Common Clerkship App Mistakes Forum

[nonamelawstudent]

Curious if any clerks can speak to common application mistakes you see that may take an applicant out of a pile. Beyond typos, are there other common turn-offs you see?

Just trying to figure out what is wrong with my application. I have applied to about 150 judges and have been unable to grab so much as an interview (T6, not graduating magna cum laude, but decent grades, and law review).

[namefromplace]

The best way to answer the actual question you're asking here is to meet with members of your school's clerkship committee, show them your materials, and see if they notice any problems. I don't think you're going to get anything here other than vague platitudes or more idiosyncratic preferences from individual chambers.

[Anonymous User]

Curious if any clerks can speak to common application mistakes you see that may take an applicant out of a pile. Beyond typos, are there other common turn-offs you see?

Just trying to figure out what is wrong with my application. I have applied to about 150 judges and have been unable to grab so much as an interview (T6, not graduating magna cum laude, but decent grades, and law review).

Y/S grad, and current district court clerk with COA clerkship to follow. Biggest mistake is not having your recommenders call your top-choice judges on your behalf!

Keep the faith. I also applied to a lot of judges before getting bites.

[nixy]

Yeah, I think it's not so much doing something to get eliminated from the pile, as not having something to get you chosen from the pile. I can say that the things that turned me off were long cover letters rehashing the resume, and typos, but not having those isn't necessarily going to get you noticed, either.

(As for long cover letters rehashing the resume: I don't think this would get you eliminated if you had stellar credentials otherwise, it's more than it's usually part of an attempt to make sort of average credentials look better. Typos might not get you eliminated if you had the otherwise stellar credentials and/or connections, I suppose, but they're pretty bad. But that's hardly a revelation.)

[Pennoyer v. Meh]

I'll admit, I'm curious about the cover letter approach. When people say "too much/too long", is a paragraph on law school stuff and a paragraph on work experience (e.g., 2L summer associate work) worth keeping in? Or not? Should the cover letter instead just be a paragraph on background/why clerking/this clerkship, and then a paragraph about attachments/recommenders? I don't want to look like I'm puffing up nothing special.

[nixy]

Since I brought it up: it partly depends on how long your paragraphs are, but while it’s fair to reference law school and work experience, I’d combine that into one paragraph. For instance, I don’t think it’s really necessary to say anything about what you did 2L summer in your cover letter - that is, you could reference working at firm X (if that’s what you did), but you don’t need to say more about it in the letter. (Not claiming to be a model, but I had one sentence of law school stuff, one sentence of law job stuff, and one sentence of pre-law school work.)

[Chokenhauer]

Since I brought it up: it partly depends on how long your paragraphs are, but while it’s fair to reference law school and work experience, I’d combine that into one paragraph. For instance, I don’t think it’s really necessary to say anything about what you did 2L summer in your cover letter - that is, you could reference working at firm X (if that’s what you did), but you don’t need to say more about it in the letter. (Not claiming to be a model, but I had one sentence of law school stuff, one sentence of law job stuff, and one sentence of pre-law school work.)

Does this depend on school? For people from shit-tier schools, should we give a bit more detail and try to talk up a prior clerkship if we’re looking to jump to another higher court?

[nixy]

I don’t think it’s as different as people sometimes assume. I think you should absolutely mention the clerkship in your cover letter, but I don’t think you need to “talk it up.” Everyone knows what a clerkship is, and it’s the fact of having the clerkship that’s significant, not anything you can say about it beyond that. Even if there were something particularly unusual or distinctive about what you did during that clerkship, you can’t really talk about that stuff freely most of the time anyway.

I get that it feels easier for (say) Harvard people to swan in and apply without actively selling themselves, but to the extent you want do anything differently from a shit-tier school, IMHO it’s to give a little sense of yourself as a person rather than go into a lot of resume-like detail. So if you have connections to the area, or to the judge, talk those up; or you have some kind of unusual work experience or something that might stick in someone’s brain, maybe mention that. Your resume is the place to provide details of your law school and work experience though. The cover letter is at most a preview of coming attractions.

