Claiming UI between clerkship and firm gig?

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Claiming UI between clerkship and firm gig?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:23 pm

I've wrapping up a clerkship soon and will be starting a new job a few weeks after that. In our separation paperwork, HR included a guide to claiming unemployment benefits following the clerkship. Does anyone have experience claiming UI in this situation? Seems a bit iffy given my circumstances, but presumably HR is familiar with this and them including the form suggests that some number of clerks do claim, though most clerks are usually able to line up gigs for after their clerkships.

nixy

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Re: Claiming UI between clerkship and firm gig?

Post by nixy » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:24 pm

I would imagine that's a pro forma thing where anyone who separates from the court gets the UI form. I'm not sure how it would apply to a clerkship b/c it's not like you got fired or laid off - your term just ended (though it could well vary by state).

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polareagle

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Re: Claiming UI between clerkship and firm gig?

Post by polareagle » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:41 am

nixy wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:24 pm
I would imagine that's a pro forma thing where anyone who separates from the court gets the UI form. I'm not sure how it would apply to a clerkship b/c it's not like you got fired or laid off - your term just ended (though it could well vary by state).
I think Nixy is right, it sounds like it's part of the standard set of forms you get on leaving federal employment. Also, depending on your state, you also might not qualify for unemployment unless you're actively looking for a new job. I don't think sitting around waiting for your next gig to start would count.

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mjb447

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Re: Claiming UI between clerkship and firm gig?

Post by mjb447 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:44 am

FWIW, I've never heard of anyone doing that.

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Re: Claiming UI between clerkship and firm gig?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:08 am

I know that the work search requirements vary state by state, but don't nearly all states require you to certify that you are willing and able to accept work each week? If you're just taking a break for a couple of weeks before your new job starts I think that certification might come under a little scrutiny...

FWIW, I think it would be a very different situation if you are at one of the firms that deferred to January without a stipend or something. That's basically a "pre-furlough" in my eyes, and if you're not being given income to not work this fall, you would appear to be pretty squarely eligible for UI. And if Congress ever gets around to passing more COVID-related relief, that would be even clearer- all the firms are only deferring bc of COVID happening. Seems like there would be a big difference between trying to get UI during your couple of weeks of break (where I doubt you'd really accept an offer to do more work) and during months of deferral.

Totally agree on the UI forms from HR. They're not giving you advice, just standard forms for separation of employment. Although I don't think that the fact that you weren't terminated means you're UI-ineligible, you had a job, it ended, and now you don't. If you're ready and willing to work, I think that's enough to qualify (setting aside the issue I raised above).

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Re: Claiming UI between clerkship and firm gig?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:08 am
I know that the work search requirements vary state by state, but don't nearly all states require you to certify that you are willing and able to accept work each week? If you're just taking a break for a couple of weeks before your new job starts I think that certification might come under a little scrutiny...

FWIW, I think it would be a very different situation if you are at one of the firms that deferred to January without a stipend or something. That's basically a "pre-furlough" in my eyes, and if you're not being given income to not work this fall, you would appear to be pretty squarely eligible for UI. And if Congress ever gets around to passing more COVID-related relief, that would be even clearer- all the firms are only deferring bc of COVID happening. Seems like there would be a big difference between trying to get UI during your couple of weeks of break (where I doubt you'd really accept an offer to do more work) and during months of deferral.

Totally agree on the UI forms from HR. They're not giving you advice, just standard forms for separation of employment. Although I don't think that the fact that you weren't terminated means you're UI-ineligible, you had a job, it ended, and now you don't. If you're ready and willing to work, I think that's enough to qualify (setting aside the issue I raised above).
I agree with this. Although it will depend on the state, I think people whose start dates were pushed back have a good shot at UI for the 4-5 months between clerking and the firm job. My understanding is that many states are treating people whose employment was postponed as those who are unable to work due to no fault of their own, and some states are even waiving the requirement that you actively look for new work if you have a job that's postponed because of COVID. (And leaving temporary or term-based employment isn't like quitting a job).

But it seems dicier to try and get UI for just having a 3-4 week break between jobs. This is especially true if you could have ended a week or two later with your judge. Having a few weeks between jobs is normal. (Also, FWIW, I don't think claiming UI for this kind of few-week break between jobs is really in the "spirit" of what UI is for).

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Re: Claiming UI between clerkship and firm gig?

Post by JustMe83 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:08 am
I know that the work search requirements vary state by state, but don't nearly all states require you to certify that you are willing and able to accept work each week? If you're just taking a break for a couple of weeks before your new job starts I think that certification might come under a little scrutiny...

FWIW, I think it would be a very different situation if you are at one of the firms that deferred to January without a stipend or something. That's basically a "pre-furlough" in my eyes, and if you're not being given income to not work this fall, you would appear to be pretty squarely eligible for UI. And if Congress ever gets around to passing more COVID-related relief, that would be even clearer- all the firms are only deferring bc of COVID happening. Seems like there would be a big difference between trying to get UI during your couple of weeks of break (where I doubt you'd really accept an offer to do more work) and during months of deferral.

Totally agree on the UI forms from HR. They're not giving you advice, just standard forms for separation of employment. Although I don't think that the fact that you weren't terminated means you're UI-ineligible, you had a job, it ended, and now you don't. If you're ready and willing to work, I think that's enough to qualify (setting aside the issue I raised above).
I agree with this. Although it will depend on the state, I think people whose start dates were pushed back have a good shot at UI for the 4-5 months between clerking and the firm job. My understanding is that many states are treating people whose employment was postponed as those who are unable to work due to no fault of their own, and some states are even waiving the requirement that you actively look for new work if you have a job that's postponed because of COVID. (And leaving temporary or term-based employment isn't like quitting a job).

