Should I Clerk Again? Forum

[Anonymous User]

SLS grad currently clerking for a conservative COA judge on the Ninth Circuit. Transcript consists of 80% Hs and a few book prizes. Interested in commercial litigation and academia (have a couple of publications). Conservative, but not a Fed Soc member.

I’ve had a blast clerking. The only bummer is how little commercial litigation we get on Ninth. With that in mind, I’m looking into clerking again, this time on the Second Circuit. My understanding is that I’d likely be doing a couple more years of practice before clerking again, given how far out hiring has gone. My preference would be to clerk for one of the Trump appointees in the city (e.g., Sullivan, Park, or Menashi).

What gives me pause are my preference for private over public law, my lack of Fed Soc connections, and potentially my grades (considering how competitive these posts are). Based on my vital statistics, is it worth shooting my shot?

[Anonymous User]

My honest response is no. There is a trend of grads (especially conservative grads) who clerk for two COA judges for some reason and I do not really understand why and find it somewhat dumb unless you're gunning for SCOTUS. I would either aim for a district court or honestly just work at a firm where you'll get to do a lot of commercial private litigaiton. You have the prestigous federal COA already.

Also re grades, my understanding is that 80% Hs at SLS with a few book prizes is probably top 5 to 10 percent of the class no? I don't think your grades are not competitive.

[Anonymous User]

my lack of Fed Soc connections

I know former Park clerks without strong (or really any) Fed Soc connections FWIW. IME the SDNY/EDNY district courts are going to have more cases of the type you are interested in.

But if I were in your position, I probably wouldn't clerk again at all.

[Anonymous User]

Your ideology wouldn’t be an issue for Park or Sullivan, but grades and double appellate might. On ideology and practice interests you sound like a good fit for Park. I don’t know enough about Stanford to know where you are in your class. I’d try to clerk on SDNY instead for the reasons others have said. Cronan would be the obvious choice if you could get him.

[Anonymous User]

Your ideology wouldn’t be an issue for Park or Sullivan, but grades and double appellate might. On ideology and practice interests you sound like a good fit for Park. I don’t know enough about Stanford to know where you are in your class. I’d try to clerk on SDNY instead for the reasons others have said. Cronan would be the obvious choice if you could get him.

Kovner would also be a great choice on EDNY. She's an SLS alum and doesn't gatekeep based on Fed Soc/ideology but does skew originalist/textualist (Scalia clerk) if that matters to OP.

[Anonymous User]

Your ideology wouldn’t be an issue for Park or Sullivan, but grades and double appellate might. On ideology and practice interests you sound like a good fit for Park. I don’t know enough about Stanford to know where you are in your class. I’d try to clerk on SDNY instead for the reasons others have said. Cronan would be the obvious choice if you could get him.

Kovner would also be a great choice on EDNY. She's an SLS alum and doesn't gatekeep based on Fed Soc/ideology but does skew originalist/textualist (Scalia clerk) if that matters to OP.

Kovner is not going to hire him. She is incredibly grade sensitive and is going to want SCOTUS potential. IMO if I was OP I would just go work at a firm. Double clerking is overrated and overdone, especially double federal circuit, especially, especially when both circuits are non-DC circuits (one could argue DC circuit is sort of a different kind of court because of admin).

[Anonymous User]

Your ideology wouldn’t be an issue for Park or Sullivan, but grades and double appellate might. On ideology and practice interests you sound like a good fit for Park. I don’t know enough about Stanford to know where you are in your class. I’d try to clerk on SDNY instead for the reasons others have said. Cronan would be the obvious choice if you could get him.

Kovner would also be a great choice on EDNY. She's an SLS alum and doesn't gatekeep based on Fed Soc/ideology but does skew originalist/textualist (Scalia clerk) if that matters to OP.

Kovner is not going to hire him. She is incredibly grade sensitive and is going to want SCOTUS potential. IMO if I was OP I would just go work at a firm. Double clerking is overrated and overdone, especially double federal circuit, especially, especially when both circuits are non-DC circuits (one could argue DC circuit is sort of a different kind of court because of admin).

I think I would generally agree with this, but if OP genuinely enjoys clerking then it could be worth it just for their joy. Double COA clerkships seem to be the trend for SCOTUS clerkships now too if your grades are in the top 10%.

I'm curious though OP, why not join FedSoc if you're conservative? I think this is the first time I've heard that.

[GFox345]

SLS grad currently clerking for a conservative COA judge on the Ninth Circuit. Transcript consists of 80% Hs and a few book prizes. Interested in commercial litigation and academia (have a couple of publications). Conservative, but not a Fed Soc member.

I’ve had a blast clerking. The only bummer is how little commercial litigation we get on Ninth. With that in mind, I’m looking into clerking again, this time on the Second Circuit. My understanding is that I’d likely be doing a couple more years of practice before clerking again, given how far out hiring has gone. My preference would be to clerk for one of the Trump appointees in the city (e.g., Sullivan, Park, or Menashi).

