PI-Interested Judges? Forum

[Anonymous User]

HLS 2L here. Clerkship office told me to consider applying to PI-focused judges given my disappointing transcript (1 DS, 11 Hs, 4 Ps) and mid credentials (moot court, but no LR. On board of a major secondary journal; affinity org leadership).

Does anyone have any recommendations for PI-focused judges that I should prioritize applying to? Really hoping for a circuit court clerkship, but I also want to clerk on district eventually, so would be happy with either.

[Anonymous User]

Stranch is very focused on PI. She requires you to state your PI commitment in your cover letter. Other lefties include Montecalvo and Rikelman on the First Circuit, but they’re not exclusively PI hirers. Someone may want to correct me here, but I thought Graves on the Fifth Circuit was PI-oriented.

[Anonymous User]

Stranch is very focused on PI. She requires you to state your PI commitment in your cover letter. Other lefties include Montecalvo and Rikelman on the First Circuit, but they’re not exclusively PI hirers. Someone may want to correct me here, but I thought Graves on the Fifth Circuit was PI-oriented.

While maybe not as strong as Stranch, I'd assume Bloomekatz would look favorably upon PI in the Sixth. Berzon, Sung, Paez in the 9th are good contenders. Berner in the Fourth also states she prefers public interest oriented folks. On the Second circuit, Chin is a good bet, Perez and Robinson to a lesser extent.

[Anonymous User]

HLS 2L here. Clerkship office told me to consider applying to PI-focused judges given my disappointing transcript (1 DS, 11 Hs, 4 Ps) and mid credentials (moot court, but no LR. On board of a major secondary journal; affinity org leadership).

Does anyone have any recommendations for PI-focused judges that I should prioritize applying to? Really hoping for a circuit court clerkship, but I also want to clerk on district eventually, so would be happy with either.

Honestly if you apply broadly I think your grades will be enough for many circuits. If these were real classes, you'd be in the running with my COA judge.

[Anonymous User]

HLS 3L here clerking on district court after graduation. These aren't disappointing grades at all. You're out of the running for the top feeder judges and you'll have trouble breaking into certain courts like 2/9/DC (though not impossible), but your grades are solidly in the running for most judges (that is, as the above poster mentioned, assuming your transcript is filled with mostly "real" classes). I'm not saying you have an awesome shot at getting a circuit clerkship because they're so competitive, but there aren't a whole lot of judges who will look at your transcript and instantly eliminate you from the running.

[Anonymous User]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

[Anonymous User]

Jackson-Akiwumi on CA7 seems to like PI folks, and probably Maldonado as well given her background. And Forrest (a pretty-conservative-but-not-nuts Trump appointee) on CA9 also mentions a "commitment to public service" in her OSCAR postings, though my guess is that she might be thinking more government work than civil rights/lefty PI work. Otherwise just look at the judge's backgrounds - the Biden (and to a lesser extent, Obama) appointees who were public defenders/public interest lawyers will value PI more.

But also to get more consideration by PI judges, you actually have to demonstrate an interest in PI beyond just a 1L summer internship. Nothing you mentioned in your credentials would have struck my judges as PI-related (though of course you maybe just didn't feel a need to summarize your PI stuff, which is fair), and some of the judges who look favorably on PI work are still pretty grade-sensitive.

[siri949]

District Judge, but Kovner in EDNY has a 2028–29 OSCAR posting. She's also highly-credentialed and young, so definitely a 2d cir candidate if a Dem wins in 2028.

[Anonymous User]

District Judge, but Kovner in EDNY has a 2028–29 OSCAR posting. She's also highly-credentialed and young, so definitely a 2d cir candidate if a Dem wins in 2028.

Yes, the well-known conservative feeder Trump-appointed Kovner is definitely in the running for a Dem nomination to CA2!

[siri949]

District Judge, but Kovner in EDNY has a 2028–29 OSCAR posting. She's also highly-credentialed and young, so definitely a 2d cir candidate if a Dem wins in 2028.

Yes, the well-known conservative feeder Trump-appointed Kovner is definitely in the running for a Dem nomination to CA2!

Whoops! I was thinking of Nina Morrison, NOT Kovner. (And Morrison is not as young as I had remembered, so maybe strike the CA2 bit.) Thanks so much for the correction! Anyway OP, Morrison mentions PI in the posting, so if you're open to DJ's, there's one for you.

[Anonymous User]

Stranch is very focused on PI. She requires you to state your PI commitment in your cover letter. Other lefties include Montecalvo and Rikelman on the First Circuit, but they’re not exclusively PI hirers. Someone may want to correct me here, but I thought Graves on the Fifth Circuit was PI-oriented.

