NY Court of Appeals clerkship Forum

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NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:45 am

How much value does a clerkship on the NYS Court of Appeals have if my end goal is an AUSA job in EDNY/SDNY? Thanks!

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:14 am

Not much, unless you clerked for Garcia who used to run SDNY.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:58 pm

That’s a great clerkship, but in my experience state clerkships are pretty invisible to USAOs. (Obviously a specific connection like mentioned could help, but it would be the connection not really the clerkship.) If you were willing to do a second clerkship, though, this one could help you get a federal one.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:05 pm

Thoughts on doing a NYCOA clerkship after a federal district court one? I just got one for 2022-23, and I'm wondering if it's worth updating my applications for 2023-24 clerkships on the NYCOA or if I should instead withdraw those applications. I'm mainly just looking for interesting things to do with my time for a few years while I write articles on the side and attempt to move into academia.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:05 pm
Thoughts on doing a NYCOA clerkship after a federal district court one? I just got one for 2022-23, and I'm wondering if it's worth updating my applications for 2023-24 clerkships on the NYCOA or if I should instead withdraw those applications. I'm mainly just looking for interesting things to do with my time for a few years while I write articles on the side and attempt to move into academia.
If you already have a district court clerkship for 2022-23, you should withdraw your NYCOA clerkship applications and instead apply for clerkships on U.S. Court of Appeals. This is especially true given your interest in academia.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:13 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:05 pm
Thoughts on doing a NYCOA clerkship after a federal district court one? I just got one for 2022-23, and I'm wondering if it's worth updating my applications for 2023-24 clerkships on the NYCOA or if I should instead withdraw those applications. I'm mainly just looking for interesting things to do with my time for a few years while I write articles on the side and attempt to move into academia.
If you already have a district court clerkship for 2022-23, you should withdraw your NYCOA clerkship applications and instead apply for clerkships on U.S. Court of Appeals. This is especially true given your interest in academia.
That's what I figured I'd hear, but simply wanted to know if the NYCOA offered anything unique to consider. I truthfully don't think where I clerk will be a deciding factor for whether I get an entry-level law professor position or not, though I'm sure both state supreme courts and federal appellate courts expose clerks to many interesting legal questions.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:43 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:13 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:05 pm
Thoughts on doing a NYCOA clerkship after a federal district court one? I just got one for 2022-23, and I'm wondering if it's worth updating my applications for 2023-24 clerkships on the NYCOA or if I should instead withdraw those applications. I'm mainly just looking for interesting things to do with my time for a few years while I write articles on the side and attempt to move into academia.
If you already have a district court clerkship for 2022-23, you should withdraw your NYCOA clerkship applications and instead apply for clerkships on U.S. Court of Appeals. This is especially true given your interest in academia.
That's what I figured I'd hear, but simply wanted to know if the NYCOA offered anything unique to consider. I truthfully don't think where I clerk will be a deciding factor for whether I get an entry-level law professor position or not, though I'm sure both state supreme courts and federal appellate courts expose clerks to many interesting legal questions.
Ah, got it. I think a NYCOA experience could be personally enriching and expose you to unique legal questions and provide valuable experience. But, perhaps unfairly, state court clerkships (even on the NYCOA) are simply not viewed as prestigious in the universe of T14 law professors. So is such a clerkship worth it? Yes if all you're looking for is a valuable experience. No if you want people to be impressed.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:45 pm

Fwiw I think the preceding is bad advice. Federal COA is more prestigious, sure, but federal district plus SSC is a common combination. It won’t be viewed as a bad or unusual path, SSCs frankly do more interesting work than most federal appellate courts, and it will provide time to write. And like OP notes clerkship prestige has declined dramatically as a relevant factor on the academic job market.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:07 am

Just don't apply with Judge Rivera as it doesn't seem like she'll be on the bench for much longer.

(What's her deal???)

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:45 pm
Fwiw I think the preceding is bad advice. Federal COA is more prestigious, sure, but federal district plus SSC is a common combination. It won’t be viewed as a bad or unusual path, SSCs frankly do more interesting work than most federal appellate courts, and it will provide time to write. And like OP notes clerkship prestige has declined dramatically as a relevant factor on the academic job market.
This might be true of some SSCs, but the NY COA specifically does very little actual work. Go look at their decisions. There are very few to begin with (because they very rarely grant leave). And many of their decisions are summary holdings (often followed by lengthy dissents on the merits by the likes of Rivera or Wilson). Particularly true in criminal cases, but not exclusively. It seems cushy, but not interesting.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:02 pm

The NYCOA has also developed a weird in-state reputation. First, as the prior poster pointed out, there have been very few reasoned opinions in recent years, as well as a sharp drop in leave grants. Second, the current chief judge is far more divisive than the well-liked Lippman and Kaye. Third, Cuomo's final two appointments were met with shrugs and confusion; that they were promoted over some really fierce competition made many suspect that they were worse-than-usual patronage.

I don't think we're quite at Manuel Real levels of caution, but at least downstate, the NYCOA isn't carrying the weight it once carried. It certainly doesn't have the in-state cachet of its counterpart in New Jersey.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:02 pm
The NYCOA has also developed a weird in-state reputation. First, as the prior poster pointed out, there have been very few reasoned opinions in recent years, as well as a sharp drop in leave grants. Second, the current chief judge is far more divisive than the well-liked Lippman and Kaye. Third, Cuomo's final two appointments were met with shrugs and confusion; that they were promoted over some really fierce competition made many suspect that they were worse-than-usual patronage.