At least, that’s my take on it; others may disagree and a lot of this is pretty subjective. And like I said, I don’t think a resume-rehash cover letter is going to really count against you if you’re a stellar candidate. It’s the qualifications that matter most, and I suspect cover letters only make a difference on the extreme margins. So I don’t want people to fixate too much on my comment about them.

[stoopkid13]

Agree that without actually reviewing OP's application, any advice here will be of limited value.

I think I've seen more applicants shoot themselves in the foot by submitting a bad writing sample than a bad cover letter. TBH, I never really cared if the cover letter re-hashed the resume, or was three sentences saying "I am a 3L at X school. I am applying for a 20XX term clerkship. Here's my stuff." But I do remember always being a bit heartbroken when I read an application that was great on paper, with a writing sample that had typos, didn't show their legal analysis, or was just not well-written.

[Anonymous User]

Curious if any clerks can speak to common application mistakes you see that may take an applicant out of a pile. Beyond typos, are there other common turn-offs you see?

Just trying to figure out what is wrong with my application. I have applied to about 150 judges and have been unable to grab so much as an interview (T6, not graduating magna cum laude, but decent grades, and law review).

Make sure your OSCAR grade sheet is typo-free and complete.

I am hopefully the only person dumb enough to do this, but I mistakenly left off a class in which I did well (it was a weird, year-long, multi-component class so it showed up in its own section on my official transcript and I somehow forgot to copy it over). I got noticeably more interest after I fixed it and I doubt that was a coincidence.

Obviously proof your cover letter, resume, and writing sample, but don't forget your grade sheet and triple-check that you copied everything over correctly.

[mjb447]

Yeah, many applicants don't seem to spend enough time on the writing sample. Obviously, you want your cover letter to be as good as possible, but the contents are always going to be limited by background, and some applications are just going to be pretty vanilla no matter what. With the w/s, you can write about virtually any legal problem or issue and polish until you're thrilled with it (at least as far as legal writing can be thrilling). Also, writing is most of what clerks do, so many judges view it as a very important proxy for what they do. (That said, I think it'll be the rare writing sample that, by itself, does much to get you out of the big pile - as you say, it's a place where a lot of otherwise decent candidates lose points unnecessarily, and I think it can give a *small* favorable bump.)

Agree that without actually reviewing OP's application, any advice here will be of limited value.

I think I've seen more applicants shoot themselves in the foot by submitting a bad writing sample than a bad cover letter. TBH, I never really cared if the cover letter re-hashed the resume, or was three sentences saying "I am a 3L at X school. I am applying for a 20XX term clerkship. Here's my stuff." But I do remember always being a bit heartbroken when I read an application that was great on paper, with a writing sample that had typos, didn't show their legal analysis, or was just not well-written.

[nixy]

Agree that without actually reviewing OP's application, any advice here will be of limited value.

I think I've seen more applicants shoot themselves in the foot by submitting a bad writing sample than a bad cover letter. TBH, I never really cared if the cover letter re-hashed the resume, or was three sentences saying "I am a 3L at X school. I am applying for a 20XX term clerkship. Here's my stuff." But I do remember always being a bit heartbroken when I read an application that was great on paper, with a writing sample that had typos, didn't show their legal analysis, or was just not well-written.

Oh yeah, absolutely agree with this. My experience has been that we didn’t get to the writing sample until after initial cuts based on the resume, so it’s not going to get you pulled from the pile, but yeah, a WS is way more significant than a cover letter and can definitely put you out of the running. I just assumed people would know not to have typos in their samples, and that if they can’t pick what shows their legal analysis or can’t write well, they’re just not very good candidates.

[mjb447]

Agree that without actually reviewing OP's application, any advice here will be of limited value.

