2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if it is a little early, but thought I'd start this thread. Wondering if there has been any movement already for 2023-2024 hiring and when to expect the most movement.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if it is a little early, but thought I'd start this thread. Wondering if there has been any movement already for 2023-2024 hiring and when to expect the most movement.

It is not too early lol. I know a decent chunk of judges have started filling these slots. It seems that having to hire 1Ls with one semester of grades last year has emboldened the judges to push hiring even earlier.

[Anonymous User]

Oh fuck my life.

Maybe by this point I'll have been working for ~2 years and can get something. But still...Jesus.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if it is a little early, but thought I'd start this thread. Wondering if there has been any movement already for 2023-2024 hiring and when to expect the most movement.

It is not too early lol. I know a decent chunk of judges have started filling these slots. It seems that having to hire 1Ls with one semester of grades last year has emboldened the judges to push hiring even earlier.

I assume this thread is a bit of a joke--even the off-plan cycle isn't to 2023 yet, 2023 off-plan will mostly fill this summer--but there are some off-plan judges who hire extraordinarily early. I know that Bibas, Newsom, Richardson, and O'Scannlain have hired in 1L spring before for example.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if it is a little early, but thought I'd start this thread. Wondering if there has been any movement already for 2023-2024 hiring and when to expect the most movement.

It is not too early lol. I know a decent chunk of judges have started filling these slots. It seems that having to hire 1Ls with one semester of grades last year has emboldened the judges to push hiring even earlier.

I assume this thread is a bit of a joke--even the off-plan cycle isn't to 2023 yet, 2023 off-plan will mostly fill this summer--but there are some off-plan judges who hire extraordinarily early. I know that Bibas, Newsom, Richardson, and O'Scannlain have hired in 1L spring before for example.

I'm not OP, but I know quite a few judges that have started filling slots for 2024-2025. Richard Leon was hiring students for 2023-2024 back in 2019. Hiring can be very early. Thinking about 2023-24 makes sense for some students now.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if it is a little early, but thought I'd start this thread. Wondering if there has been any movement already for 2023-2024 hiring and when to expect the most movement.

It is not too early lol. I know a decent chunk of judges have started filling these slots. It seems that having to hire 1Ls with one semester of grades last year has emboldened the judges to push hiring even earlier.

I assume this thread is a bit of a joke--even the off-plan cycle isn't to 2023 yet, 2023 off-plan will mostly fill this summer--but there are some off-plan judges who hire extraordinarily early. I know that Bibas, Newsom, Richardson, and O'Scannlain have hired in 1L spring before for example.

I'm not beholden to the plan, but curious when on-plan hiring will start having movement? I'm interested in COA and I've seen 40+ posts on OSCAR already for 2023-2024.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if it is a little early, but thought I'd start this thread. Wondering if there has been any movement already for 2023-2024 hiring and when to expect the most movement.

It is not too early lol. I know a decent chunk of judges have started filling these slots. It seems that having to hire 1Ls with one semester of grades last year has emboldened the judges to push hiring even earlier.

I assume this thread is a bit of a joke--even the off-plan cycle isn't to 2023 yet, 2023 off-plan will mostly fill this summer--but there are some off-plan judges who hire extraordinarily early. I know that Bibas, Newsom, Richardson, and O'Scannlain have hired in 1L spring before for example.

I'm not beholden to the plan, but curious when on-plan hiring will start having movement? I'm interested in COA and I've seen 40+ posts on OSCAR already for 2023-2024.

Plan judges can only hire 2Ls starting in June and most don't hire even 3Ls and alumni until then, but some do move earlier for 3Ls and alumni.

The overwhelming majority of judges are hiring for 2022 and/or 2023 this summer (largely depending on on vs. off plan, the latter is always a year ahead of the plan because they hire 1Ls). Getting too far ahead of the plan isn't really in anyone's interest--clerking as a midlevel isn't ideal, judges lose out on later-applying candidates, and judges can have trouble attracting clerks (e.g. last year there was a report of Katzmann getting turned down for Lohier). Even some big feeders like Fletcher, Tatel, and Watford aren't ahead at all. The big exceptions are SDNY and CA2, which tend to hire farther out, and some judges like Katsas who virtually exclusively hire double-clerks (I think Katsas is hiring for 2024).

[Anonymous User]

Many judges have already filled their 2023 slots. I will be clerking on 2/9/DC COA for 2023 and my judge has already filled all the slots.