I don't think we're quite at Manuel Real levels of caution, but at least downstate, the NYCOA isn't carrying the weight it once carried. It certainly doesn't have the in-state cachet of its counterpart in New Jersey.
"Shrugs and confusion" understates it, if anything. They were Cuomo cronies and everyone could see he was putting them there in anticipation of possible impeachment (on which NYCOA inexplicably gets to vote). Singas is another DA hack and Cannataro is at best an administrator, not a legal luminary. Troutman (Hochul's very recent pick) at least is a real judge. Her statewide reputation is TBD.

And since Rivera has outted herself as a weirdo willing to risk her job over presumably anti-vaccine woo-woo beliefs, there really aren't many NYCOA judges who have truly sterling reputations statewide.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:16 am
"Shrugs and confusion" understates it, if anything. They were Cuomo cronies and everyone could see he was putting them there in anticipation of possible impeachment (on which NYCOA inexplicably gets to vote).
Yeah, I suppose you're right. New York's celebrated hackdom had never been so obvious in recent memory. The Commission on Judicial Nomination is itself a foreordained-outcome factory, but its two lists contained some major heavy hitters. And yet Cuomo picked Cannataro and Singas over Michael Bosworth, the perpetually-overlooked Caitlin Halligan, and several sitting Appellate Division justices? It's tough for even the most stalwart NYS judiciary watcher to pretend that these picks were anything other than what they were. Give us some plausible deniability, for pete's sake.

I think that Garcia and Wilson remain good clerkships. Both judges are insanely well-connected. Rivera had some decent clout too, but her recent, uh, stances have hit her reputation hard. Fahey was a swell guy and excellent judge with deep connections in Western New York, and I wouldn't be surprised if Troutman ends up being roughly in the same league a good pick as well, especially for people who want to practice in that geographical region. But the Court itself is so deeply conservative and cautious right now that the experience itself would probably be deeply unsatisfying.

Maybe time will prove Cannataro and Singas to have been excellent dark-horse picks. And the Chief is term-limited out in a few years anyway. But for right now: eh.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:05 pm

What's the salary of a NYCOA clerk? I know clerks don't make big money but the differences between $60k vs. $90k (as random examples) mean a lot in terms of quality of life, and I can't find this information online.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:43 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:13 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:05 pm
Thoughts on doing a NYCOA clerkship after a federal district court one? I just got one for 2022-23, and I'm wondering if it's worth updating my applications for 2023-24 clerkships on the NYCOA or if I should instead withdraw those applications. I'm mainly just looking for interesting things to do with my time for a few years while I write articles on the side and attempt to move into academia.
If you already have a district court clerkship for 2022-23, you should withdraw your NYCOA clerkship applications and instead apply for clerkships on U.S. Court of Appeals. This is especially true given your interest in academia.
That's what I figured I'd hear, but simply wanted to know if the NYCOA offered anything unique to consider. I truthfully don't think where I clerk will be a deciding factor for whether I get an entry-level law professor position or not, though I'm sure both state supreme courts and federal appellate courts expose clerks to many interesting legal questions.
anyone know if a dct+COA clerkship gives much of a meaningful resume boost compared to just district court when looking at VAPs or tenure track positions? my sense is it has pretty much no added value

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:14 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:43 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:13 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:05 pm
Thoughts on doing a NYCOA clerkship after a federal district court one? I just got one for 2022-23, and I'm wondering if it's worth updating my applications for 2023-24 clerkships on the NYCOA or if I should instead withdraw those applications. I'm mainly just looking for interesting things to do with my time for a few years while I write articles on the side and attempt to move into academia.
If you already have a district court clerkship for 2022-23, you should withdraw your NYCOA clerkship applications and instead apply for clerkships on U.S. Court of Appeals. This is especially true given your interest in academia.
That's what I figured I'd hear, but simply wanted to know if the NYCOA offered anything unique to consider. I truthfully don't think where I clerk will be a deciding factor for whether I get an entry-level law professor position or not, though I'm sure both state supreme courts and federal appellate courts expose clerks to many interesting legal questions.
anyone know if a dct+COA clerkship gives much of a meaningful resume boost compared to just district court when looking at VAPs or tenure track positions? my sense is it has pretty much no added value
It certainly depends on several factors. TT hiring, as you likely know, is idiosyncratic as it's subject to the interests and bias of the particular faculty. So if a majority likes candidates to have clerkship experience, especially appellate clerkship experience, then a COA clerkship would give you a meaningful boost relative to zero appellate clerkship experience. It also likely depends on what your field is. If you write in a common law discipline (e.g., tort, property) or in state constitutional law then a COA clerkship versus just a federal district court clerkship would undoubtedly make you look better.

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Re: NY Court of Appeals clerkship

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:17 am

My gut reaction is that a COA wouldn’t add *that* much in terms of substance, but that academia is even worse about prestige whoring than the rest of the legal profession, so it could be a benefit for optics. Like if they have to choose btw you without a COA and a candidate with, I could see them going with the COA. Not sure this is a great reason for doing one, but I do think it could make a difference on the margins. COA clerks are fancier, whether that’s justified or not.

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