Judge List Advice - In Lieu of Changed Grade Profile Forum

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

You're solidly in the top 25% but not top 10%. You have a shot at a circuit court clerkship and a competitive district court, but not quite any SCOTUS feeders without some other big plus factor going for you. If you're on Law Review, that will help. If you have a big name professor who knows you well and is willing to write you a very good recommendation, that will help even more.

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

You're solidly in the top 25% but not top 10%. You have a shot at a circuit court clerkship and a competitive district court, but not quite any SCOTUS feeders without some other big plus factor going for you. If you're on Law Review, that will help. If you have a big name professor who knows you well and is willing to write you a very good recommendation, that will help even more.

What would you consider a competitive district? Trying to suss out what sort of things I should self select out of, like is NY/DC districts off the table

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

You're solidly in the top 25% but not top 10%. You have a shot at a circuit court clerkship and a competitive district court, but not quite any SCOTUS feeders without some other big plus factor going for you. If you're on Law Review, that will help. If you have a big name professor who knows you well and is willing to write you a very good recommendation, that will help even more.

What would you consider a competitive district? Trying to suss out what sort of things I should self select out of, like is NY/DC districts off the table

As top 25% but not top 10% at HLS, I would say you have a good shot everywhere, except the 2nd Circuit, DC Circuit, 9th Circuit, and SDNY are unlikely for you, as are the well-known feeders in more flyover-ish areas (Sutton, Pryor, Thapar, Wilkinson, and Kethledge). That said, there are exceptions and some HLS people with your class rank manage to squeak into the especially competitive clerkships. A lot depends on luck, timing, and other factors like recommendations, connections, and URM status.

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

You're solidly in the top 25% but not top 10%. You have a shot at a circuit court clerkship and a competitive district court, but not quite any SCOTUS feeders without some other big plus factor going for you. If you're on Law Review, that will help. If you have a big name professor who knows you well and is willing to write you a very good recommendation, that will help even more.

What would you consider a competitive district? Trying to suss out what sort of things I should self select out of, like is NY/DC districts off the table

As top 25% but not top 10% at HLS, I would say you have a good shot everywhere, except the 2nd Circuit, DC Circuit, 9th Circuit, and SDNY are unlikely for you, as are the well-known feeders in more flyover-ish areas (Sutton, Pryor, Thapar, Wilkinson, and Kethledge). That said, there are exceptions and some HLS people with your class rank manage to squeak into the especially competitive clerkships. A lot depends on luck, timing, and other factors like recommendations, connections, and URM status.

2 and DC are generally very selective top to bottom, but 9 really isn’t, and there are also a good number of SDNY judges who aren’t exceptionally grade-selective. I don’t think there’s a reason not to just blanket everywhere minus individual judges who would never take a non-magna HLS student in OP’s position.

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

You're solidly in the top 25% but not top 10%. You have a shot at a circuit court clerkship and a competitive district court, but not quite any SCOTUS feeders without some other big plus factor going for you. If you're on Law Review, that will help. If you have a big name professor who knows you well and is willing to write you a very good recommendation, that will help even more.

What would you consider a competitive district? Trying to suss out what sort of things I should self select out of, like is NY/DC districts off the table

As top 25% but not top 10% at HLS, I would say you have a good shot everywhere, except the 2nd Circuit, DC Circuit, 9th Circuit, and SDNY are unlikely for you, as are the well-known feeders in more flyover-ish areas (Sutton, Pryor, Thapar, Wilkinson, and Kethledge). That said, there are exceptions and some HLS people with your class rank manage to squeak into the especially competitive clerkships. A lot depends on luck, timing, and other factors like recommendations, connections, and URM status.

2 and DC are generally very selective top to bottom, but 9 really isn’t, and there are also a good number of SDNY judges who aren’t exceptionally grade-selective. I don’t think there’s a reason not to just blanket everywhere minus individual judges who would never take a non-magna HLS student in OP’s position.