Stranch currently has an opening on OSCAR for the 2026-2027 term btw

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

HLS 2L here. Clerkship office told me to consider applying to PI-focused judges given my disappointing transcript (1 DS, 11 Hs, 4 Ps) and mid credentials (moot court, but no LR. On board of a major secondary journal; affinity org leadership).

Does anyone have any recommendations for PI-focused judges that I should prioritize applying to? Really hoping for a circuit court clerkship, but I also want to clerk on district eventually, so would be happy with either.

uhhhhh disappointing transcript? wtf lol

[Anonymous User]

HLS 2L here. Clerkship office told me to consider applying to PI-focused judges given my disappointing transcript (1 DS, 11 Hs, 4 Ps) and mid credentials (moot court, but no LR. On board of a major secondary journal; affinity org leadership).

Does anyone have any recommendations for PI-focused judges that I should prioritize applying to? Really hoping for a circuit court clerkship, but I also want to clerk on district eventually, so would be happy with either.

uhhhhh disappointing transcript? wtf lol

Got plenty of interviews with worse grades. Though I am on LR.

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

That’s overstating it. This transcript, especially without LR, would not make the first cut in my judge’s SDNY chambers. But generally agreed that the grades are solid.

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

That’s overstating it. This transcript, especially without LR, would not make the first cut in my judge’s SDNY chambers. But generally agreed that the grades are solid.

Idk who your judge is, but this is not true for most SDNY judges.

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

That’s overstating it. This transcript, especially without LR, would not make the first cut in my judge’s SDNY chambers. But generally agreed that the grades are solid.

Idk who your judge is, but this is not true for most SDNY judges.

Previous anon. Without getting into specifics, it’s not at all unsurprising to get HLS apps with near all H’s and multiple DS’s. OP’s transcript wouldn’t make it past the clerks.

I’d guess about half of SDNY would feel the same way. I agree various judges on the court would be fine with OP’s transcript, although some of those judges would be looking for other things (fedsoc for one, demonstrated PI interest for some, and so on).

Can someone from HLS confirm the top 15% estimate? It doesn’t seem accurate. Even if true, that’s 70-80 people at HLS.

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

That’s overstating it. This transcript, especially without LR, would not make the first cut in my judge’s SDNY chambers. But generally agreed that the grades are solid.

Idk who your judge is, but this is not true for most SDNY judges.

Previous anon. Without getting into specifics, it’s not at all unsurprising to get HLS apps with near all H’s and multiple DS’s. OP’s transcript wouldn’t make it past the clerks.

I’d guess about half of SDNY would feel the same way. I agree various judges on the court would be fine with OP’s transcript, although some of those judges would be looking for other things (fedsoc for one, demonstrated PI interest for some, and so on).

Can someone from HLS confirm the top 15% estimate? It doesn’t seem accurate. Even if true, that’s 70-80 people at HLS.

It's not a ridiculous estimate but it's probably closer to top 25% or so. Magna (top 10%) cutoff is usually around more DSs than Ps.

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

That’s overstating it. This transcript, especially without LR, would not make the first cut in my judge’s SDNY chambers. But generally agreed that the grades are solid.

Idk who your judge is, but this is not true for most SDNY judges.

Previous anon. Without getting into specifics, it’s not at all unsurprising to get HLS apps with near all H’s and multiple DS’s. OP’s transcript wouldn’t make it past the clerks.

I’d guess about half of SDNY would feel the same way. I agree various judges on the court would be fine with OP’s transcript, although some of those judges would be looking for other things (fedsoc for one, demonstrated PI interest for some, and so on).

Can someone from HLS confirm the top 15% estimate? It doesn’t seem accurate. Even if true, that’s 70-80 people at HLS.

I guess I just have to respectfully disagree with this as someone who clerked there and also routinely reviews applications of people who have clerked there. With the exception of judges like Oetken, Furman, Rakoff, etc... and then including all the senior judges, cum laude T14 SDNY clerks are a dime a dozen. Sure they probably have some other hook, but I if OP is top 15% at HLS his grades are like a fairly reasonable SDNY hire.

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

I think this is underestimating how competitive the federal appellate clerk applicant pool is. The general rule of thumb for HLS is that competitive applicants should have more DSs than Ps. My semi-feeder judge would usually look for applicants with significantly more DSs than Ps, e.g. top five percent plus, and ideally HLR or a good board position on a good secondary. Remember that the top ten percent at HLS is something like 50 students--you see a lot of them reviewing clerkship apps for competitive judges.