I'm a 3L around top 15-20 percent at a T10 with LR. My judge is Republican appointed, and I'm on my school's FedSoc Board.

[Anonymous User]

Is Livingston going / has she gone?

[Chokenhauer]

I have a 2-year D. Ct. clerkship that starts in the fall. If I'm interested in a circuit clerkship for 2023-2024, when is the right time to apply? I'm hoping to get a letter of recommendation from my judge, but I can't imagine that they would want to write that for me before they've seen my work. If it helps, I'm applying broadly (on-plan/off-plan, mail/OSCAR, large/small markets, etc.).

[Anonymous User]

I have a 2-year D. Ct. clerkship that starts in the fall. If I'm interested in a circuit clerkship for 2023-2024, when is the right time to apply? I'm hoping to get a letter of recommendation from my judge, but I can't imagine that they would want to write that for me before they've seen my work. If it helps, I'm applying broadly (on-plan/off-plan, mail/OSCAR, large/small markets, etc.).

Can't hurt to apply now, though it's entirely judge dependent. I had not started with my first judge when I obtained a COA clerkship for 2023-24 and I know the second judge just called my first judge and asked about my interview. I also think having a first clerkship helped with getting my resume pulled off the pile for the second.

[Anonymous User]

I have a 2-year D. Ct. clerkship that starts in the fall. If I'm interested in a circuit clerkship for 2023-2024, when is the right time to apply? I'm hoping to get a letter of recommendation from my judge, but I can't imagine that they would want to write that for me before they've seen my work. If it helps, I'm applying broadly (on-plan/off-plan, mail/OSCAR, large/small markets, etc.).

Can't hurt to apply now, though it's entirely judge dependent. I had not started with my first judge when I obtained a COA clerkship for 2023-24 and I know the second judge just called my first judge and asked about my interview. I also think having a first clerkship helped with getting my resume pulled off the pile for the second.

Yeah, I just let my judge's assistant know that I was working on Circuit applications and then sent out apps for anything in 2023 or later. No dice yet, and no surprise.

[Anonymous User]

Go to CLS and our clerkship office is basically useless so wanted to ask in this thread.

I'm a 2L who'll have like a 3.7-3.85, secondary journal, working in V5 lit this summer. I want to clerk after getting some work experience so 2023 or 2024 but probably won't be able to get all recs together by 2022 Plan deadline bc two of my recs are probably from this semester and I want to wait to see how I did.

Can I apply like later in summer or 3L fall for 2023 or 2024 slots or do judges just not look at that time period at all? Any sense of how competitive my #s are 1/2nd/3rd Cir, SDNY, EDNY, other districts in those circuits? Our clerking office is not transparent so would love to get a sense.

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Go to CLS and our clerkship office is basically useless so wanted to ask in this thread.

I'm a 2L who'll have like a 3.7-3.85, secondary journal, working in V5 lit this summer. I want to clerk after getting some work experience so 2023 or 2024 but probably won't be able to get all recs together by 2022 Plan deadline bc two of my recs are probably from this semester and I want to wait to see how I did.

Can I apply like later in summer or 3L fall for 2023 or 2024 slots or do judges just not look at that time period at all? Any sense of how competitive my #s are 1/2nd/3rd Cir, SDNY, EDNY, other districts in those circuits? Our clerking office is not transparent so would love to get a sense.

Thanks!

Were you Kent 1L and are you on pace to be Kent 2L? Judging from the broad range that you gave for your GPA, I'm assuming you weren't Kent 1L, and that might matter for some of the judges on these Circuits. CLS places terribly in 1st Circuit, but the numbers for the 2nd Circuit are not too bad. Your professors and recommenders should know a lot of the judges in the NYC area, lean on them to get your applications pulled. Whether you have any big names on faculty in your corner will matter too.

You should also check OSCAR to see when the judges you are interested in are hiring. If they are only hiring for 2022-2023, you should be fine waiting post-plan, but I know many of the 2nd Circuit and SDNY/EDNY judges are hiring for much farther out.

[Anonymous User]

Go to CLS and our clerkship office is basically useless so wanted to ask in this thread.

I'm a 2L who'll have like a 3.7-3.85, secondary journal, working in V5 lit this summer. I want to clerk after getting some work experience so 2023 or 2024 but probably won't be able to get all recs together by 2022 Plan deadline bc two of my recs are probably from this semester and I want to wait to see how I did.

Can I apply like later in summer or 3L fall for 2023 or 2024 slots or do judges just not look at that time period at all? Any sense of how competitive my #s are 1/2nd/3rd Cir, SDNY, EDNY, other districts in those circuits? Our clerking office is not transparent so would love to get a sense.

