What are my chances for a CoA? Forum

[Dede93]

Hi all,

Looking for honest feedback. I am hoping to begin applying for CoA clerkships in the next few months, but I am concerned I am not a competitive candidate. Here are my credentials:

-CCN law school graduate; slightly above median and no journal
-4 years doing litigation in big law at a v5 firm
-MJ and DJ clerkships under my belt at SDNY/NDCAL/DDC

I am geographically limited to the CoA in the district where I am clerking/did my MJ/DJ clerkships (so 2d Cir./9th Cir./D.C. Cir.).

My concern is CoA clerkships are incredibly competitive, especially in the circuit I’m in, and I have no geographic flexibility because of my circumstances. Am I hamstrung by my ordinary grades and lack of journal experience?

Thanks very much.

[Anonymous User]

Have you talked to the judges you clerked for already?

[Anonymous User]

There is a disparity in competitiveness b/t DC Circuit and a 9th Circ. in Idaho…also, why a CoA clerkship at this point? You’ve been out of law school for 6 years at this point, right?

[Dede93]

Fair question. I would like to do a CoA clerkship to help me transition into appellate litigation.

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

Looking for honest feedback. I am hoping to begin applying for CoA clerkships in the next few months, but I am concerned I am not a competitive candidate. Here are my credentials:

-CCN law school graduate; slightly above median and no journal
-4 years doing litigation in big law at a v5 firm
-MJ and DJ clerkships under my belt at SDNY/NDCAL/DDC

I am geographically limited to the CoA in the district where I am clerking/did my MJ/DJ clerkships (so 2d Cir./9th Cir./D.C. Cir.).

My concern is CoA clerkships are incredibly competitive, especially in the circuit I’m in, and I have no geographic flexibility because of my circumstances. Am I hamstrung by my ordinary grades and lack of journal experience?

Thanks very much.

Never say never, but it'll probably be an uphill battle if you're limited to circuit judges in NY/SF/DC. Those judges are even more competitive than your typical CA2/CA9 judges because everybody wants to be in those cities, and there are more former SNDY/NDCA/DDC clerks than there are spots. My impression was that if you're not in Fed Soc (for Republican nominees) or a URM (for some Dem nominees), the circuit judges in those cities are pretty grade-sensitive because they get so many applications and have to narrow the pool somehow.

Still worth applying, as there might be some judges who'd want a clerk with more experience to balance out the ones just out of law school. I think Callahan on CA9 mostly hires experienced lawyers (though of course she's not in NDCA). And as another poster mentioned, best shot is probably asking your DJ/MJ (or any partners at your law firm) to make a call.

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

Looking for honest feedback. I am hoping to begin applying for CoA clerkships in the next few months, but I am concerned I am not a competitive candidate. Here are my credentials:

-CCN law school graduate; slightly above median and no journal
-4 years doing litigation in big law at a v5 firm
-MJ and DJ clerkships under my belt at SDNY/NDCAL/DDC

I am geographically limited to the CoA in the district where I am clerking/did my MJ/DJ clerkships (so 2d Cir./9th Cir./D.C. Cir.).

My concern is CoA clerkships are incredibly competitive, especially in the circuit I’m in, and I have no geographic flexibility because of my circumstances. Am I hamstrung by my ordinary grades and lack of journal experience?

Thanks very much.

Never say never, but it'll probably be an uphill battle if you're limited to circuit judges in NY/SF/DC. Those judges are even more competitive than your typical CA2/CA9/CADC judges because everybody wants to be in those cities, and there are more former SNDY/NDCA/DDC clerks than there are spots. My impression was that if you're not in Fed Soc (for Republican nominees) or a URM (for some Dem nominees), the circuit judges in those cities are pretty grade-sensitive because they get so many applications and have to narrow the pool somehow.

Still worth applying, as there might be some judges who'd want a clerk with more experience to balance out the ones just out of law school. I think Callahan on CA9 mostly hires experienced lawyers (though of course she's not in NDCA). And as another poster mentioned, best shot is probably asking your DJ/MJ (or any partners at your law firm) to make a call.