What gives me pause are my preference for private over public law, my lack of Fed Soc connections, and potentially my grades (considering how competitive these posts are). Based on my vital statistics, is it worth shooting my shot?

COA -> D. Ct. clerk here, with three years in big law now. From my experience, If you want to do more commercial litigation stuff, you should look to do a second clerkship, if at all, on a district court. You're just not gonna get a lot of practical commercial lit experience on any Court of Appeals. It's gonna be very disproportionately criminal, 1983 QI appeals, state/federal habeas, etc. anywhere. And, even then, the commercial lit cases you do get will give you zero actual sense for how commercial lit goes in reality. Plus, as many have pointed out, double appellate looks weird on a resume unless you have a legit shot at SCOTUS, which you do not.

If your goal is to eventually do commercial lit, district court is a way more beneficial experience to your practice skills.

[Anonymous User]

OP, your grades are very good. I'd guess top 10% or better. A second COA with a feeder judge may be a good idea if you can land one. I wouldn't worry about the FedSoc connections point. Most judges don't care as long as people who know you can vouch that you won't be a problem.

[Anonymous User]

SLS grad currently clerking for a conservative COA judge on the Ninth Circuit. Transcript consists of 80% Hs and a few book prizes. Interested in commercial litigation and academia (have a couple of publications). Conservative, but not a Fed Soc member.

I’ve had a blast clerking. The only bummer is how little commercial litigation we get on Ninth. With that in mind, I’m looking into clerking again, this time on the Second Circuit. My understanding is that I’d likely be doing a couple more years of practice before clerking again, given how far out hiring has gone. My preference would be to clerk for one of the Trump appointees in the city (e.g., Sullivan, Park, or Menashi).

What gives me pause are my preference for private over public law, my lack of Fed Soc connections, and potentially my grades (considering how competitive these posts are). Based on my vital statistics, is it worth shooting my shot?

There is very little benefit to another COA. It makes far more sense to shoot for EDNY or SDNY after working for a couple years. But there really is no need for a second clerkship at all given that you want to do commercial litigation. I recommend you go to a top shop, seek out a good mentor, and then grind for substantive opportunities.

[Anonymous User]

Your ideology wouldn’t be an issue for Park or Sullivan, but grades and double appellate might. On ideology and practice interests you sound like a good fit for Park. I don’t know enough about Stanford to know where you are in your class. I’d try to clerk on SDNY instead for the reasons others have said. Cronan would be the obvious choice if you could get him.

Kovner would also be a great choice on EDNY. She's an SLS alum and doesn't gatekeep based on Fed Soc/ideology but does skew originalist/textualist (Scalia clerk) if that matters to OP.

Kovner is not going to hire him. She is incredibly grade sensitive and is going to want SCOTUS potential. IMO if I was OP I would just go work at a firm. Double clerking is overrated and overdone, especially double federal circuit, especially, especially when both circuits are non-DC circuits (one could argue DC circuit is sort of a different kind of court because of admin).

Feel like Kovner is in play for someone with those grades at SLS? Or at least pending rigor and other extracurriculars? They're comfortably top 10% These grades comments are nuts.

[Anonymous User]

Your ideology wouldn’t be an issue for Park or Sullivan, but grades and double appellate might. On ideology and practice interests you sound like a good fit for Park. I don’t know enough about Stanford to know where you are in your class. I’d try to clerk on SDNY instead for the reasons others have said. Cronan would be the obvious choice if you could get him.

Kovner would also be a great choice on EDNY. She's an SLS alum and doesn't gatekeep based on Fed Soc/ideology but does skew originalist/textualist (Scalia clerk) if that matters to OP.

Kovner is not going to hire him. She is incredibly grade sensitive and is going to want SCOTUS potential. IMO if I was OP I would just go work at a firm. Double clerking is overrated and overdone, especially double federal circuit, especially, especially when both circuits are non-DC circuits (one could argue DC circuit is sort of a different kind of court because of admin).

Feel like Kovner is in play for someone with those grades at SLS? Or at least pending rigor and other extracurriculars? They're comfortably top 10% These grades comments are nuts.

Kovner is absolutely in play with those grades. Sullivan and Park are easily in play, but you should definitely clerk on EDNY or SDNY instead of double COA. Look at Kovner, Komitee, Cronan.

[Anonymous User]

OP, I agree with the consensus. Unless you are looking to clerk for SCOTUS, practice for a couple years and try to get the best D. Ct. clerkship you can in SDNY or EDNY. It will be much more practical for your career objectives if those objectives don't include SCOTUS.

[Anonymous User]

Your ideology wouldn’t be an issue for Park or Sullivan, but grades and double appellate might. On ideology and practice interests you sound like a good fit for Park. I don’t know enough about Stanford to know where you are in your class. I’d try to clerk on SDNY instead for the reasons others have said. Cronan would be the obvious choice if you could get him.