Thanks!

Were you Kent 1L and are you on pace to be Kent 2L? Judging from the broad range that you gave for your GPA, I'm assuming you weren't Kent 1L, and that might matter for some of the judges on these Circuits. CLS places terribly in 1st Circuit, but the numbers for the 2nd Circuit are not too bad. Your professors and recommenders should know a lot of the judges in the NYC area, lean on them to get your applications pulled. Whether you have any big names on faculty in your corner will matter too.

You should also check OSCAR to see when the judges you are interested in are hiring. If they are only hiring for 2022-2023, you should be fine waiting post-plan, but I know many of the 2nd Circuit and SDNY/EDNY judges are hiring for much farther out.

Another CLS alum here, this is all right. If you’re closer to 3.7, 2nd circuit will be much tougher. You definitely need professors to help and some professors are more helpful than others, so try to ask around about that

[Anonymous User]

Go to CLS and our clerkship office is basically useless so wanted to ask in this thread.

I'm a 2L who'll have like a 3.7-3.85, secondary journal, working in V5 lit this summer. I want to clerk after getting some work experience so 2023 or 2024 but probably won't be able to get all recs together by 2022 Plan deadline bc two of my recs are probably from this semester and I want to wait to see how I did.

Can I apply like later in summer or 3L fall for 2023 or 2024 slots or do judges just not look at that time period at all? Any sense of how competitive my #s are 1/2nd/3rd Cir, SDNY, EDNY, other districts in those circuits? Our clerking office is not transparent so would love to get a sense.

Thanks!

Were you Kent 1L and are you on pace to be Kent 2L? Judging from the broad range that you gave for your GPA, I'm assuming you weren't Kent 1L, and that might matter for some of the judges on these Circuits. CLS places terribly in 1st Circuit, but the numbers for the 2nd Circuit are not too bad. Your professors and recommenders should know a lot of the judges in the NYC area, lean on them to get your applications pulled. Whether you have any big names on faculty in your corner will matter too.

You should also check OSCAR to see when the judges you are interested in are hiring. If they are only hiring for 2022-2023, you should be fine waiting post-plan, but I know many of the 2nd Circuit and SDNY/EDNY judges are hiring for much farther out.

Another CLS alum here, this is all right. If you’re closer to 3.7, 2nd circuit will be much tougher. You definitely need professors to help and some professors are more helpful than others, so try to ask around about that

Thanks for this, really helpful! Yeah had 3.67 on three grades in 1L so Stone but have a 3.8 currently so just wanted to give range bc don't know grades for this semester (On pace to and hopefully will get Kent for 2L). It's a little weird bc of the pass/fail spring so not sure how it'll all be evaluated.

Surprised that a 3.7 isn't that competitive for 2nd cir. but such is the clerkship game these days I guess. Hopefully can have some profs in my corner to make calls.

Last question: assuming one class doesn't go as well as I hoped, should I take advantage of getting one P/F this semester? Is a Pass better than a B+ for clerking purposes? I feel like someone pulling a transcript would prolly prefer the former.

[Anonymous User]

Go to CLS and our clerkship office is basically useless so wanted to ask in this thread.

I'm a 2L who'll have like a 3.7-3.85, secondary journal, working in V5 lit this summer. I want to clerk after getting some work experience so 2023 or 2024 but probably won't be able to get all recs together by 2022 Plan deadline bc two of my recs are probably from this semester and I want to wait to see how I did.

Can I apply like later in summer or 3L fall for 2023 or 2024 slots or do judges just not look at that time period at all? Any sense of how competitive my #s are 1/2nd/3rd Cir, SDNY, EDNY, other districts in those circuits? Our clerking office is not transparent so would love to get a sense.

Thanks!

Were you Kent 1L and are you on pace to be Kent 2L? Judging from the broad range that you gave for your GPA, I'm assuming you weren't Kent 1L, and that might matter for some of the judges on these Circuits. CLS places terribly in 1st Circuit, but the numbers for the 2nd Circuit are not too bad. Your professors and recommenders should know a lot of the judges in the NYC area, lean on them to get your applications pulled. Whether you have any big names on faculty in your corner will matter too.

You should also check OSCAR to see when the judges you are interested in are hiring. If they are only hiring for 2022-2023, you should be fine waiting post-plan, but I know many of the 2nd Circuit and SDNY/EDNY judges are hiring for much farther out.