I'm sure this flexes as you get further out from law school, but I was at HLS and every single person from my class who clerked COA in NY/DC/SF either fell into one of those groups, graduated magna or had other idiosyncratic appeal (veteran, parent is influential, etc)

Not saying don't apply because that's silly. but very much willing to back how grade competitive it is.

Also, some judges in those cities are effectively off the table if you aren't fedsoc/don't have conservative bona fides (Menashi, Katsas, Rao, Walker, Bress), which narrows the options even further.

[Anonymous User]

I know median candidates at columbia and NYU who are clerking for recent Biden appointees in the 2d Cir. but they have public interest credentials. Don't really see any COAs happening with just general V5 lit experience. However, I'd keep an eye on recent appointments and see if they need any clerks to start immediately. You are a good candidate for that because you clerked twice already, have decent grades, have biglaw experience, and can (presumably) start immediately.

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Look I appreciate the hustle in shoving this in on every thread, but it doesn't work the way you think it does.

More to OP's question whatever your V5 is check if any COA judges (or their clerks) worked at that firm. That could provide an in. Once I worked at a firm that two of the clerks screening apps worked at and during the interview they mentioned that. Now I didn't end up getting the job, but i think that was prob because I had a bad iinterview or something.

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Look I appreciate the hustle in shoving this in on every thread, but it doesn't work the way you think it does.

More to OP's question whatever your V5 is check if any COA judges (or their clerks) worked at that firm. That could provide an in. Once I worked at a firm that two of the clerks screening apps worked at and during the interview they mentioned that. Now I didn't end up getting the job, but i think that was prob because I had a bad iinterview or something.

?

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

My homie, the workflow is not meaningfully different at Cravath from the other top flight firms haha. It might differ at WLRK due to leverage, but CSM (600) is comparably sized to S&C (650) and DPW (750).

All 3 will involve a mix of doc review and substantive work, which gets more substantive as you get more senior, as is the case at literally any comparably-sized, traditional model big firm.

This is such a weird hill to die on

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

My homie, the workflow is not meaningfully different at Cravath from the other top flight firms haha. It might differ at WLRK due to leverage, but CSM (600) is comparably sized to S&C (650) and DPW (750).

All 3 will involve a mix of doc review and substantive work, which gets more substantive as you get more senior, as is the case at literally any comparably-sized, traditional model big firm.

This is such a weird hill to die on

He's not giving real advice. There's this weird troll who tries to guerilla market a V2 designation in an attempt to lump Cravath with Wachtell. Best to not engage.

[Anonymous User]

Data point: I clerked for a very grade-sensitive CA9 judge and we would treat the firms mentioned here as interchangeable. Just my experience, but I think I would've felt ridiculous telling my judge that we should interview or hire one candidate over another based on "V2 experience."

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

My homie, the workflow is not meaningfully different at Cravath from the other top flight firms haha. It might differ at WLRK due to leverage, but CSM (600) is comparably sized to S&C (650) and DPW (750).

All 3 will involve a mix of doc review and substantive work, which gets more substantive as you get more senior, as is the case at literally any comparably-sized, traditional model big firm.

This is such a weird hill to die on

Hm? CSM has far fewer associates than the other two firms you mentioned. And has small teams courtesy of the rotation system. So they aren't comparably-sized, or comparable period. Not really on a hill, I'm just providing OP factual information and pointing out errors when I see them. Sorry if that offends you.

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

My homie, the workflow is not meaningfully different at Cravath from the other top flight firms haha. It might differ at WLRK due to leverage, but CSM (600) is comparably sized to S&C (650) and DPW (750).

All 3 will involve a mix of doc review and substantive work, which gets more substantive as you get more senior, as is the case at literally any comparably-sized, traditional model big firm.

This is such a weird hill to die on

Hm? CSM has far fewer associates than the other two firms you mentioned. And has small teams courtesy of the rotation system. So they aren't comparably-sized, or comparable period. Not really on a hill, I'm just providing OP factual information and pointing out errors when I see them. Sorry if that offends you.

Per firmprospects, Cravath has 123 litigation associates, S&C has 143 and DPW has 140. I am not sure that CSM associates are getting tons and tons more substantive work because the CSM litigation group is 14% smaller than those two other firms.