I have one power professor who will be writing for me but I don't have any super crazy unique attributes. I think I'm just going to blanket everything but I don't really know how to vet which judges are super grade selective vs those who are not

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

You're solidly in the top 25% but not top 10%. You have a shot at a circuit court clerkship and a competitive district court, but not quite any SCOTUS feeders without some other big plus factor going for you. If you're on Law Review, that will help. If you have a big name professor who knows you well and is willing to write you a very good recommendation, that will help even more.

What would you consider a competitive district? Trying to suss out what sort of things I should self select out of, like is NY/DC districts off the table

As top 25% but not top 10% at HLS, I would say you have a good shot everywhere, except the 2nd Circuit, DC Circuit, 9th Circuit, and SDNY are unlikely for you, as are the well-known feeders in more flyover-ish areas (Sutton, Pryor, Thapar, Wilkinson, and Kethledge). That said, there are exceptions and some HLS people with your class rank manage to squeak into the especially competitive clerkships. A lot depends on luck, timing, and other factors like recommendations, connections, and URM status.

2 and DC are generally very selective top to bottom, but 9 really isn’t, and there are also a good number of SDNY judges who aren’t exceptionally grade-selective. I don’t think there’s a reason not to just blanket everywhere minus individual judges who would never take a non-magna HLS student in OP’s position.

I have one power professor who will be writing for me but I don't have any super crazy unique attributes. I think I'm just going to blanket everything but I don't really know how to vet which judges are super grade selective vs those who are not

Look at the feeder judge sheets elsewhere in this thread. The big players on that sheet tend to be the most grade selective broadly speaking, although there are always exceptions.

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

You're solidly in the top 25% but not top 10%. You have a shot at a circuit court clerkship and a competitive district court, but not quite any SCOTUS feeders without some other big plus factor going for you. If you're on Law Review, that will help. If you have a big name professor who knows you well and is willing to write you a very good recommendation, that will help even more.

What would you consider a competitive district? Trying to suss out what sort of things I should self select out of, like is NY/DC districts off the table

As top 25% but not top 10% at HLS, I would say you have a good shot everywhere, except the 2nd Circuit, DC Circuit, 9th Circuit, and SDNY are unlikely for you, as are the well-known feeders in more flyover-ish areas (Sutton, Pryor, Thapar, Wilkinson, and Kethledge). That said, there are exceptions and some HLS people with your class rank manage to squeak into the especially competitive clerkships. A lot depends on luck, timing, and other factors like recommendations, connections, and URM status.

2 and DC are generally very selective top to bottom, but 9 really isn’t, and there are also a good number of SDNY judges who aren’t exceptionally grade-selective. I don’t think there’s a reason not to just blanket everywhere minus individual judges who would never take a non-magna HLS student in OP’s position.

I have one power professor who will be writing for me but I don't have any super crazy unique attributes. I think I'm just going to blanket everything but I don't really know how to vet which judges are super grade selective vs those who are not

The below is based generally on impressions and should be taken with a grain of salt:

On SDNY, the especially grade-selective judges are Oetken, Engelmayer, Ramos, Furman, Abrams, Torres, Caproni, Wood, Cote, Rakoff, McMahon, and Buchwald.

On the 9th, the especially grade-selective judges are McKeown, Frieldand, O'Scannlain, Fletcher, Berzon, Owens, Watford, (Sidney) Thomas, Hurwitz, and Bea. Koh might very well become grade-selective now that she's elevated but we'll have to wait and see I suppose.

[Anonymous User]

It also matters *which* power professor. Like being tight with Goldsmith with a 3.85 for national security reasons might have landed you Wilkinson after 1L fall, but that might be a tougher pool post-2 full years. Similarly, Lazarus and the like might make more of a difference than “just” a SCOTUS-clerking prof. Blanketing is probably the right call, and don’t be shy about sharing judge lists and asking if there are any names profs would feel comfortable calling about. Nothing to lose really.