I think I've seen more applicants shoot themselves in the foot by submitting a bad writing sample than a bad cover letter. TBH, I never really cared if the cover letter re-hashed the resume, or was three sentences saying "I am a 3L at X school. I am applying for a 20XX term clerkship. Here's my stuff." But I do remember always being a bit heartbroken when I read an application that was great on paper, with a writing sample that had typos, didn't show their legal analysis, or was just not well-written.

Oh yeah, absolutely agree with this. My experience has been that we didn’t get to the writing sample until after initial cuts based on the resume, so it’s not going to get you pulled from the pile, but yeah, a WS is way more significant than a cover letter and can definitely put you out of the running. I just assumed people would know not to have typos in their samples, and that if they can’t pick what shows their legal analysis or can’t write well, they’re just not very good candidates.

An issue I sometimes saw was a candidate picking a sample that might have been fine for its original purpose but assumed more familiarity with the subject matter and/or more time with the sample than we could give it. If someone made it to the stage where chambers was reviewing the writing sample, the initial review really wouldn't last that long, and it wouldn't be great for the candidate if chambers couldn't make sense of the sample (and recognize it as well written) pretty quickly. (I remember getting a lot of advice during application season that a good sample effectively grapples with a complex or difficult issue - I think it's much easier to identify a complex issue than to objectively consider whether you've really grappled with it AND communicated that grappling well.)

[beepboopbeep]

Agree that without actually reviewing OP's application, any advice here will be of limited value.

I think I've seen more applicants shoot themselves in the foot by submitting a bad writing sample than a bad cover letter. TBH, I never really cared if the cover letter re-hashed the resume, or was three sentences saying "I am a 3L at X school. I am applying for a 20XX term clerkship. Here's my stuff." But I do remember always being a bit heartbroken when I read an application that was great on paper, with a writing sample that had typos, didn't show their legal analysis, or was just not well-written.

Agree 100%. In particular, I'd advise applicants to revise their writing sample based on their current writing ability if the original context was older or early in law school (e.g. a 1L legal writing assignment). Many judges want samples that show only the applicant's writing with other people's edits. But I have never seen a posting prohibit editing your sample on your own, and it was not obvious to me when I first started applying that it was okay to do that. Even if you wrote your sample a month ago, it may still make sense to edit it to add context for clerks and judges who will be reading and evaluating the sample fairly quickly.

Even if we had OP's packet, I'm not sure us former clerks can make a massive difference barring some unusual error. In my experience, most "No's" are based mainly or exclusively on school/grades (or just not getting out of the pile, for whatever reason) and aren't easily fixable at the point you're sending out clerkship apps. Writing sample and recommenders are probably the two exceptions that can result in a No at a point where someone was in relatively serious consideration. I guess I half-disagree with some of the advice above to the effect of cover letter doesn't make a difference -- I think it can if it notes specific points in your favor that a judge idiosyncratically prefers that aren't on your resume, which you can (rarely) figure out if you're able to talk to a judge's former clerks -- but I agree to the extent that it rarely tanks people. Of course, most of us have seen the inside on one or two chambers at most and there's a wide variety of practices and preferences out there.

[purplegoldtornado]

With respect to writing samples, could we submit notes that we wrote for Law Review? Published or not?

[beepboopbeep]

With respect to writing samples, could we submit notes that we wrote for Law Review? Published or not?

Tons of applicants do this, but most notes/comments are way too long. Please do not submit your entire 80-page draft. Excerpt it.

Speaking just for myself, I don't really care whether it was published or not. I know nothing about how editorial decisions are made at your law review and how many / what percent of student comments get published. Like, it is of course better if it's published, for purely gold-star-conferring reasons. But really I just want to know if you will write clear, cogent analysis.

[purplegoldtornado]

With respect to writing samples, could we submit notes that we wrote for Law Review? Published or not?

Tons of applicants do this, but most notes/comments are way too long. Please do not submit your entire 80-page draft. Excerpt it.

Speaking just for myself, I don't really care whether it was published or not. I know nothing about how editorial decisions are made at your law review and how many / what percent of student comments get published. Like, it is of course better if it's published, for purely gold-star-conferring reasons. But really I just want to know if you will write clear, cogent analysis.