Not offended at all, but this is an advice thread and you're kinda just making claims

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

My homie, the workflow is not meaningfully different at Cravath from the other top flight firms haha. It might differ at WLRK due to leverage, but CSM (600) is comparably sized to S&C (650) and DPW (750).

All 3 will involve a mix of doc review and substantive work, which gets more substantive as you get more senior, as is the case at literally any comparably-sized, traditional model big firm.

This is such a weird hill to die on

Hm? CSM has far fewer associates than the other two firms you mentioned. And has small teams courtesy of the rotation system. So they aren't comparably-sized, or comparable period. Not really on a hill, I'm just providing OP factual information and pointing out errors when I see them. Sorry if that offends you.

Per firmprospects, Cravath has 123 litigation associates, S&C has 143 and DPW has 140. I am not sure that CSM associates are getting tons and tons more substantive work because the CSM litigation group is 14% smaller than those two other firms.

Not offended at all, but this is an advice thread and you're kinda just making claims

I think your information may be out of date. SullCrom has over 200 litigation associates and CSM a little over 100. I would not consider that comparably sized, as the former is twice as big as the latter.

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

My homie, the workflow is not meaningfully different at Cravath from the other top flight firms haha. It might differ at WLRK due to leverage, but CSM (600) is comparably sized to S&C (650) and DPW (750).

All 3 will involve a mix of doc review and substantive work, which gets more substantive as you get more senior, as is the case at literally any comparably-sized, traditional model big firm.

This is such a weird hill to die on

Hm? CSM has far fewer associates than the other two firms you mentioned. And has small teams courtesy of the rotation system. So they aren't comparably-sized, or comparable period. Not really on a hill, I'm just providing OP factual information and pointing out errors when I see them. Sorry if that offends you.

Per firmprospects, Cravath has 123 litigation associates, S&C has 143 and DPW has 140. I am not sure that CSM associates are getting tons and tons more substantive work because the CSM litigation group is 14% smaller than those two other firms.

Not offended at all, but this is an advice thread and you're kinda just making claims

I think your information may be out of date. SullCrom has over 200 litigation associates and CSM a little over 100. I would not consider that comparably sized, as the former is twice as big as the latter.

I think you might have forgotten to apply the NYC filter to SullCrom lol, 207 litigation associates firm-wide, 157 in NY, 143 when you remove lawyers listed as primarily located in other offices. DPW is 140 flat from the website. Cmon.

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

Different anon, there is no such thing as the V2, Wachtell stands above other corporate firms in terms of selectivity, prominence, and pay. Everyone knows this, please stop shilling

[Anonymous User]

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

My homie, the workflow is not meaningfully different at Cravath from the other top flight firms haha. It might differ at WLRK due to leverage, but CSM (600) is comparably sized to S&C (650) and DPW (750).

All 3 will involve a mix of doc review and substantive work, which gets more substantive as you get more senior, as is the case at literally any comparably-sized, traditional model big firm.

This is such a weird hill to die on

Hm? CSM has far fewer associates than the other two firms you mentioned. And has small teams courtesy of the rotation system. So they aren't comparably-sized, or comparable period. Not really on a hill, I'm just providing OP factual information and pointing out errors when I see them. Sorry if that offends you.

Per firmprospects, Cravath has 123 litigation associates, S&C has 143 and DPW has 140. I am not sure that CSM associates are getting tons and tons more substantive work because the CSM litigation group is 14% smaller than those two other firms.

Not offended at all, but this is an advice thread and you're kinda just making claims

I think your information may be out of date. SullCrom has over 200 litigation associates and CSM a little over 100. I would not consider that comparably sized, as the former is twice as big as the latter.

I think you might have forgotten to apply the NYC filter to SullCrom lol, 207 litigation associates firm-wide, 157 in NY, 143 when you remove lawyers listed as primarily located in other offices. DPW is 140 flat from the website. Cmon.

That was intentional. SullCrom's litigation associates are not working separately from their counterparts at other offices. Ask someone at SullCrom and they'll tell you they frequently work on teams of 10 or more lawyers. That's largely because of the lack of the rotation system. It also means they get less responsibility early on. To be clear, I'm not knocking SullCrom; it's a good firm. But it's definitely a stretch to compare the two.

