Path for clerks? Forum

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Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:44 pm

2L summer at DOJ/similar govt -> federal clerk -> big law/litigation boutique

How feasible is this without 2L SA? Is it pretty feasible or a major uphill battle? Would most go into government instead?

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm

We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.

Anonymous User
Posts: 413349
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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
Unless I am mistaken, this was not the question and op sounds like they are already clerking/set to clerk.

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by tq4451 » Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
Not OP, but since when is it easier to get a 3L recruiting litigation job than to clerk anywhere in the US with good grades. No idea what Pomeroy/Butler means, but my impression was that NYU students clerk later because they refuse to clerk outside the northeast.

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
Another CLS person here - not sure where the 25% number came from but being close to 10% is quite a lot different than being around 25%. Of course not a cakewalk still, but know a number of people who got post-grad clerkships with grades somewhere between 5-15%. Also know some who didn't, so again not saying it's easy, but not out of reach for those who want it + play their cards right.

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Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
uhhhh isn't clerking easier than getting a 3L job for litigation?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
The geographical inflexibility of our grads contribute a lot to this. Not willing to leave the NYC metro area really hinders their chances because they are competing with the best of the best for SDNY, EDNY, 2nd Cir., and Newark spots. Many tri-state judges also hire far out. Also, many libs I knew refused to clerk for conservative judges, even the ones who are moderate and open to hiring counterclerks.

If a particular NYU grad was more flexible in his/her selection of judges in terms of location and politics, I'm sure that grad would do much better than the average NYU outcome.

Anonymous User
Posts: 413349
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:14 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
The geographical inflexibility of our grads contribute a lot to this. Not willing to leave the NYC metro area really hinders their chances because they are competing with the best of the best for SDNY, EDNY, 2nd Cir., and Newark spots. Many tri-state judges also hire far out. Also, many libs I knew refused to clerk for conservative judges, even the ones who are moderate and open to hiring counterclerks.

If a particular NYU grad was more flexible in his/her selection of judges in terms of location and politics, I'm sure that grad would do much better than the average NYU outcome.
None of these posts respond to OP’s question. Top 15% at a T6, clerk (presumably outside the NYC/DC/SF areas), how wide open are the options? Not familiar enough with this path myself.

Anonymous User
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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:14 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
The geographical inflexibility of our grads contribute a lot to this. Not willing to leave the NYC metro area really hinders their chances because they are competing with the best of the best for SDNY, EDNY, 2nd Cir., and Newark spots. Many tri-state judges also hire far out. Also, many libs I knew refused to clerk for conservative judges, even the ones who are moderate and open to hiring counterclerks.

If a particular NYU grad was more flexible in his/her selection of judges in terms of location and politics, I'm sure that grad would do much better than the average NYU outcome.
Tangential, but the above is the best answer to "why does UVA place so well?" Lots of conservative applicants plus lack of an overwhelming pull to one market = lots of clerkships, albeit very heavily within the 4th/5th/6th circuits.

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Anonymous User
Posts: 413349
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:03 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:14 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
The geographical inflexibility of our grads contribute a lot to this. Not willing to leave the NYC metro area really hinders their chances because they are competing with the best of the best for SDNY, EDNY, 2nd Cir., and Newark spots. Many tri-state judges also hire far out. Also, many libs I knew refused to clerk for conservative judges, even the ones who are moderate and open to hiring counterclerks.

If a particular NYU grad was more flexible in his/her selection of judges in terms of location and politics, I'm sure that grad would do much better than the average NYU outcome.
Tangential, but the above is the best answer to "why does UVA place so well?" Lots of conservative applicants plus lack of an overwhelming pull to one market = lots of clerkships, albeit very heavily within the 4th/5th/6th circuits.
Idk I think there is more than that. I go to NYU and my friend goes to UVA. Our (NYU) clerkship office is fairly hands off and not really involved. They're nice but not that aggressive at placing students. Meanwhile UVA's clerkship office is very involved and aggressive at placing students. I'm sure some self-selection is part of it, but I think there is real truth to the theory that NYU (and even moreso Columbia from what I hear) just have less powerful clerkship offices.

Anonymous User
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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:44 pm
2L summer at DOJ/similar govt -> federal clerk -> big law/litigation boutique

How feasible is this without 2L SA? Is it pretty feasible or a major uphill battle? Would most go into government instead?
I think the mixed messages you're getting in this thread is because it's not entirely clear if you already HAVE the clerkship or if you are just assuming you'll get a clerkship.

Anonymous User
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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:03 pm

OP. Already have the clerkship (in a non-Acela corridor district but would like to return to the east coast).

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:32 pm

Not OP, but in a similar position/stats. Does anyone know of success stories for 3L OCI for lit/regulatory work? Is it really that rare or are there just not that many well credentialed candidates doing it...