What's the usual length for a writing sample then? My note was only around 25 pages. Additionally, I could just send in my analysis. The only real writing sample I have is from my 1L fall.

[beepboopbeep]

With respect to writing samples, could we submit notes that we wrote for Law Review? Published or not?

Tons of applicants do this, but most notes/comments are way too long. Please do not submit your entire 80-page draft. Excerpt it.

Speaking just for myself, I don't really care whether it was published or not. I know nothing about how editorial decisions are made at your law review and how many / what percent of student comments get published. Like, it is of course better if it's published, for purely gold-star-conferring reasons. But really I just want to know if you will write clear, cogent analysis.

What's the usual length for a writing sample then? My note was only around 25 pages. Additionally, I could just send in my analysis. The only real writing sample I have is from my 1L fall.

At least when I was applying, most postings had 10 page limits for writing samples, or sometimes 15. The ones that didn't tended not to have a limit at all. But it's probably good to keep it short.

I don't think it's a bad approach to take your 1L fall memo/brief/whatever and heavily revise it based on how you write now. It's a pain to do. But it really is one of the only things you can do right now to improve your application packet. Totally agree with whoever above said it seems like applicants often just don't put much work or thought into the writing sample, and that is probably a mistake for clerkship applications at least.

[Anonymous User]

I used a 15-page excerpt from my LR comment and did very well on the clerkship market last year. I also used a 10-page excerpt from my 1L brief for judges that wanted something ten pages long or something that was entirely my own work. I didn't save a writing sample from my 1L summer, or have a good sample from a 2L seminar or clinic, but I believe those are the other options. The clerkship cycle is too early for you to use anything from 2L summer.

[nixy]

Yeah, depending when you're applying, your 1L brief may be the best option. I think the best samples are practical rather than law review notes, but if your note is the best thing you've done, go with that. I think something actually written by you for a real job is ideal, but not everyone has the chance to submit something like that.

[mjb447]

Broadly agree - a practical sample is usually better than a note (a note is fine if it's what you have, but it's not a great analogue for chambers work), a sample should usually be about 10-15 pages, and publication status doesn't really matter.

During the application process, I know that I was tempted to say, "well, I know this memo was pretty good back when I wrote it, so I just have to really scour it for typos before it's good to go," but you can probably do a lot better if you revise in light of your expected audience and any improvements you've made in your writing skills.

[TheoO]

Asking for a friend who doesnt have an account here: thoughts on submitting a cover letter via the Oscar text editor vs uploading a PDF? Text editor has been easier in that OSCAR auto fills it for each judge. His recommendations were also done using the Oscar text editor for auto fill purposes.

[Anonymous User]

It really depends on the Judge, so I would first suggest researching the Judge and seeing if your school has any former students who have clerked for that Judge. For instance, I'm currently clerking for a SDNY Judge, and one thing my Judge dislikes is when students email chambers their application and subsequently point out that they're currently at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, or any other supposedly prestigious school. For instance, the subject line will read "[Harvard], [Clerkship Application], [Student name]". To my Judge, it comes across as wildly pretentious, and he does not hire anyone with even a hint of pretentiousness.

[Anonymous User]

It really depends on the Judge, so I would first suggest researching the Judge and seeing if your school has any former students who have clerked for that Judge. For instance, I'm currently clerking for a SDNY Judge, and one thing my Judge dislikes is when students email chambers their application and subsequently point out that they're currently at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, or any other supposedly prestigious school. For instance, the subject line will read "[Harvard], [Clerkship Application], [Student name]". To my Judge, it comes across as wildly pretentious, and he does not hire anyone with even a hint of pretentiousness.

Wrong thread maybe? This doesn’t respond to the question

For the question, my clerkship office told me to upload PDFs so I did, but you have to be careful to get the right one to the right judge and triple-check, it’s hard to manage with a hundred.

[nixy]

It responds to the original question asking for common application mistakes (though I agree it was kind of confusing coming directly after a very different question).