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

You're solidly in the top 25% but not top 10%. You have a shot at a circuit court clerkship and a competitive district court, but not quite any SCOTUS feeders without some other big plus factor going for you. If you're on Law Review, that will help. If you have a big name professor who knows you well and is willing to write you a very good recommendation, that will help even more.

What would you consider a competitive district? Trying to suss out what sort of things I should self select out of, like is NY/DC districts off the table

As top 25% but not top 10% at HLS, I would say you have a good shot everywhere, except the 2nd Circuit, DC Circuit, 9th Circuit, and SDNY are unlikely for you, as are the well-known feeders in more flyover-ish areas (Sutton, Pryor, Thapar, Wilkinson, and Kethledge). That said, there are exceptions and some HLS people with your class rank manage to squeak into the especially competitive clerkships. A lot depends on luck, timing, and other factors like recommendations, connections, and URM status.

2 and DC are generally very selective top to bottom, but 9 really isn’t, and there are also a good number of SDNY judges who aren’t exceptionally grade-selective. I don’t think there’s a reason not to just blanket everywhere minus individual judges who would never take a non-magna HLS student in OP’s position.

I have one power professor who will be writing for me but I don't have any super crazy unique attributes. I think I'm just going to blanket everything but I don't really know how to vet which judges are super grade selective vs those who are not

The below is based generally on impressions and should be taken with a grain of salt:

On SDNY, the especially grade-selective judges are Oetken, Engelmayer, Ramos, Furman, Abrams, Torres, Caproni, Wood, Cote, Rakoff, McMahon, and Buchwald.

On the 9th, the especially grade-selective judges are McKeown, Frieldand, O'Scannlain, Fletcher, Berzon, Owens, Watford, (Sidney) Thomas, Hurwitz, and Bea. Koh might very well become grade-selective now that she's elevated but we'll have to wait and see I suppose.

Fletcher, Watford, Oetken, Furman, and Engelmayer are in a different category than the rest in terms of pure grades. All the others have hired at least one non-magna HLS student in the past few years. Still super competitive, and the higher the grades the better, but with a professor connection/right profile definitely do-able at ~3.9.

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

You're solidly in the top 25% but not top 10%. You have a shot at a circuit court clerkship and a competitive district court, but not quite any SCOTUS feeders without some other big plus factor going for you. If you're on Law Review, that will help. If you have a big name professor who knows you well and is willing to write you a very good recommendation, that will help even more.

What would you consider a competitive district? Trying to suss out what sort of things I should self select out of, like is NY/DC districts off the table

As top 25% but not top 10% at HLS, I would say you have a good shot everywhere, except the 2nd Circuit, DC Circuit, 9th Circuit, and SDNY are unlikely for you, as are the well-known feeders in more flyover-ish areas (Sutton, Pryor, Thapar, Wilkinson, and Kethledge). That said, there are exceptions and some HLS people with your class rank manage to squeak into the especially competitive clerkships. A lot depends on luck, timing, and other factors like recommendations, connections, and URM status.

2 and DC are generally very selective top to bottom, but 9 really isn’t, and there are also a good number of SDNY judges who aren’t exceptionally grade-selective. I don’t think there’s a reason not to just blanket everywhere minus individual judges who would never take a non-magna HLS student in OP’s position.

I have one power professor who will be writing for me but I don't have any super crazy unique attributes. I think I'm just going to blanket everything but I don't really know how to vet which judges are super grade selective vs those who are not

The below is based generally on impressions and should be taken with a grain of salt:

On SDNY, the especially grade-selective judges are Oetken, Engelmayer, Ramos, Furman, Abrams, Torres, Caproni, Wood, Cote, Rakoff, McMahon, and Buchwald.

On the 9th, the especially grade-selective judges are McKeown, Frieldand, O'Scannlain, Fletcher, Berzon, Owens, Watford, (Sidney) Thomas, Hurwitz, and Bea. Koh might very well become grade-selective now that she's elevated but we'll have to wait and see I suppose.