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

I think this is underestimating how competitive the federal appellate clerk applicant pool is. The general rule of thumb for HLS is that competitive applicants should have more DSs than Ps. My semi-feeder judge would usually look for applicants with significantly more DSs than Ps, e.g. top five percent plus, and ideally HLR or a good board position on a good secondary. Remember that the top ten percent at HLS is something like 50 students--you see a lot of them reviewing clerkship apps for competitive judges.

Poster for the original 15% comment. I think that the roughly 15% comment is fairly accurate depends on where the Ps were, but 25% would also be reasonable. To be honest it really comes down less to the grades and more to the class credits of the classes OPs DS and Ps were in and how spread out the Ps versus DS's were based on the silly way in which HLS calculates honors by averaging years rather than overall. Pretty arbitrary The GPA for magna (top 10%) is roughly 3.98 and the cutoff for cum laude (top 40%) varies year to year but is generally around 3.6-3.7. It is also really hard to gauge the between the grouping only by looking at 2Ls.

Nevertheless, my point remains the same. As someone who is clerking and hired for a semi-feeder judge, grades tend to be a rough threshold and not dispositive (using them otherwise would be silly and show a profound laziness in the hiring process unlikely to yield consistently good clerk hires). My original point was that the grades would not take OP out of the running and might put OP in a fairly safe spot to get a clerkship given the other factors listed such as PI-focus, moot court, affinity org leadership, and board membership of a major secondary journal (given OP's credentials I am guessing CR-CL or JOLT). If they had a resume that also had other markers such as big PI orgs like ACLU, LDF, Earthjustice, DOJ (certain departments), etc. that would also help, as would a good story if the clerk overcame major adversity rather than just being an Andover kid with parents who are lawyers. And of course recommenders can make a big difference. The hiring process is really just a mix of factors put in a bowl and different judges and clerks put different weights to different factors. And at the end of the day the stuff that could get you picked out of a pile may end up being pretty arbitrary.

As someone who is clerking and hired for a semi-feeder judge, grades tend to be a rough threshold and not dispositive (using them otherwise would be silly and show a profound laziness in the hiring process unlikely to yield consistently good clerk hires). Like another poster said Cum Laude SDNY clerks are a dime a dozen, and those grades would likely still keep OP in running for Oetken (depending on other factors), although Rakoff and Furman are probably out of the picture unless OP gets no more Ps and like 6 DSs over the next year and a half--which is unrealistic. Subramanian and Abrams too but that might also depend on third year performance if OP chooses to wait. But the judges listed are already some of the most competitive judges on the planet. Justices Jackson (an HLS cum laude grad), Thomas, Sotomayor, and Kavanaugh, aren't even as picky with grades as those judges.

The previously mentioned "general rule of thumb" involving More DSs than Ps to be competitive (which is just the same as requiring magna/greater than 4.0 GPA) is just incorrect. I know for a fact that there are tons of HLS federal appellate clerks who are cum laude and many who didn't graduate with honors. Some of the feeders/semi-feeders are easier to get with magna and a very, very small handful of group judges (like I previously indicated) may be out of reach--the number is probably closer to 10-20 than 5-6 which was a bit of an exaggeration. But the grades OP listed are well within the threshold for 95-98% of judges in the federal judiciary. AFAIK the grades OP listed would not put them completely out of reach for any judges in CA1, CA5 (at least that I know of), CA7, CA8, CA9 (although absent truly extraordinary circumstances 3-4 judges are effectively out of reach) or CA10. The grades would take OP definitively out of the running for like 2-3 judges in CA2, Bibas in CA3, Wilkinson in CA4, 2-3 judges in CA6, Grant in CA11, 2 judges in CADC (although most of the others would be very hard to get clerkships with absent extraordinary circumstances and those that aren't like Pan, Wilkins, and Childs you probably wouldn't want to clerk for anyways).

In short, the advice from OCS is pretty off-base given the information the OP gave. But as I pointed out in my original comment, there may have been something else the OP did that caused OCS to give advice like what OP said (or that was received in the way OP stated even if OCS did not intend for it to come across that way).

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

I think this is underestimating how competitive the federal appellate clerk applicant pool is. The general rule of thumb for HLS is that competitive applicants should have more DSs than Ps. My semi-feeder judge would usually look for applicants with significantly more DSs than Ps, e.g. top five percent plus, and ideally HLR or a good board position on a good secondary. Remember that the top ten percent at HLS is something like 50 students--you see a lot of them reviewing clerkship apps for competitive judges.