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

Different anon, there is no such thing as the V2, Wachtell stands above other corporate firms in terms of selectivity, prominence, and pay. Everyone knows this, please stop shilling

Not trying to shill or anything, but aren't quality and breadth of work, early responsibility, prestige, and network important? If the answer is yes, as we know it is, the top two stand apart from the others. This is reflected in the rankings (regional, too). The V2 are always in a league of their own in terms of the raw score. I really am starting to think this is sour grapes and it's somewhat odd

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

Different anon, there is no such thing as the V2, Wachtell stands above other corporate firms in terms of selectivity, prominence, and pay. Everyone knows this, please stop shilling

Not trying to shill or anything, but aren't quality and breadth of work, early responsibility, prestige, and network important? If the answer is yes, as we know it is, the top two stand apart from the others. This is reflected in the rankings (regional, too). The V2 are always in a league of their own in terms of the raw score. I really am starting to think this is sour grapes and it's somewhat odd

New poster weighing in. In New York, Wachtell is in a tier of its own (along with Susman, if you include the boutiques). Cravath is indistinguishable from the other elite New York firms. If anything, for clerkships I would give the slight edge to S&C. Its New York office has a significantly higher percentage of former COA clerks than Cravath, and it has 9 SCOTUS clerks to Cravath's 1. Add in the free-market system and it is easier at S&C to network your way into a LOR or phone call from a target judge's former clerk. At Cravath, if your first rotation is with an unconnected securities litigator you're screwed.

[Anonymous User]

It's going to help that you've clerked twice before, went to a T6, and got decent grades. Obviously some honors would be better but your grades shouldn't hold you back too much. I think a lot of it will boil down to your biglaw experience. V5 firms are going to help, especially in NY. If it's Cravath/Wachtell, that's even better, but the fact that you just wrote "V5" leads me to conclude it's DPW or Sullcrom or the like. If so, that will still help but it's more common and less prestigious. Cast a wide net. Be open to a less competitive circuit.

Not that this super matters at all, but all of those firms are fairly degree of grade sensitive at CLS/NYU. Pretty unlikely that they are at any of them with median grades.

I also don't think Cravath vs DPW vs Latham vs Cleary vs whomstever top tier firm matters much to your clerkship chances. To the extent it does, it matters that there are people you have worked with that have connections to the judges, but there are former clerks for most of CA2 at most of the major NYC firms.

Maybe Wachtell helps, but also maybe people with the credentials to get Wachtell independently have the credentials to get good clerkships. Pretty impossible to parse

There is a degree of chicken or egg to this, but OP has already been at this V5 for a while. If it's one of the V2, that's top-flight work experience. If it's SullCrom or DPW, less so (think doc review galore)

Different anon, there is no such thing as the V2, Wachtell stands above other corporate firms in terms of selectivity, prominence, and pay. Everyone knows this, please stop shilling

Not trying to shill or anything, but aren't quality and breadth of work, early responsibility, prestige, and network important? If the answer is yes, as we know it is, the top two stand apart from the others. This is reflected in the rankings (regional, too). The V2 are always in a league of their own in terms of the raw score. I really am starting to think this is sour grapes and it's somewhat odd

New poster weighing in. In New York, Wachtell is in a tier of its own (along with Susman, if you include the boutiques). Cravath is indistinguishable from the other elite New York firms. If anything, for clerkships I would give the slight edge to S&C. Its New York office has a significantly higher percentage of former COA clerks than Cravath, and it has 9 SCOTUS clerks to Cravath's 1. Add in the free-market system and it is easier at S&C to network your way into a LOR or phone call from a target judge's former clerk. At Cravath, if your first rotation is with an unconnected securities litigator you're screwed.

I'm more junior so don't have as much insight but maybe it will be relevant to OP if he wants to return to his V5. Does having a circuit clerkship in a firm like DPW/S&C/Cravath produce any tangible career benefits or anything in the way you are treated there that would make it worth clerking a third year or leaving to clerk.

[Dede93]

OP here. It’s not about returning to my old firm. It’s about transitioning to appellate litigation (that would be the dream scenario).

I’m wondering what my likelihood would be if I were able to apply to less competitive CoAs. I am geographically limited currently. But in the event I can make myself more flexible, perhaps that would be the way to go.