The SDNY judges are not accurate. Ramos, Torres, Caproni, McMahon, and Buchwald are among the less grade selective.

[Anonymous User]

If it's alright, piggybacking off of OP anon's post. Similar stats except 3.7~ GPA, no DSs, mostly Hs with 4 Ps. Any insight on 3rd Circuit? Plan to work for at least 2-3 years, so I'm applying far out in advance.

[Anonymous User]

If it's alright, piggybacking off of OP anon's post. Similar stats except 3.7~ GPA, no DSs, mostly Hs with 4 Ps. Any insight on 3rd Circuit? Plan to work for at least 2-3 years, so I'm applying far out in advance.

If you’re on Law Review, are a URM, or have some other thing going for you, then you’ll probably get a circuit clerkship somewhere if you apply broadly over the course of several years.

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

Apply everywhere. I got SDNY and a circuit clerkship with comparable grades at H, and I know plenty of people who did so with significantly worse grades. There’s a lot more randomness to this process than TLS suggests.

[Anonymous User]

It also matters *which* power professor. Like being tight with Goldsmith with a 3.85 for national security reasons might have landed you Wilkinson after 1L fall, but that might be a tougher pool post-2 full years. Similarly, Lazarus and the like might make more of a difference than “just” a SCOTUS-clerking prof. Blanketing is probably the right call, and don’t be shy about sharing judge lists and asking if there are any names profs would feel comfortable calling about. Nothing to lose really.

It's goldsmith

[Anonymous User]

Just got grades back at HLS, cumulative GPA jumped to a 3.85 - including H in fed courts + a DS. Not sure where this puts me in the class but it feels high enough that I should be maybe altering my application strategy?

My first semester grades were like fine but nothing spectacular so my judges list does not include any competitive districts and has a limited circuit presence. How much should I be changing it in light of my recent grades.

Lists are due asap so kinda on a time crunch and panicking

You're solidly in the top 25% but not top 10%. You have a shot at a circuit court clerkship and a competitive district court, but not quite any SCOTUS feeders without some other big plus factor going for you. If you're on Law Review, that will help. If you have a big name professor who knows you well and is willing to write you a very good recommendation, that will help even more.

What would you consider a competitive district? Trying to suss out what sort of things I should self select out of, like is NY/DC districts off the table

As top 25% but not top 10% at HLS, I would say you have a good shot everywhere, except the 2nd Circuit, DC Circuit, 9th Circuit, and SDNY are unlikely for you, as are the well-known feeders in more flyover-ish areas (Sutton, Pryor, Thapar, Wilkinson, and Kethledge). That said, there are exceptions and some HLS people with your class rank manage to squeak into the especially competitive clerkships. A lot depends on luck, timing, and other factors like recommendations, connections, and URM status.

2 and DC are generally very selective top to bottom, but 9 really isn’t, and there are also a good number of SDNY judges who aren’t exceptionally grade-selective. I don’t think there’s a reason not to just blanket everywhere minus individual judges who would never take a non-magna HLS student in OP’s position.

I have one power professor who will be writing for me but I don't have any super crazy unique attributes. I think I'm just going to blanket everything but I don't really know how to vet which judges are super grade selective vs those who are not

The below is based generally on impressions and should be taken with a grain of salt:

On SDNY, the especially grade-selective judges are Oetken, Engelmayer, Ramos, Furman, Abrams, Torres, Caproni, Wood, Cote, Rakoff, McMahon, and Buchwald.

On the 9th, the especially grade-selective judges are McKeown, Frieldand, O'Scannlain, Fletcher, Berzon, Owens, Watford, (Sidney) Thomas, Hurwitz, and Bea. Koh might very well become grade-selective now that she's elevated but we'll have to wait and see I suppose.

This is really off. To SDNY, add Cronan and Woods and drop Ramos, Torres, McMahon, and Buchwald. Cronan, Rakoff, Furman, Oetken, and Engelmayer in particular are significantly more selective than most COA judges. To CA9, add Ikuta, Miller, Collins, and Bress.