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:32 pm
Not OP, but in a similar position/stats. Does anyone know of success stories for 3L OCI for lit/regulatory work? Is it really that rare or are there just not that many well credentialed candidates doing it...
I did it and received bank/fin reg offers at Cov + Latham DC. 3 friends did it, 3 got offers at Kellogg (2 for post-clerkship, 1 is not clerking) and 2 got offers at Quinn.

Everyone received offers from their 2L firms and had extenuating circumstances for pivoting.

Anonymous User
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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:05 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:32 pm
Not OP, but in a similar position/stats. Does anyone know of success stories for 3L OCI for lit/regulatory work? Is it really that rare or are there just not that many well credentialed candidates doing it...
I did it and received bank/fin reg offers at Cov + Latham DC. 3 friends did it, 3 got offers at Kellogg (2 for post-clerkship, 1 is not clerking) and 2 got offers at Quinn.

Everyone received offers from their 2L firms and had extenuating circumstances for pivoting.
But what about without 2L SA like OP?

Anonymous User
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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:03 pm
OP. Already have the clerkship (in a non-Acela corridor district but would like to return to the east coast).
Given you had the credentials for the clerkship, and you're at a top law school, I would be very surprised if you weren't easily able to pick up a big law litigation offer for post-clerkship. Boutique is always more of a ?? but I wouldn't count it out either.

jotarokujo

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by jotarokujo » Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:46 am

tq4451 wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
Not OP, but since when is it easier to get a 3L recruiting litigation job than to clerk anywhere in the US with good grades. No idea what Pomeroy/Butler means, but my impression was that NYU students clerk later because they refuse to clerk outside the northeast.
if you're talking federal district and above, it's probably harder to clerk than to get a biglaw job during 3L. magistrate is potentially easier or the same. you generally don't need to be like top 15% at ccn to get a job 3L

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:43 pm

jotarokujo wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:46 am
tq4451 wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:23 pm
We need to know your current grades and school tier to answer this
not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
Not OP, but since when is it easier to get a 3L recruiting litigation job than to clerk anywhere in the US with good grades. No idea what Pomeroy/Butler means, but my impression was that NYU students clerk later because they refuse to clerk outside the northeast.
if you're talking federal district and above, it's probably harder to clerk than to get a biglaw job during 3L. magistrate is potentially easier or the same. you generally don't need to be like top 15% at ccn to get a job 3L
OP at NYU. I want to clarify what I meant. I was talking about getting a clerkship as a 2L summer for the term immediately after you graduate. So for the poster that would be the 2025 term. When I graduated (2022). Almost all of the clerkship openings during the plan for district courts and most of the opening for circuit courts were for a year or more after graduating and thus the competition for them was stricter.

Anonymous User
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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:43 pm
jotarokujo wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:46 am
tq4451 wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 am


not op but columbia law
need grades though. Advice varies drastically if you're on track for top 10% or on track for median.
OP. T6 and much closer to top 10% than median.
If you're at NYU/CLS/Penn and top 25% It is going to be hard to get a federal clerkship for immediately after graduation. I was at NYU and most the people clerking literally immediately after graduation were Pomeroy/Butlers and others got good clerkships but often for a year or two after graduating. Certainly not impossible though given your grades to do something like 3L recruiting for a firm that you go to for a year or two, then do a clerkship, then do litigation boutique.
Not OP, but since when is it easier to get a 3L recruiting litigation job than to clerk anywhere in the US with good grades. No idea what Pomeroy/Butler means, but my impression was that NYU students clerk later because they refuse to clerk outside the northeast.
if you're talking federal district and above, it's probably harder to clerk than to get a biglaw job during 3L. magistrate is potentially easier or the same. you generally don't need to be like top 15% at ccn to get a job 3L
OP at NYU. I want to clarify what I meant. I was talking about getting a clerkship as a 2L summer for the term immediately after you graduate. So for the poster that would be the 2025 term. When I graduated (2022). Almost all of the clerkship openings during the plan for district courts and most of the opening for circuit courts were for a year or more after graduating and thus the competition for them was stricter.
I think this was understood by previous posters. And I don’t think the poster would be a 1L…

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:05 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:32 pm
Not OP, but in a similar position/stats. Does anyone know of success stories for 3L OCI for lit/regulatory work? Is it really that rare or are there just not that many well credentialed candidates doing it...
I did it and received bank/fin reg offers at Cov + Latham DC. 3 friends did it, 3 got offers at Kellogg (2 for post-clerkship, 1 is not clerking) and 2 got offers at Quinn.

Everyone received offers from their 2L firms and had extenuating circumstances for pivoting.
But what about without 2L SA like OP?
Yeah, fair point - I didn't read carefully. I know a couple people who did DOJ Honors during 2L summer into double clerking into major firms but that is probably not a great blueprint

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Re: Path for clerks?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:48 am

Anyone know about Patterson 3L hiring?

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