Kovner would also be a great choice on EDNY. She's an SLS alum and doesn't gatekeep based on Fed Soc/ideology but does skew originalist/textualist (Scalia clerk) if that matters to OP.

Kovner is not going to hire him. She is incredibly grade sensitive and is going to want SCOTUS potential. IMO if I was OP I would just go work at a firm. Double clerking is overrated and overdone, especially double federal circuit, especially, especially when both circuits are non-DC circuits (one could argue DC circuit is sort of a different kind of court because of admin).

Feel like Kovner is in play for someone with those grades at SLS? Or at least pending rigor and other extracurriculars? They're comfortably top 10% These grades comments are nuts.

Kovner is absolutely in play with those grades. Sullivan and Park are easily in play, but you should definitely clerk on EDNY or SDNY instead of double COA. Look at Kovner, Komitee, Cronan.

This is overstating it—Park, Kovner, Cronan look for summa or high magna at top schools, basically hiring the highest GPAs they can, which is part of why they care about Fed Soc less than many similar judges. They also hire a lot of each others’ clerks because they look for similar things. Sullivan and Komitee are a bit less picky. But absolutely worth applying at least to the district judges.

[Anonymous User]

Your ideology wouldn’t be an issue for Park or Sullivan, but grades and double appellate might. On ideology and practice interests you sound like a good fit for Park. I don’t know enough about Stanford to know where you are in your class. I’d try to clerk on SDNY instead for the reasons others have said. Cronan would be the obvious choice if you could get him.

Kovner would also be a great choice on EDNY. She's an SLS alum and doesn't gatekeep based on Fed Soc/ideology but does skew originalist/textualist (Scalia clerk) if that matters to OP.

Kovner is not going to hire him. She is incredibly grade sensitive and is going to want SCOTUS potential. IMO if I was OP I would just go work at a firm. Double clerking is overrated and overdone, especially double federal circuit, especially, especially when both circuits are non-DC circuits (one could argue DC circuit is sort of a different kind of court because of admin).

Feel like Kovner is in play for someone with those grades at SLS? Or at least pending rigor and other extracurriculars? They're comfortably top 10% These grades comments are nuts.

Kovner is absolutely in play with those grades. Sullivan and Park are easily in play, but you should definitely clerk on EDNY or SDNY instead of double COA. Look at Kovner, Komitee, Cronan.

This is overstating it—Park, Kovner, Cronan look for summa or high magna at top schools, basically hiring the highest GPAs they can, which is part of why they care about Fed Soc less than many similar judges. They also hire a lot of each others’ clerks because they look for similar things. Sullivan and Komitee are a bit less picky. But absolutely worth applying at least to the district judges.

80% Hs at SLS is roughly summa-equivalent (we don't have latin honors). By comparison, median is 30% Hs and no one has ever gotten 100%.

[Anonymous User]

80% H with book prizes at SLS does not disqualify you for SCOTUS. Also, if you're having a blast clerking, and considering doing a second COA, you probably have a different order of priorities than most of the people here, who are just trying to maximize the cumulative amount of money earned over their lifetime. I agree with those who said you should consider district clerkships though.

[Anonymous User]

80% H with book prizes at SLS does not disqualify you for SCOTUS. Also, if you're having a blast clerking, and considering doing a second COA, you probably have a different order of priorities than most of the people here, who are just trying to maximize the cumulative amount of money earned over their lifetime. I agree with those who said you should consider district clerkships though.

I don’t think anyone who does two clerkships is trying to maximize money. You would make more money just being in Big Law and not clerking, even factoring in the clerkship bonus.

[Anonymous User]

80% H with book prizes at SLS does not disqualify you for SCOTUS. Also, if you're having a blast clerking, and considering doing a second COA, you probably have a different order of priorities than most of the people here, who are just trying to maximize the cumulative amount of money earned over their lifetime. I agree with those who said you should consider district clerkships though.

I don’t think anyone who does two clerkships is trying to maximize money. You would make more money just being in Big Law and not clerking, even factoring in the clerkship bonus.

Short run, of course. On the other hand, a good second clerkship can have a positive career ROI. Private sector careers are long and one lost year as an associate is, in the end, small potatoes..

[Anonymous User]

80% H with book prizes at SLS does not disqualify you for SCOTUS. Also, if you're having a blast clerking, and considering doing a second COA, you probably have a different order of priorities than most of the people here, who are just trying to maximize the cumulative amount of money earned over their lifetime. I agree with those who said you should consider district clerkships though.

I don’t think anyone who does two clerkships is trying to maximize money. You would make more money just being in Big Law and not clerking, even factoring in the clerkship bonus.

Yes, I think that's what I said. The people advising against doing a second clerkship might be heavily prioritizing money, while OP likely isn't, since OP is considering a second CoA clerkship.