpanishMain]

I'll see if I can withdraw and avoid the F's, but I believe it's too late now.
Why would this even matter for admission to a master's program?

No dude, your plan was perfect. Just never show up again. Make them wonder if you got hit by a bus or something.

[pancakes3]

higher ed, and law school in general, isn't about providing you training. it's to signal to employers that you're capable of being trained competently and do good work when hired. the stakes are higher when the pay is higher.

your school, classes, and GPA signal that you are able to take raw, foreign information, internalize it in a relatively short period of time, and you're able to consistently do this spanning multiple semesters for different classes/subjects that are relevant and translatable to what you will be asked to learn while on the job.

you pay premiums to schools for the benefit of this signal and you pay higher premiums to schools where the signal speaks louder and carries more weight than other institutions.

a boat of f's is a signal. how other professions interpret that signal may vary but you can't completely dismiss it.

[asdfdfdfadfas]

higher ed, and law school in general, isn't about providing you training. it's to signal to employers that you're capable of being trained competently and do good work when hired. the stakes are higher when the pay is higher.

your school, classes, and GPA signal that you are able to take raw, foreign information, internalize it in a relatively short period of time, and you're able to consistently do this spanning multiple semesters for different classes/subjects that are relevant and translatable to what you will be asked to learn while on the job.

you pay premiums to schools for the benefit of this signal and you pay higher premiums to schools where the signal speaks louder and carries more weight than other institutions.

a boat of f's is a signal. how other professions interpret that signal may vary but you can't completely dismiss it.

Right, so you spend 7+ years of your life jumping through hoops to prove to these people you can handle their egregious job where they make you work 24/7 while learning information out of context and indebting yourself 150K+ in hopes of a slight chance of being able to MAYBE break even in 4-5 years at the earliest? Lol..... This is a scam for 99% of people. It's a bubble.

Plus, how is that an incentive to do well? Any reasonable person will say hey this is B.S. Why should I care about this? I would argue that is a more important personality trait to be "successful" in the real world than simply doing what you are told.

The working world is nothing like academia.

[zhenders]

OP, maybe everyone here is being so nice because you seem so meek and helpless. Seriously, take some initiative. How can you even consider just not attending any longer and taking a load of Fs? This doesn't make you sound like you have a forgivable lack of direction -- it makes you sound like a privileged, clueless, lazy asshole.

You shouldn't spend anymore time on this thread. You should go and learn how to manage your shit. It's grown up time.

ETA: PLEASE don't go into teaching. Please God please. It's not for you (incase you thought you'd try your hand at that).

[A. Nony Mouse]

@asdfdfdfadfas - Accounting is another professional degree and not comparable to what I'm talking about, which is actual academic subjects. You don't take accounting for the educational experience, you take accounting to get a job. And yes, professors actually add value to the experience, unless they suck, which happens and is bad but not universal.

Debt is a separate issue from what an education is good for - I don't think people should have to go into the degree of debt a lot of higher ed requires today. But "will this get me a job" isn't the only measure of an education and learning to think critically is relevant to everything outside of class. It's also not about learning to "do what you're told."

(Again, this is distinct from law school. And I get that people want to get jobs, so go major in accounting or whatever will get you a job as you please, but it's way too limiting to say that the only purpose of education is to get a job.)

[jrass]

it's more an issue that a string of f's can't possibly be good, and once you get them you'll never be able to get them off.there's 0 risk in trying to get w's, and a possible benefit so from an economic/game theory standpoint: getting w's instead of f's is an "absolute good."

[zhenders]

it's more an issue that a string of f's can't possibly be good, and once you get them you'll never be able to get them off.there's 0 risk in trying to get w's, and a possible benefit so from an economic/game theory standpoint: getting w's instead of f's is an "absolute good."

Right. This is what makes me infuriated at this OP and makes me think she or he is not worth anyone's time. There is literally nothing any of us can do to help someone who has so little integrity and initiative that they can't even be bothered to walk into their registrar and withdraw.

[asdfdfdfadfas]

@asdfdfdfadfas - Accounting is another professional degree and not comparable to what I'm talking about, which is actual academic subjects. You don't take accounting for the educational experience, you take accounting to get a job. And yes, professors actually add value to the experience, unless they suck, which happens and is bad but not universal.

Debt is a separate issue from what an education is good for - I don't think people should have to go into the degree of debt a lot of higher ed requires today. But "will this get me a job" isn't the only measure of an education and learning to think critically is relevant to everything outside of class. It's also not about learning to "do what you're told."

(Again, this is distinct from law school. And I get that people want to get jobs, so go major in accounting or whatever will get you a job as you please, but it's way too limiting to say that the only purpose of education is to get a job.)

Theoretically, maybe. However, that isn't what is happening. People in the United States have 1.3 TRILLION dollars of student loan debt. So debt is not a separate issue from "education", as ultimately education of the sorts you are talking about have costs. This is basic Economics.

I don't think anyone graduates college feeling grateful for their educational experience while sitting in their mother's basement at 26 with large loan balances working at Mcdonalds knowing that at least they know the finer points of what Aristotle said 2000 years ago.


I am not making this up. I'd implore you to read some John Taylor Gato, Antthony Sutton, or Thomas Sowell.

Anyways, OP I'd be pleased you got the 40k a year, politely tell the school you are withdrawing and have decided to take your life in a new direction. It is the right thing to do given that they did give you scholarship money.

[pancakes3]

Well the *premise* of education, even if it is "pointless" liberal arts is to signal to people that you've learned it and you are fully capable to either work in the field, learn more about the field, or conduct your own research in the field.

Sounds like you're more pissed off at the execution where people are taking on debt to obtain this education. If that, then I'm not really sure what your position is other than you don't like the status quo.

