Anyone feel like people are increasingly clerking for a much longer time Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone feel like over the years people are starting to clerk a ton. Only a few years ago I remember the most people clerked were two years or maybe 3 years if they also wanted to do state supreme court or one of their DJ's wanted two years (but even then it was rare to see two different circuit/ssc/district judges. Was just at a reception for clerks and there were so many people who clerked for multple circuit courts and sometimes these people who clerked for multiple circuit courts also had a district court or a state supreme court or something else bringing up their clerkship total judges to 3 or 4 (and even saw a fifth who did 2 DJs, 2 COAs, and one SSC). I wonder if this is a product of law schools pushing clerkships on people. I get the idea that clerking once or twice is always a good decision but IMO if you already have a circuit and district clerkship I don't get why clerking for another non-feeder circuit judge is a net benefit. I'm curious if I am wrong and missing something though.

[Anonymous User]

It is certainly a trend. I think there are a few factors.

1. Law schools push clerkships hard. Students are told to apply widely and not turn down offers. So they get multiple offers for different terms and accept them.

2. Young lawyers think more clerkships will snowball into better clerkships. This phenomenon applies beyond SCOTUS. People think: “if I clerk for this other District Judge/SSC Justice, maybe it will increase my chances of landing a fed COA clerkship.”

3. Success in our profession depends on networking far more than on merit. Young lawyers (perhaps reasonably) see a benefit in having more well-connected mentors in their corner.

[Anonymous User]

It is certainly a trend. I think there are a few factors.

1. Law schools push clerkships hard. Students are told to apply widely and not turn down offers. So they get multiple offers for different terms and accept them.

2. Young lawyers think more clerkships will snowball into better clerkships. This phenomenon applies beyond SCOTUS. People think: “if I clerk for this other District Judge/SSC Justice, maybe it will increase my chances of landing a fed COA clerkship.”

3. Success in our profession depends on networking far more than on merit. Young lawyers (perhaps reasonably) see a benefit in having more well-connected mentors in their corner.

I get all of these but (3). Surely one circuit is enough? Instinctively when I see the person with two circuit clerkships and a district court clerkship I guess intuitively I start to get concerned about their judgment if only slightly. I don't make the hiring decisions, though, so it is entirely plausible my instinct is just flat out wrong. And two is better than one because you can just stack mentors.

[Anonymous User]

I do not understand double circuit clerking, unless it's a clear play for SCOTUS with the second circuit clerkship being a feeder, secured some time after the non-feeder. My circuit judge did not consider applications from people who already had circuit clerkships, on the thinking that they'd already learned what they could from the experience and there were already fewer clerkships available than qualified applicants.

Doing both a district and circuit clerkship is very valuable if you can afford two years out of biglaw at the start of your career. They are entirely different jobs.

[Anonymous User]

I do not understand double circuit clerking, unless it's a clear play for SCOTUS with the second circuit clerkship being a feeder, secured some time after the non-feeder. My circuit judge did not consider applications from people who already had circuit clerkships, on the thinking that they'd already learned what they could from the experience and there were already fewer clerkships available than qualified applicants.

Doing both a district and circuit clerkship is very valuable if you can afford two years out of biglaw at the start of your career. They are entirely different jobs.

Doing a district and circuit clerkship helped me avoid BigLaw altogether and land my dream job. So I also recommend it, especially if you don’t care about working in private practice.

[Anonymous User]

Clerking is fun, being a junior attorney is not. It's not complicated.

[Wild Card]

One circuit is not enough. Cir. and Dist. are fundamentally differnt jobs, different roles, different responsibilities. You're essentially playing Cir. judge or Dist. judge for a whole year.

It's not just a gold star on your resume. It's an extremely rigorous, real job. It's the most challenging and satisfying job you'll have in your entire legal career, so why wouldn't you try to drag it out as long as you can? Simple as that.

Also, this is kind of embarassing, but a clerkship does not guarantee biglaw or bigfed or w/e. Some people clerk twice or three times because it's the only job they can get and they're hoping for a better cycle next time around.

[lavarman84]

One circuit is not enough. Cir. and Dist. are fundamentally differnt jobs, different roles, different responsibilities. You're essentially playing Cir. judge or Dist. judge for a whole year.

It's not just a gold star on your resume. It's an extremely rigorous, real job. It's the most challenging and satisfying job you'll have in your entire legal career, so why wouldn't you try to drag it out as long as you can? Simple as that.

Also, this is kind of embarassing, but a clerkship does not guarantee biglaw or bigfed or w/e. Some people clerk twice or three times because it's the only job they can get and they're hoping for a better cycle next time around.

That's not at all true. And there might be some folks who clerk again because the better options they wanted didn't materialize, that's not true for most of the people who do it.

[Anonymous User]

I used to also view it skeptically, but having had two fantastic clerkships and now being at fancy firm, I miss clerking. If you’re in a great chambers, it’s a fantastic job. Why not prolong it.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Want to clarify i'm not talking about clerking two times for different types of judges. I understand the benefit of doing a state and federal or an appellate and district. I'm more talking about the people who do three or four clerkships that stack the same type of court.

