How do you know which judges your grades align with? Forum

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How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:01 am

Starting to compile a list of judges (federal district and CoA) and curious as to how you know when a judge is a reach or someone your grades are on par for. Word of mouth? Vibes of the court overall? Am I overthinking, since I'll send out so many applications anyway that this doesn't really matter? Thanks!

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:33 pm

Your school should have some sort of resource for this. At NYU, for example, there is a judicial clerkship appendix that lists the 25th/50th/75th percentile GPAs for students who clerked on each court.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:01 am
Starting to compile a list of judges (federal district and CoA) and curious as to how you know when a judge is a reach or someone your grades are on par for. Word of mouth? Vibes of the court overall? Am I overthinking, since I'll send out so many applications anyway that this doesn't really matter? Thanks!
Check with your professors who are in the know. I went to one of mine and he was able to give me a ballpark of who I was competitive for and who I wasn’t. There is a certain level of haze, though, so you never truly know. Maybe your application sticks out to a judge for whatever reasons.

In general, if you’re reasonably competitive and apply broadly you will find something.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm

My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 15, 2024 8:45 am

My two cents is just apply broadly. There aren't that many judges who will never hire below a certain GPA, and the time you spend figuring out who they are is much better spent writing additional cover letters.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 15, 2024 9:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 8:45 am
My two cents is just apply broadly. There aren't that many judges who will never hire below a certain GPA, and the time you spend figuring out who they are is much better spent writing additional cover letters.
I agree with this. Sure, check with your school if they have this info, but until/unless you hit the application cap on OSCAR, I don't think there's much point in ruling yourself out when the cost of any one additional application is so low. Judges often put desired GPA ranges in their OSCAR postings, but unless there's a really specific comment that people below X GPA NEED NOT APPLY!!!, I don't think you should use that to rule yourself out, either.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
Is this common? We have nothing like this at my (T14) school…

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:37 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
Is this common? We have nothing like this at my (T14) school…
I think it’s just an NYU thing, and because of that, I doubt it’s very accurate for judges outside of the New York metro.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:22 pm

Agreed with the above that the NYU appendix isn’t necessarily that reliable outside of courts where lots of NYU students wind up clerking (New York metro area as well as most, but not all COAs). It is also not judge specific, which means that it doesn’t distinguish feeders from non-feeders.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:07 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:37 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
Is this common? We have nothing like this at my (T14) school…
I think it’s just an NYU thing, and because of that, I doubt it’s very accurate for judges outside of the New York metro.
Yeah SLS has nothing like this (though they definitely track the data on # of Hs/book prizes).

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:37 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
Is this common? We have nothing like this at my (T14) school…
At one of MVPB, there's a database of surveys for judge interviews that people can fill out. One of the questions is your class rank, so you can generally get a sense of what grades are needed per judge. What NYU is offering is definitely more precise, but I've never seen large deviation in our surveys.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 15, 2024 9:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:09 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:07 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:37 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
Is this common? We have nothing like this at my (T14) school…
I think it’s just an NYU thing, and because of that, I doubt it’s very accurate for judges outside of the New York metro.
Yeah SLS has nothing like this (though they definitely track the data on # of Hs/book prizes).
Some professors at SLS follow these things closely and will be candid about who you are/aren't competitive with.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428449
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 9:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:09 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:07 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:37 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
Is this common? We have nothing like this at my (T14) school…
I think it’s just an NYU thing, and because of that, I doubt it’s very accurate for judges outside of the New York metro.
Yeah SLS has nothing like this (though they definitely track the data on # of Hs/book prizes).
Some professors at SLS follow these things closely and will be candid about who you are/aren't competitive with.
Yep, I too had my McConnell sit-down. Was actually extremely helpful.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:37 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
Is this common? We have nothing like this at my (T14) school…
Nothing like that at HLS, but feel like that is sort of to be expected given how intentional the school is in obscuring class ranking lol.

It's mostly addressed informally. Fedsoc fastidiously tracks for members and there are a few conservative profs that have a reputation for being candid on someone's chances.

ACS does not track (lol shocker, shit infrastructure!). The left leaning power recommenders are on the older side and seem more focused on pushing candidates they like to judges they have personal relationships with (as opposed to giving advice on matching/targeting), so I'm not really sure where left leaning students get this info. I was in the second category and felt completely lost.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:11 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:37 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
Is this common? We have nothing like this at my (T14) school…
Nothing like that at HLS, but feel like that is sort of to be expected given how intentional the school is in obscuring class ranking lol.

It's mostly addressed informally. Fedsoc fastidiously tracks for members and there are a few conservative profs that have a reputation for being candid on someone's chances.

ACS does not track (lol shocker, shit infrastructure!). The left leaning power recommenders are on the older side and seem more focused on pushing candidates they like to judges they have personal relationships with (as opposed to giving advice on matching/targeting), so I'm not really sure where left leaning students get this info. I was in the second category and felt completely lost.
Also in the 2nd category at HLS and going through this now. How did you end up figuring it out?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:09 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:11 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:37 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
Is this common? We have nothing like this at my (T14) school…
Nothing like that at HLS, but feel like that is sort of to be expected given how intentional the school is in obscuring class ranking lol.

It's mostly addressed informally. Fedsoc fastidiously tracks for members and there are a few conservative profs that have a reputation for being candid on someone's chances.

ACS does not track (lol shocker, shit infrastructure!). The left leaning power recommenders are on the older side and seem more focused on pushing candidates they like to judges they have personal relationships with (as opposed to giving advice on matching/targeting), so I'm not really sure where left leaning students get this info. I was in the second category and felt completely lost.
Also in the 2nd category at HLS and going through this now. How did you end up figuring it out?
We don't have the GPA disclosure at NDLS but we do have a list of all ppl who have ever got federal clerkships and with which judges, and you can easily cross-reference that with graduation honors/law review membership/etc.

Plus the profs are very candid about to whom you should apply given your grades

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
As a former NYU student our appendix with gpas if famously unreliable and not that good (way too optimistic). It's an assortment of median gpas for people who have accepted offers to clerk and therefore has a lot of survivorship bias. Wouldn't rely on it to establish the gpa needed. It's best for seeing who clerked for whom and why. The best way to figure this out is ask a trusted Professor or, alternatively, just to apply to everyone and let the judge's pick for you.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:09 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:11 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:37 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:03 pm
My school, NYU, has a comprehensive database full of very detailed statistics about the GPAs of people who got interviews and offers for every district and circuit, and some state. Basically the more desirable the area, the higher the gpa.
Is this common? We have nothing like this at my (T14) school…
Nothing like that at HLS, but feel like that is sort of to be expected given how intentional the school is in obscuring class ranking lol.

It's mostly addressed informally. Fedsoc fastidiously tracks for members and there are a few conservative profs that have a reputation for being candid on someone's chances.

ACS does not track (lol shocker, shit infrastructure!). The left leaning power recommenders are on the older side and seem more focused on pushing candidates they like to judges they have personal relationships with (as opposed to giving advice on matching/targeting), so I'm not really sure where left leaning students get this info. I was in the second category and felt completely lost.
Also in the 2nd category at HLS and going through this now. How did you end up figuring it out?
Sorry to be bearer of bad news but I didn't. Had great but not great enough grades and lacked power recommender support, did a poor job approximating how competitive I was, applied too high and struck out.

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Re: How do you know which judges your grades align with?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:21 am

If you go to UVA talk to Schwartzman, he will be very candid about which judges have hired students with resumes similar to yours.

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