Is this dumb of me? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Top 5% at NYU/Columbia and since I am young and don't have a family, I am interested in clerking in places I probably will not be able to live in the future (for the experience). Thinking like non-competitive districts and circuits. To give a random example, a hypothetical "successful" clerkship application would see me doing a 10th circuit clerkship in Kansas and a district court clerkship in South Carolina. I know, that these are less "prestigious" than like an SDNY/2d Cir. lineup, but part of what attracts me to clerkships is the ability to live in a new, unfamiliar area for a year. (Note, I know that just 5%+ at NYU/CLS does not guarantee anything, I'm just wondering if I should be trying for the prestigious ones)

My question is if this is way too naive and dumb of me and I should instead be just trying my best to get on the most "prestigious" clerkship I can?

[Anonymous User]

Top 5% at NYU/Columbia and since I am young and don't have a family, I am interested in clerking in places I probably will not be able to live in the future (for the experience). Thinking like non-competitive districts and circuits. To give a random example, a hypothetical "successful" clerkship application would see me doing a 10th circuit clerkship in Kansas and a district court clerkship in South Carolina. I know, that these are less "prestigious" than like an SDNY/2d Cir. lineup, but part of what attracts me to clerkships is the ability to live in a new, unfamiliar area for a year. (Note, I know that just 5%+ at NYU/CLS does not guarantee anything, I'm just wondering if I should be trying for the prestigious ones)

My question is if this is way too naive and dumb of me and I should instead be just trying my best to get on the most "prestigious" clerkship I can?

I don't think it is particularly dumb because a lot of the best judges in the country live in random places. You can really have your cake and eat it too here.

[Anonymous User]

Do some internet research on feeder judges. Plenty live in random(ish) places. These include Wilkinson (4th Cir), Pryor (11th Cir), and Sutton (6th Cir). These non-DC/9th/2nd circuit judges might even be easier clerkships to secure than the other feeders. So yes, you can have your cake and eat it too.

[Anonymous User]

One question is whether the dockets of a particular district are appealing to you. I'm clerking in a busy district (think N.D.Cal./S.D.N.Y) with a diverse docket and I feel like I have more opportunities to get more reps in on a broader swath of substantive areas of the law (sometimes with excellent lawyering) than I would in a flyover district which I think is more beneficial for my professional development.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this at all - unless you’re with a feeder or one of the very very few actually disreputable judges, a clerkship is still a clerkship and you can have a great (or terrible) experience anywhere. I think it’s a little more convincing if you go places that you have no connection to, but where a lot of people would enjoy spending a year - more touristy places - but I’d find someone saying they wanted to experience more parts of the US kind of cool. (I clerked somewhere I had no connection to and across the country from where I practice now - it was a cool area and I really enjoyed living there and have a clerkship on my resume, still learned a lot despite being in the boonies, it all worked out.)

That said, to be more practical, what do you want to do after you clerk? That could make a difference, but mostly I think it won’t raise any eyebrows.

[lavarman84]

There's nothing wrong with the idea, but clerkships will generally carry the most value in their particular region/market. But yes, if you can land a more prestigious clerkship, you probably should. This is a snobby profession. Of course, there are plenty of prestigious clerkships in areas of the country that are unfamiliar to you.

[Anonymous User]

I realize that NYU and Columbia students tend to have a particularly myopic view of the nationwide legal market, but applying to clerkships nationally is the norm, not the exception.

[Anonymous User]

Original OP here. Thanks for all the responses.

Re having your cake and eating it too idea, I don't think I would be competitive for "those" judges like Sutton/Pryor etc... I am on Law Review, but I'm just inside the top 5% and don't have any big named Professors that are going to go to bat very strongly for me. From what I gathered, at NYU/CLS feeder/semi-feeder judges require you to be in the top 10-15 students period and have some strong Professor backing.

Great to hear though, that generally my plan is not that weird and doable. Any one who was in a similar position to me have any tips in how to express interest to these places without coming off as demeaning? Maybe I am overthinking things, but I would not want some of these Judges to get the impression that I see the places they live as some random place I can go to, to get away for a year or two. I truly just want to get out of my comfort zone and explore.

[Anonymous User]

Original OP here. Thanks for all the responses.

Re having your cake and eating it too idea, I don't think I would be competitive for "those" judges like Sutton/Pryor etc... I am on Law Review, but I'm just inside the top 5% and don't have any big named Professors that are going to go to bat very strongly for me. From what I gathered, at NYU/CLS feeder/semi-feeder judges require you to be in the top 10-15 students period and have some strong Professor backing.

Great to hear though, that generally my plan is not that weird and doable. Any one who was in a similar position to me have any tips in how to express interest to these places without coming off as demeaning? Maybe I am overthinking things, but I would not want some of these Judges to get the impression that I see the places they live as some random place I can go to, to get away for a year or two. I truly just want to get out of my comfort zone and explore.

You are overthinking it. Your reasons are good enough and you don't need to overstate the point. Like others have said, a federal clerkship is a federal clerkship and the norm is that you apply broadly because, as you acknowledged, being top 5% at a great law school isn't always enough to get a clerkship--let alone the clerkship you want.