[Anonymous User]

Two things:

1. Take my advice with a grain of salt since I graduated close to a decade ago, but I had pretty similar grades (just under a 3.9, with an H in fed courts as a 2L and multiple DS grades) and ended up with a district court clerkship in a not-especially-competitive district in the Ninth Circuit (not NDCA/CDCA, and not EDWA/MT/ID/AK). I knew people with worse grades who got appellate clerkships and clerkships on competitive district courts, and I also knew people who graduated magna who struck out or ended up on a court that was not at all competitive. All of this is to say that you should really just apply broadly, since the process is really very random and you never know what judge is going to pull you out of the pile.

2. On the Ninth Circuit, I think McKeown, Friedland, O'Scannlain, Fletcher, Berzon, Owens, Watford, Ikuta, Miller, and Bress are extremely grade selective and generally want SCOTUS-level credentials. I don't know where you stand ideologically, but you are probably in the running for a lot of the moderate-to-conservative judges on the Ninth. Goldsmith will probably move the needle somewhat with Bybee and Lee, both of whom hire plenty of HLS grads and are reportedly very good to work for.

[mauet]

Goldsmith will probably move the needle somewhat with Bybee

That's almost surely right, but probably not in the direction you're suggesting.......

[Anonymous User]

Two things:

1. Take my advice with a grain of salt since I graduated close to a decade ago, but I had pretty similar grades (just under a 3.9, with an H in fed courts as a 2L and multiple DS grades) and ended up with a district court clerkship in a not-especially-competitive district in the Ninth Circuit (not NDCA/CDCA, and not EDWA/MT/ID/AK). I knew people with worse grades who got appellate clerkships and clerkships on competitive district courts, and I also knew people who graduated magna who struck out or ended up on a court that was not at all competitive. All of this is to say that you should really just apply broadly, since the process is really very random and you never know what judge is going to pull you out of the pile.

2. On the Ninth Circuit, I think McKeown, Friedland, O'Scannlain, Fletcher, Berzon, Owens, Watford, Ikuta, Miller, and Bress are extremely grade selective and generally want SCOTUS-level credentials. I don't know where you stand ideologically, but you are probably in the running for a lot of the moderate-to-conservative judges on the Ninth. Goldsmith will probably move the needle somewhat with Bybee and Lee, both of whom hire plenty of HLS grads and are reportedly very good to work for.

The advice in this thread is generally right. To make it a bit more specific, there are only a handful of judges across the country who have never hired an HLS student who finished lower than magna. The following moderate-to-liberal circuit judges (the conservative ecosystem is just different, so will leave that for another day), all of whom TLS would deem extremely selective, have hired cum laude HLS students in recent years: Barron, Lohier, Livingston, Pam Harris, Diane Wood, Motz, Berzon, Watford, Friedland, Pillard. On the other hand, there are many students with grades well above the magna threshold who end up with clerkships that TLS would deem as non-desirable.

Although this information is banal, it's worth discussing because the advice on TLS typically obscures a few key facts. First, a GPA greater than 3.9 is absolutely necessary for only a few circuit judges. I'd say fewer than 10 nationwide. Second, even a 4.1 GPA isn't by itself sufficient for many circuit judges. It's definitely not sufficient to give a student much discretion in terms of picking certain judges ex ante. Third, it can't be overemphasized how idiosyncratic clerkship hiring is. There are some circuit judges who simply don't like HLS. Or they love another top school and hire at least two clerks from that school every year. Of course, it gets even more granular than that in terms of specific likes and dislikes.

What does this mean for an HLS student with a ~3.9 GPA? Practically, it means (a) you should apply broadly and (b) you should do everything you can to have a recommender make a call to the judge(s) you're most interested in. If your recommender likes you a lot, you'll have a shot, even if the judge typically hires HLS students with much higher GPAs. For some judges, your recommender probably needs a connection for it to make a difference. But again, that's not something that depends on you having a specific GPA. If you don't have a recommender make a call, your outcomes are going to be random unless there is something very obvious about you that would very obviously appeal to a specific judge (e.g., you're from the same hometown, you went to the same small undergrad school, your favorite book is the judge's favorite book, etc.).