The truth is between these two. There are more than 5-6 judges completely out of reach grade wise, and you do not need more DSs than Ps to be a competitive applicant for a federal appellate clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

I think this is underestimating how competitive the federal appellate clerk applicant pool is. The general rule of thumb for HLS is that competitive applicants should have more DSs than Ps. My semi-feeder judge would usually look for applicants with significantly more DSs than Ps, e.g. top five percent plus, and ideally HLR or a good board position on a good secondary. Remember that the top ten percent at HLS is something like 50 students--you see a lot of them reviewing clerkship apps for competitive judges.

Poster for the original 15% comment. I think that the roughly 15% comment is fairly accurate depends on where the Ps were, but 25% would also be reasonable. To be honest it really comes down less to the grades and more to the class credits of the classes OPs DS and Ps were in and how spread out the Ps versus DS's were based on the silly way in which HLS calculates honors by averaging years rather than overall. Pretty arbitrary The GPA for magna (top 10%) is roughly 3.98 and the cutoff for cum laude (top 40%) varies year to year but is generally around 3.6-3.7. It is also really hard to gauge the between the grouping only by looking at 2Ls.

Nevertheless, my point remains the same. As someone who is clerking and hired for a semi-feeder judge, grades tend to be a rough threshold and not dispositive (using them otherwise would be silly and show a profound laziness in the hiring process unlikely to yield consistently good clerk hires). My original point was that the grades would not take OP out of the running and might put OP in a fairly safe spot to get a clerkship given the other factors listed such as PI-focus, moot court, affinity org leadership, and board membership of a major secondary journal (given OP's credentials I am guessing CR-CL or JOLT). If they had a resume that also had other markers such as big PI orgs like ACLU, LDF, Earthjustice, DOJ (certain departments), etc. that would also help, as would a good story if the clerk overcame major adversity rather than just being an Andover kid with parents who are lawyers. And of course recommenders can make a big difference. The hiring process is really just a mix of factors put in a bowl and different judges and clerks put different weights to different factors. And at the end of the day the stuff that could get you picked out of a pile may end up being pretty arbitrary.

As someone who is clerking and hired for a semi-feeder judge, grades tend to be a rough threshold and not dispositive (using them otherwise would be silly and show a profound laziness in the hiring process unlikely to yield consistently good clerk hires). Like another poster said Cum Laude SDNY clerks are a dime a dozen, and those grades would likely still keep OP in running for Oetken (depending on other factors), although Rakoff and Furman are probably out of the picture unless OP gets no more Ps and like 6 DSs over the next year and a half--which is unrealistic. Subramanian and Abrams too but that might also depend on third year performance if OP chooses to wait. But the judges listed are already some of the most competitive judges on the planet. Justices Jackson (an HLS cum laude grad), Thomas, Sotomayor, and Kavanaugh, aren't even as picky with grades as those judges.

The previously mentioned "general rule of thumb" involving More DSs than Ps to be competitive (which is just the same as requiring magna/greater than 4.0 GPA) is just incorrect. I know for a fact that there are tons of HLS federal appellate clerks who are cum laude and many who didn't graduate with honors. Some of the feeders/semi-feeders are easier to get with magna and a very, very small handful of group judges (like I previously indicated) may be out of reach--the number is probably closer to 10-20 than 5-6 which was a bit of an exaggeration. But the grades OP listed are well within the threshold for 95-98% of judges in the federal judiciary. AFAIK the grades OP listed would not put them completely out of reach for any judges in CA1, CA5 (at least that I know of), CA7, CA8, CA9 (although absent truly extraordinary circumstances 3-4 judges are effectively out of reach) or CA10. The grades would take OP definitively out of the running for like 2-3 judges in CA2, Bibas in CA3, Wilkinson in CA4, 2-3 judges in CA6, Grant in CA11, 2 judges in CADC (although most of the others would be very hard to get clerkships with absent extraordinary circumstances and those that aren't like Pan, Wilkins, and Childs you probably wouldn't want to clerk for anyways).

In short, the advice from OCS is pretty off-base given the information the OP gave. But as I pointed out in my original comment, there may have been something else the OP did that caused OCS to give advice like what OP said (or that was received in the way OP stated even if OCS did not intend for it to come across that way).

Out of curiosity, which CA2, CA9, and CADC clerkships are the ones you think that would be totally out of reach?

[Anonymous User]

[/i]

This seems like very strange advice coming from a clerkship office.