Judges know that and expect to get applications from students across the country. If you go to an interview and a judge asks "why this district/circuit?" you can just be honest that you value the experience of clerking enough to have applied broadly and that it also serves as an opportunity to see a new part of the country.

[Anonymous User]

Original OP here. Thanks for all the responses.

Re having your cake and eating it too idea, I don't think I would be competitive for "those" judges like Sutton/Pryor etc... I am on Law Review, but I'm just inside the top 5% and don't have any big named Professors that are going to go to bat very strongly for me. From what I gathered, at NYU/CLS feeder/semi-feeder judges require you to be in the top 10-15 students period and have some strong Professor backing.

Great to hear though, that generally my plan is not that weird and doable. Any one who was in a similar position to me have any tips in how to express interest to these places without coming off as demeaning? Maybe I am overthinking things, but I would not want some of these Judges to get the impression that I see the places they live as some random place I can go to, to get away for a year or two. I truly just want to get out of my comfort zone and explore.

I wouldn't mention that you particularly want to clerk in somewhere out of the way in a cover letter. It will come across as weird.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t think you are dumb. But you need to apply 1) to as many of the judges you want to work for (even the top applicants maybe average 5 interviews for every 50 applications); 2) explain in the cover letter why you want to clerk in that area/ court (does that COA/ district court have more IP cases, Environmental cases, constitutional issues, class actions; or do you have an undergrad - family connections that you want to move closer to).

As other posters have said, think about where you want to end up/ what you want to do (do you want to work class actions on the west coast or Midwest then there certainly judges you want to target; do you want to be a FPD or AUSA - there are judges with that background).

I’m clerking in one of these fly over cities and we get applications from NYU/ CLS and other top law schools. Those applicants don’t get too far because usually we get local applicants who either were externes with us or have a few years of experience in our legal market. I have seen two applicants from outside the region get hired, but they were 1) starting in a nontrue term position and worked their way up or 2) had a school connection.

Good luck. Hope you get a nice judge and chambers where you learn and grow. Don’t over think this - it is a numbers game. You are going up against great candidates at every step - so give yourself as many chances as you can so I’d say to still apply to SDNY/2nd/DC.

[lavarman84]

Original OP here. Thanks for all the responses.

Re having your cake and eating it too idea, I don't think I would be competitive for "those" judges like Sutton/Pryor etc... I am on Law Review, but I'm just inside the top 5% and don't have any big named Professors that are going to go to bat very strongly for me. From what I gathered, at NYU/CLS feeder/semi-feeder judges require you to be in the top 10-15 students period and have some strong Professor backing.

Great to hear though, that generally my plan is not that weird and doable. Any one who was in a similar position to me have any tips in how to express interest to these places without coming off as demeaning? Maybe I am overthinking things, but I would not want some of these Judges to get the impression that I see the places they live as some random place I can go to, to get away for a year or two. I truly just want to get out of my comfort zone and explore.

I think that's a point you can make in the interview. You don't know where you plan to ultimately settle. You are open to living basically anywhere. And you want to experience a new location. Then, maybe have some specifics for why that particular place is appealing to you. I applied nationwide and interviewed in quite a few places I had no connections. I wasn't given a hard time for it.

[Anonymous User]

I'm went to a T6 and am now clerking somewhere I had no connection to / a state I had never been to and didn't plant to ever end up in. And it's great! A clerkship is a clerkship, it's great to apply widely and explore new parts of the country / new legal markets. I've learned a lot and am so glad a prof encouraged me to be flexible geographically.

[Anonymous User]

Some thoughts:

• Not clear to me that it will be "easier" for you to get these clerkships. There are enough people with "elite" credentials with local ties that you won't stand out that-that much in the applicant pool. Also, not uncommon for judges in smaller markets to prioritize ties / a sincere belief that you'll stay in the community for the long haul. (For whatever reason, and others please correct if I am wrong, NDGA and EDMI are particularly notorious for this - preferring locals to out-of-towners even if the out-of-towners absolutely blow away the locals on resume.)
• It can be a very lonely experience to move to a place where you don't know anyone, especially if you find the culture alienating or aren't the kind of person who easily makes friends. This can be a big deal if you are having a stressful time and don't have anyone to hang out with.
• A good friend of mine did two district clerkships - once when she graduated law school, in a "prestige" district (NDCA, SDNY, etc) and another when she was relocating to her home market in what is by no means a backwater but also by no means a major market (think EDPA, EDMO, NDTX). While all districts will have their share of whatever lawyering, she thought the second clerkship was far less enjoyable because the average level of advocacy was significantly worse.
• Think cautiously about the district court docket you're getting. For example, if you don't want to do patent, stay out of DDE. (This is less of an issue at the circuit level, though as I understand it CA3 has a relatively large immigration / bankruptcy docket and CA10 deals with - relatively speaking - a lot of Native American issues.)
• As to hiring you: unless you are trying to do some unicorn-level outcome, the shine of the appellate clerkship with your resume should be more than enough to make you a very competitive candidate. (People get that you have to clerk nationally these days.). The Columbia/NYU signal will be very helpful in NYC, too - people will get and believe your story without difficulty.