[Anonymous User]

Two things:

1. Take my advice with a grain of salt since I graduated close to a decade ago, but I had pretty similar grades (just under a 3.9, with an H in fed courts as a 2L and multiple DS grades) and ended up with a district court clerkship in a not-especially-competitive district in the Ninth Circuit (not NDCA/CDCA, and not EDWA/MT/ID/AK). I knew people with worse grades who got appellate clerkships and clerkships on competitive district courts, and I also knew people who graduated magna who struck out or ended up on a court that was not at all competitive. All of this is to say that you should really just apply broadly, since the process is really very random and you never know what judge is going to pull you out of the pile.

2. On the Ninth Circuit, I think McKeown, Friedland, O'Scannlain, Fletcher, Berzon, Owens, Watford, Ikuta, Miller, and Bress are extremely grade selective and generally want SCOTUS-level credentials. I don't know where you stand ideologically, but you are probably in the running for a lot of the moderate-to-conservative judges on the Ninth. Goldsmith will probably move the needle somewhat with Bybee and Lee, both of whom hire plenty of HLS grads and are reportedly very good to work for.

The advice in this thread is generally right. To make it a bit more specific, there are only a handful of judges across the country who have never hired an HLS student who finished lower than magna. The following moderate-to-liberal circuit judges (the conservative ecosystem is just different, so will leave that for another day), all of whom TLS would deem extremely selective, have hired cum laude HLS students in recent years: Barron, Lohier, Livingston, Pam Harris, Diane Wood, Motz, Berzon, Watford, Friedland, Pillard. On the other hand, there are many students with grades well above the magna threshold who end up with clerkships that TLS would deem as non-desirable.

Although this information is banal, it's worth discussing because the advice on TLS typically obscures a few key facts. First, a GPA greater than 3.9 is absolutely necessary for only a few circuit judges. I'd say fewer than 10 nationwide. Second, even a 4.1 GPA isn't by itself sufficient for many circuit judges. It's definitely not sufficient to give a student much discretion in terms of picking certain judges ex ante. Third, it can't be overemphasized how idiosyncratic clerkship hiring is. There are some circuit judges who simply don't like HLS. Or they love another top school and hire at least two clerks from that school every year. Of course, it gets even more granular than that in terms of specific likes and dislikes.

What does this mean for an HLS student with a ~3.9 GPA? Practically, it means (a) you should apply broadly and (b) you should do everything you can to have a recommender make a call to the judge(s) you're most interested in. If your recommender likes you a lot, you'll have a shot, even if the judge typically hires HLS students with much higher GPAs. For some judges, your recommender probably needs a connection for it to make a difference. But again, that's not something that depends on you having a specific GPA. If you don't have a recommender make a call, your outcomes are going to be random unless there is something very obvious about you that would very obviously appeal to a specific judge (e.g., you're from the same hometown, you went to the same small undergrad school, your favorite book is the judge's favorite book, etc.).

Thank you for such an extended treatment of it!!

[Anonymous User]

the advice in this thread is good.

TL;DR - your grades are good enough for selective district courts, and COA. they're not good enough (and it sounds like your connections aren't juicy enough) for you to put together a tailored list of only 'brand' judges and for that to be a viable strategy

[Anonymous User]

the advice in this thread is good.

TL;DR - your grades are good enough for selective district courts, and COA. they're not good enough (and it sounds like your connections aren't juicy enough) for you to put together a tailored list of only 'brand' judges and for that to be a viable strategy

I appreciate it! I wasn't sure how far to broaden things out and definitely let myself get a little ambitious right off the bat so appreciate the candid advice all around. Hard not to get excited when you see good grades!