I agree, OP's grades are in roughly the top 15% of the class. To be honest, outside of 5-6 judges like Srinivasan and Boasberg, there shouldn't be any judge that is completely out of reach due to grades, and for most judges those grades should put the OP in a pretty comfortable position. Assuming the OP has strong rec letters, I don't imagine they will have much difficulty landing a clerkship. If OCS gave that advice--unless OP initially sent a list of 10-20 of the most selective judges--the advice they gave is pretty whack. To be fair, OCS's interests diverge slightly from the interests of students so I always found it helpful to take their advice with a grain of salt; their interest is to get student any clerkship, while a student may be more interested in a specific clerkship.

I think this is underestimating how competitive the federal appellate clerk applicant pool is. The general rule of thumb for HLS is that competitive applicants should have more DSs than Ps. My semi-feeder judge would usually look for applicants with significantly more DSs than Ps, e.g. top five percent plus, and ideally HLR or a good board position on a good secondary. Remember that the top ten percent at HLS is something like 50 students--you see a lot of them reviewing clerkship apps for competitive judges.

Poster for the original 15% comment. I think that the roughly 15% comment is fairly accurate depends on where the Ps were, but 25% would also be reasonable. To be honest it really comes down less to the grades and more to the class credits of the classes OPs DS and Ps were in and how spread out the Ps versus DS's were based on the silly way in which HLS calculates honors by averaging years rather than overall. Pretty arbitrary The GPA for magna (top 10%) is roughly 3.98 and the cutoff for cum laude (top 40%) varies year to year but is generally around 3.6-3.7. It is also really hard to gauge the between the grouping only by looking at 2Ls.

Nevertheless, my point remains the same. As someone who is clerking and hired for a semi-feeder judge, grades tend to be a rough threshold and not dispositive (using them otherwise would be silly and show a profound laziness in the hiring process unlikely to yield consistently good clerk hires). My original point was that the grades would not take OP out of the running and might put OP in a fairly safe spot to get a clerkship given the other factors listed such as PI-focus, moot court, affinity org leadership, and board membership of a major secondary journal (given OP's credentials I am guessing CR-CL or JOLT). If they had a resume that also had other markers such as big PI orgs like ACLU, LDF, Earthjustice, DOJ (certain departments), etc. that would also help, as would a good story if the clerk overcame major adversity rather than just being an Andover kid with parents who are lawyers. And of course recommenders can make a big difference. The hiring process is really just a mix of factors put in a bowl and different judges and clerks put different weights to different factors. And at the end of the day the stuff that could get you picked out of a pile may end up being pretty arbitrary.

As someone who is clerking and hired for a semi-feeder judge, grades tend to be a rough threshold and not dispositive (using them otherwise would be silly and show a profound laziness in the hiring process unlikely to yield consistently good clerk hires). Like another poster said Cum Laude SDNY clerks are a dime a dozen, and those grades would likely still keep OP in running for Oetken (depending on other factors), although Rakoff and Furman are probably out of the picture unless OP gets no more Ps and like 6 DSs over the next year and a half--which is unrealistic. Subramanian and Abrams too but that might also depend on third year performance if OP chooses to wait. But the judges listed are already some of the most competitive judges on the planet. Justices Jackson (an HLS cum laude grad), Thomas, Sotomayor, and Kavanaugh, aren't even as picky with grades as those judges.

The previously mentioned "general rule of thumb" involving More DSs than Ps to be competitive (which is just the same as requiring magna/greater than 4.0 GPA) is just incorrect. I know for a fact that there are tons of HLS federal appellate clerks who are cum laude and many who didn't graduate with honors. Some of the feeders/semi-feeders are easier to get with magna and a very, very small handful of group judges (like I previously indicated) may be out of reach--the number is probably closer to 10-20 than 5-6 which was a bit of an exaggeration. But the grades OP listed are well within the threshold for 95-98% of judges in the federal judiciary. AFAIK the grades OP listed would not put them completely out of reach for any judges in CA1, CA5 (at least that I know of), CA7, CA8, CA9 (although absent truly extraordinary circumstances 3-4 judges are effectively out of reach) or CA10. The grades would take OP definitively out of the running for like 2-3 judges in CA2, Bibas in CA3, Wilkinson in CA4, 2-3 judges in CA6, Grant in CA11, 2 judges in CADC (although most of the others would be very hard to get clerkships with absent extraordinary circumstances and those that aren't like Pan, Wilkins, and Childs you probably wouldn't want to clerk for anyways).

In short, the advice from OCS is pretty off-base given the information the OP gave. But as I pointed out in my original comment, there may have been something else the OP did that caused OCS to give advice like what OP said (or that was received in the way OP stated even if OCS did not intend for it to come across that way).

Cosign this completely. Great info.