Another CLS alum here, this is all right. If you’re closer to 3.7, 2nd circuit will be much tougher. You definitely need professors to help and some professors are more helpful than others, so try to ask around about that

Thanks for this, really helpful! Yeah had 3.67 on three grades in 1L so Stone but have a 3.8 currently so just wanted to give range bc don't know grades for this semester (On pace to and hopefully will get Kent for 2L). It's a little weird bc of the pass/fail spring so not sure how it'll all be evaluated.

Surprised that a 3.7 isn't that competitive for 2nd cir. but such is the clerkship game these days I guess. Hopefully can have some profs in my corner to make calls.

My advice is to go to the alumni database and look up the people with clerkships on the 2nd/SDNY & EDNY. You'll see a pattern, and it'll also give you a rough sense of when those judges are hiring.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for this, really helpful! Yeah had 3.67 on three grades in 1L so Stone but have a 3.8 currently so just wanted to give range bc don't know grades for this semester (On pace to and hopefully will get Kent for 2L). It's a little weird bc of the pass/fail spring so not sure how it'll all be evaluated.

Surprised that a 3.7 isn't that competitive for 2nd cir. but such is the clerkship game these days I guess. Hopefully can have some profs in my corner to make calls.

Last question: assuming one class doesn't go as well as I hoped, should I take advantage of getting one P/F this semester? Is a Pass better than a B+ for clerking purposes? I feel like someone pulling a transcript would prolly prefer the former.

If you are at 3.7 or so, about 40 people in the class have a higher GPA than you, and you are then competing with people that are applying after working/clerking, as well as the rest of the T-14. The 2nd Circuit is incredibly competitive and lots of people want to live in NYC, for better or for worse. You need something that tells the judge they want to pull your application off the pile.

I can't speak for all judges, as mine barely understands how CLS's grades work normally. But we would notice if you had a Pass for a class we care about and probably assume the worst. I don't think we'd pay much attention to a Pass for a paper, some seminars, or anything else like that.

[Chokenhauer]

I have a 2-year D. Ct. clerkship that starts in the fall. If I'm interested in a circuit clerkship for 2023-2024, when is the right time to apply? I'm hoping to get a letter of recommendation from my judge, but I can't imagine that they would want to write that for me before they've seen my work. If it helps, I'm applying broadly (on-plan/off-plan, mail/OSCAR, large/small markets, etc.).

Can't hurt to apply now, though it's entirely judge dependent. I had not started with my first judge when I obtained a COA clerkship for 2023-24 and I know the second judge just called my first judge and asked about my interview. I also think having a first clerkship helped with getting my resume pulled off the pile for the second.

That makes sense. I’m just facing an uphill battle based on my school ranking, so I thought that I might not stand out unless I had that recommendation.

[Anonymous User]

Asking as a 3L who hasn't received any meaningful guidance from my clerkship office since June 2020: Is it generally true that judges who are predominantly on-plan won't start hiring 3Ls/grads for 2023 until the plan opens in June?

[Anonymous User]

Asking as a 3L who hasn't received any meaningful guidance from my clerkship office since June 2020: Is it generally true that judges who are predominantly on-plan won't start hiring 3Ls/grads for 2023 until the plan opens in June?

Nope, not necessarily. I would try to get your apps in before the plan opens.

[Anonymous User]

Asking as a 3L who hasn't received any meaningful guidance from my clerkship office since June 2020: Is it generally true that judges who are predominantly on-plan won't start hiring 3Ls/grads for 2023 until the plan opens in June?

Nope, not necessarily. I would try to get your apps in before the plan opens.

+1. apply early and often. Source: secured several interviews and two clerkships applying during 3L and post graduation.

[Anonymous User]

Asking as a 3L who hasn't received any meaningful guidance from my clerkship office since June 2020: Is it generally true that judges who are predominantly on-plan won't start hiring 3Ls/grads for 2023 until the plan opens in June?

At least 2 judges have said they will start to review 3L/grad apps on May 24 or that you won't be considered if you apply after that date, although obviously others have been hiring throughout the year. Not sure if May 24 is coincidence or if it's just because it's the first Monday after which most schools have probably released 3L grades. I don't think there's any formal reason for it.

[Anonymous User]

Is it appropriate to call chambers directly to see if they are accepting applications for 2023-24? My Clerkship Office does not provide the information.

[Anonymous User]

Is it appropriate to call chambers directly to see if they are accepting applications for 2023-24? My Clerkship Office does not provide the information.

I’m interested in this too