[TheSpanishMain]

Leaving aside the whole education debate:

What was the in pro column for the "never showing up again" course of action? Like, what was the best case scenario there?

[Troubled1L]

Is Zhenders the dean of my law school? That guy's angry right now

I just thought not showing up would have the same effect as withdrawing without all of the paperwork and my school doesn't have its withdrawal policy posted online, so I was unclear.

[asdfdfdfadfas]

Well the *premise* of education, even if it is "pointless" liberal arts is to signal to people that you've learned it and you are fully capable to either work in the field, learn more about the field, or conduct your own research in the field.

Sounds like you're more pissed off at the execution where people are taking on debt to obtain this education. If that, then I'm not really sure what your position is other than you don't like the status quo.

Simply because you do well in an academic setting doesn't mean you are going to do well in the real world. I've seen people come out of top schools who just get smoked by guys from state schools or wherever.

Yeah, I feel bad for people who are suffering working jobs at Red Robin and have 100k in debt, or Doc review and starring down the possibility of being stuck with 150k in debt for a 40k a year job. I don't think it is in our societies best interest to largely in debt young people on the basis of "education".

At the end of the day, you have to learn the information in the context of your job whatever job that may be. Sitting around learning archaic theories, taking tests over fake hypothetical puzzle games, and being put into a standard bell curve purposefully so your professor can get tenure to indicate to those people that you are "capable" is simply a waste of time. Especially given now the vast majority of all of that is on the internet.

Teach the information so it can transition into what people want to do and let people take the classes they want to take. In my example, I shouldn't have to sit through cost accounting to go become a Tax Accountant. It's completely nonsensical.

I am out, don't want to take over ops thread any more than we already have.

[TheSpanishMain]

And you didn't think to do any more digging? Maybe make a phone call? Send an email asking for clarification?

"Welp, a quick Google search didn't shed light on whether ghosting on law school would be an automatic withdrawal, so I guess I'm out of ideas."

You see why people think you're a helpless man-baby who isn't prepared to function as an adult?

[ronanOgara]

Is Zhenders the dean of my law school? That guy's angry right now

I just thought not showing up would have the same effect as withdrawing without all of the paperwork and my school doesn't have its withdrawal policy posted online, so I was unclear.

Lol. Just lol. Good luck dude.

[Troubled1L]

I just didn't think it was that much a of a big deal and I wasn't in the mood to call up the school. I needed time to recover from the eight months of the mixed emotions of law school.

[zhenders]

If you don't get it by now, no one here's going to convince you. Why don't you give any professional you know a call -- or hell, call your parents -- and ask them what they would think of someone who made a conscious decision to withdraw because law school wasn't for them, vs. someone who stopped showing up for class to avoid the paperwork. Take a poll.

These really are basics, man. I'm more floored than angry (although no doubt, when I think of the people at your school who busted their ass this year and are attending at sticker, I'm sure as hell angry on their behalves).

[Troubled1L]

My parents said that I made a wise decision because I have to do something I enjoy for a career. They also said a lot of what asfdsf said about law school being a scam.

[ronanOgara]

I just didn't think it was that much a of a big deal and I wasn't in the mood to call up the school. I needed time to recover from the eight months of the mixed emotions of law school.

Yeah it's not a big deal if you don't give a fuck that you'll be kicked out rather than you leaving on your own terms. I think any reasonable person can see the difference.

And good luck crafting an addendum explaining that you failed out of grad school because you didn't see the point of acting like a professional.

[ronanOgara]

My parents said that I made a wise decision because I have to do something I enjoy for a career. They also said a lot of what asfdsf said about law school being a scam.

Law school being a scam is totally irrelevant to your decision making.

[Troubled1L]

I was just telling Zhenders what my parents said because he asked. They told me the sky is the limit for me once I find something I have a passion for, so it made me feel better about my decision.

[ronanOgara]

I was just telling Zhenders what my parents said because he asked. They told me the sky is the limit for me once I find something I have a passion for, so it made me feel better about my decision.

Yea overall, you staying school isn't smart. I just disagree with how you went about it. It sounds like you haven't found your path yet. Good luck with whatever you do OP.

[Troubled1L]

Thank you. I'll try to correct this mistake today. Unfortunately, it's the study period and I think the first final is in two days, so I have a bad feeling they won't let me withdraw.

[Today]

I was just telling Zhenders what my parents said because he asked. They told me the sky is the limit for me once I find something I have a passion for, so it made me feel better about my decision.

I think Zhenders' point wasn't in regards to your future career, it was how you dealt with withdrawing. There is a minimum level of professionalism expected in this situation and you failed to meet that.

[jrass]

Thank you. I'll try to correct this mistake today. Unfortunately, it's the study period and I think the first final is in two days, so I have a bad feeling they won't let me withdraw.

Honestly if you just got outlines from friends to use for 2 hours before each exam and common sensed it, you'd prob still pull c's not knowing any material.

[A. Nony Mouse]

At the end of the day, you have to learn the information in the context of your job whatever job that may be. Sitting around learning archaic theories, taking tests over fake hypothetical puzzle games, and being put into a standard bell curve purposefully so your professor can get tenure to indicate to those people that you are "capable" is simply a waste of time. Especially given now the vast majority of all of that is on the internet.

My point is that this is a really narrow view of education, which is more than learning how to do your job, and overlooks the fact that someone who doesn't know about a subject is not in the best position to decide what they should be learning about it, even if "everything is on the Internet" (which I also don't think is true, at all).

But I'll stop too because it is away from the point.

OP, you need to not assume you can't do something, and instead go out and talk to people and find out how you can do what you need to do (of course the bigger problem is that you didn't think a string of Fs would be an issue that needed to be addressed).

Also I'm not sure what you have a passion for that is going to be congruent with a job that pays you money.