[Anonymous User]

Clerking more and more has certainly become a trend. It's weird to see folks who have clerked for 4 judges.
I understand though if that person is obviously making a play for SCOTUS or something.
I've met some folks who have done dist. ct., state ssc, fed coa, fed coa in all sorts of orders. I just don't see a huge advantage to doing that many and it makes me think you're either trying to get SCOTUS (which, totally understand) or you don't want to work.

I don't feel super passionate about the issue or anything and it doesn't really make me think too hard one way or the other.

[Wild Card]

OP here. Want to clarify i'm not talking about clerking two times for different types of judges. I understand the benefit of doing a state and federal or an appellate and district. I'm more talking about the people who do three or four clerkships that stack the same type of court.

Will repeat what I said above, that it's really, really hard to get a job as a lawyer. Or maybe as a litigator. Maybe the job that you really want, or a job you'd be willing to settle for.

So you take what you can get, and if you have the qualifications, sometimes that means a third or fourth clerkship, or a second clerkship in the same type of court.

Especially at the district level, the work is so intense that judges themselves may take what they can get in terms of hiring clerks. "OK, w/e, I just need someone who I know can do the job."

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Want to clarify i'm not talking about clerking two times for different types of judges. I understand the benefit of doing a state and federal or an appellate and district. I'm more talking about the people who do three or four clerkships that stack the same type of court.

Will repeat what I said above, that it's really, really hard to get a job as a lawyer. Or maybe as a litigator. Maybe the job that you really want, or a job you'd be willing to settle for.

So you take what you can get, and if you have the qualifications, sometimes that means a third or fourth clerkship, or a second clerkship in the same type of court.

Especially at the district level, the work is so intense that judges themselves may take what they can get in terms of hiring clerks. "OK, w/e, I just need someone who I know can do the job."

Maybe I’m just ignorant but I haven’t seen many (any?) people who fit this profile. This argument would make sense for state or A1 clerkships maybe. But you seem to be suggesting it’s also true for A3 clerkships. I have a hard time imagining there’s that many people who can get an A3 clerkship but can’t land biglaw. Maybe clerks in remote regions who got hired mostly due to local connections? But how many people can that possibly be?

But to add to the larger conversation I’ll throw in another reason I’ve seen people clerk multiple times. Some people want to preserve honors eligibility and land their first clerkship with a 1 year gap (and many fellowships are 2 years). So they end up looking for a second clerkship to fill it, even if they didn’t originally intend to clerk twice.

[Anonymous User]

Wrt to hiring people who’ve clerked multiple times, I get circuit court judges not wanting to hire someone who’s already done a circuit court clerkship, but I also agree with the above comment about some (esp. district court judges) liking to hire people with multiple clerkships b/c they know how the job works. So there are definitely various perspectives.

Some people just like clerking. Probably over 10 years ago now I met someone on their 4th clerkship. I know they had SSC, DCt, and COA, but can’t remember whether they then doubled up on DCt or COA. At the end of their clerkship they were going back home to work in their parent’s small firm in a rural state. They said that people wondered why they were clerking so much if they were going back home to the family firm and they said they just really liked the experience.

Sometimes people are angling for career clerkships. The career clerks I knew had all clerked for multiple judges, which was how they’d gotten known in that jdx and made themselves candidates for a career position. I don’t know if this fits anyone the OP was talking about, I think it’s harder to do now than when I was clerking, but it is out there.

I don’t think getting a job as a litigator, for someone with a DCt and COA clerkship, is *quite* as tough as the comment above suggests, unless you have a really narrow definition of acceptable jobs. But I do think logistics might lead to multiple clerkships of the same kind. Like you have a DCt but want COA and get an offer but for a later term, so you have a year to kill in between. It can be easier to find another clerkship than to get a new firm job for a year. Or your judge knows someone who’s looking for a clerk and wants to recommend you. Or you want to preserve your Honors eligibility so clerking is a better option than a firm job. Or you want to change markets so you get a clerkship to be able to network in a new place. Or you want to get into academia and think a clerkship will give you more time to write. Or your partner is doing a residency or fellowship or clerkship but will be moving elsewhere so you don’t want to take something permanent in your current location.

I agree there are people out there who probably think that if a clerkship is a brass ring, the more brass rings, the better. And I feel like there’s been discussion here about a phenomenon of FedSoc types doing multiple circuit clerkships. I kind of roll my eyes at that. But for a lot of people it’s probably more a combo of liking clerking and various life/logistical considerations.

(As for clerking being the most challenging and satisfying job you’ll have in your entire legal career - I’m a huge pro-clerking person, I really enjoyed mine and promote clerking to everyone considering it, but I think if you feel this way you should find a career clerkship or get into another profession. Because spending the rest of your career doing work you like less than what you did straight out of law school seems like a recipe for unhappiness.)