But it seems dicier to try and get UI for just having a 3-4 week break between jobs. This is especially true if you could have ended a week or two later with your judge. Having a few weeks between jobs is normal. (Also, FWIW, I don't think claiming UI for this kind of few-week break between jobs is really in the "spirit" of what UI is for).
I looked into this under my state's law and it seems like a clerk would be eligible for UI at the end of their clerkship because the clerk was not fired for cause and did not quit voluntarily - the position just ended because the new clerks have to start. It's akin to being hired for a project and laid off at the end of it. While OP might be able to collect UI for the three weeks before their new job starts if they actually applied to other jobs during this time, I would not want to risk getting hauled in front of the department of unemployment and questioned about this situation, esp. as an attorney.

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Re: Claiming UI between clerkship and firm gig?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:08 am
I know that the work search requirements vary state by state, but don't nearly all states require you to certify that you are willing and able to accept work each week? If you're just taking a break for a couple of weeks before your new job starts I think that certification might come under a little scrutiny...

FWIW, I think it would be a very different situation if you are at one of the firms that deferred to January without a stipend or something. That's basically a "pre-furlough" in my eyes, and if you're not being given income to not work this fall, you would appear to be pretty squarely eligible for UI. And if Congress ever gets around to passing more COVID-related relief, that would be even clearer- all the firms are only deferring bc of COVID happening. Seems like there would be a big difference between trying to get UI during your couple of weeks of break (where I doubt you'd really accept an offer to do more work) and during months of deferral.

Totally agree on the UI forms from HR. They're not giving you advice, just standard forms for separation of employment. Although I don't think that the fact that you weren't terminated means you're UI-ineligible, you had a job, it ended, and now you don't. If you're ready and willing to work, I think that's enough to qualify (setting aside the issue I raised above).
I agree with this. Although it will depend on the state, I think people whose start dates were pushed back have a good shot at UI for the 4-5 months between clerking and the firm job. My understanding is that many states are treating people whose employment was postponed as those who are unable to work due to no fault of their own, and some states are even waiving the requirement that you actively look for new work if you have a job that's postponed because of COVID. (And leaving temporary or term-based employment isn't like quitting a job).

But it seems dicier to try and get UI for just having a 3-4 week break between jobs. This is especially true if you could have ended a week or two later with your judge. Having a few weeks between jobs is normal. (Also, FWIW, I don't think claiming UI for this kind of few-week break between jobs is really in the "spirit" of what UI is for).
This has been my experience. I haven't actually received any benefits yet, but I apparently qualify based on a firm deferral and my state is not requiring claimants to actively look for work during the pandemic.

The one hitch is firm advances/stipends. My state defines "bonus," "special payment," etc., as payments from a prior employer; I didn't do an SA at the firm, so advances/stipends literally fall outside all the definitions of reportable forms of income. But I want to report them if they would at all affect my benefits and obviously don't want to be accused of hiding income. Naturally, though, it's impossible to get through to anyone at the department (no one picks up the phone and no one responds to emails) so I'm in limbo until I get a call back about them.

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Re: Claiming UI between clerkship and firm gig?

Post by Necho2 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:45 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:08 am
I know that the work search requirements vary state by state, but don't nearly all states require you to certify that you are willing and able to accept work each week? If you're just taking a break for a couple of weeks before your new job starts I think that certification might come under a little scrutiny...

FWIW, I think it would be a very different situation if you are at one of the firms that deferred to January without a stipend or something. That's basically a "pre-furlough" in my eyes, and if you're not being given income to not work this fall, you would appear to be pretty squarely eligible for UI. And if Congress ever gets around to passing more COVID-related relief, that would be even clearer- all the firms are only deferring bc of COVID happening. Seems like there would be a big difference between trying to get UI during your couple of weeks of break (where I doubt you'd really accept an offer to do more work) and during months of deferral.

Totally agree on the UI forms from HR. They're not giving you advice, just standard forms for separation of employment. Although I don't think that the fact that you weren't terminated means you're UI-ineligible, you had a job, it ended, and now you don't. If you're ready and willing to work, I think that's enough to qualify (setting aside the issue I raised above).
I agree with this. Although it will depend on the state, I think people whose start dates were pushed back have a good shot at UI for the 4-5 months between clerking and the firm job. My understanding is that many states are treating people whose employment was postponed as those who are unable to work due to no fault of their own, and some states are even waiving the requirement that you actively look for new work if you have a job that's postponed because of COVID. (And leaving temporary or term-based employment isn't like quitting a job).

But it seems dicier to try and get UI for just having a 3-4 week break between jobs. This is especially true if you could have ended a week or two later with your judge. Having a few weeks between jobs is normal. (Also, FWIW, I don't think claiming UI for this kind of few-week break between jobs is really in the "spirit" of what UI is for).
This has been my experience. I haven't actually received any benefits yet, but I apparently qualify based on a firm deferral and my state is not requiring claimants to actively look for work during the pandemic.

The one hitch is firm advances/stipends. My state defines "bonus," "special payment," etc., as payments from a prior employer; I didn't do an SA at the firm, so advances/stipends literally fall outside all the definitions of reportable forms of income. But I want to report them if they would at all affect my benefits and obviously don't want to be accused of hiding income. Naturally, though, it's impossible to get through to anyone at the department (no one picks up the phone and no one responds to emails) so I'm in limbo until I get a call back about them.
I mean if an advance is treated like a loan and not reported to the IRS as income, I'm not sure how it could plausibly be defined as "income" for unemployment reporting purposes. Obviously a stipend is a different matter and definitely needs to be reported in some way, but I'm not really sure if a salary advance that is categorized as a loan and wouldn't be reportable as W2 income is even relevant...

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