2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread Forum

[Wild Card]

Do median or <25% applications even get looked at? If you have strong softs, recommenders, etc. does it matter if your application won't even make the initial cut?

They should get at least a look if you go to a top law school that does not rank. In that case, the OSCAR platform lets the clerk or the judge see only your name, where you went to school, and your class year.

In other words, the clerk or the judge would have to download your application and scroll directly to your resume or your transcript if the goal were simply to find out your class rank.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone hear from Livingston after interviewing?

Interviewed but have not heard

Same boat. I know Judge interviewed some other people at my school; one withdrew before hearing back and I assume the other turned the Judge down after receiving their offer(since they also reported an offer from a major feeder).

Was the latter an extended offer?

Yes, I meant to say they presumably turned down their offer from Livingston after receiving an offer from a top feeder. Acceptances were reported for the feeder but none for Livingston yet.

Curious how this works, does your school's clerkship office just update a spreadsheet with results on it or are they periodically sending you all updates?

[Anonymous User]

I was trying to disconnect from the process and then got a rejection for a position that I did not even apply for

[Anonymous User]

Anyone hear from Livingston after interviewing?

Interviewed but have not heard

Same boat. I know Judge interviewed some other people at my school; one withdrew before hearing back and I assume the other turned the Judge down after receiving their offer(since they also reported an offer from a major feeder).

Was the latter an extended offer?

Yes, I meant to say they presumably turned down their offer from Livingston after receiving an offer from a top feeder. Acceptances were reported for the feeder but none for Livingston yet.

Curious how this works, does your school's clerkship office just update a spreadsheet with results on it or are they periodically sending you all updates?

Can you post un-anon so I can PM you? Don't want to give away more info here

[JimComeyGhost]

Do median or <25% applications even get looked at? If you have strong softs, recommenders, etc. does it matter if your application won't even make the initial cut?

They should get at least a look if you go to a top law school that does not rank. In that case, the OSCAR platform lets the clerk or the judge see only your name, where you went to school, and your class year.

In other words, the clerk or the judge would have to download your application and scroll directly to your resume or your transcript if the goal were simply to find out your class rank.

Even then, I was under the impression that to help weed through 500+ apps that the clerks would rank by school and cut out a certain % of the bottom GPAs at each school before starting to actually look in-depth

[Anonymous User]

Brooks (Arkansas) filled.

[Anonymous User]

Any EDNY updates this week? Particularly interested in Chen, Matsumoto, Mauskopf

[beepboopbeep]

Do median or <25% applications even get looked at? If you have strong softs, recommenders, etc. does it matter if your application won't even make the initial cut?

They should get at least a look if you go to a top law school that does not rank. In that case, the OSCAR platform lets the clerk or the judge see only your name, where you went to school, and your class year.

In other words, the clerk or the judge would have to download your application and scroll directly to your resume or your transcript if the goal were simply to find out your class rank.

Even then, I was under the impression that to help weed through 500+ apps that the clerks would rank by school and cut out a certain % of the bottom GPAs at each school before starting to actually look in-depth

It's not super easy to do this for most top schools. HYS have smiley face grades. Chicago has its weird numbers, but doesn't calculate the GPA for you except for alumni, who aren't on plan anyway. Many of the rest of the T14 don't calculate the GPA for you either, and there's often a lot of guesswork figuring out who's in the top 10% vs top 25% or whatever -- something like a 3.7 means different things at different schools depending on whether they're on a 4.0 or 4.0+ scale, what the mandatory curves are, etc. And it's not really any more efficient to just pull transcripts and make an orderly list rather than just giving each application a quick skim anyway, since doing any kind of rigorous GPA calculation eats up much more time than just giving the whole packet a look. Maybe other chambers had more efficient filtering than we did, but my experience was every application from a T14 + handful of other schools got actual human eyes on it, with more or less of a close read.

[rchrls2]

Anyone hear from Livingston after interviewing?

Interviewed but have not heard

Same boat. I know Judge interviewed some other people at my school; one withdrew before hearing back and I assume the other turned the Judge down after receiving their offer(since they also reported an offer from a major feeder).

Was the latter an extended offer?

Yes, I meant to say they presumably turned down their offer from Livingston after receiving an offer from a top feeder. Acceptances were reported for the feeder but none for Livingston yet.

Curious how this works, does your school's clerkship office just update a spreadsheet with results on it or are they periodically sending you all updates?

Can you post un-anon so I can PM you? Don't want to give away more info here

If you don't mind PMing me as well, I would be interested in hearing how that works too!

[Anonymous User]

Interviewed but have not heard

Same boat. I know Judge interviewed some other people at my school; one withdrew before hearing back and I assume the other turned the Judge down after receiving their offer(since they also reported an offer from a major feeder).

Was the latter an extended offer?

Yes, I meant to say they presumably turned down their offer from Livingston after receiving an offer from a top feeder. Acceptances were reported for the feeder but none for Livingston yet.

Curious how this works, does your school's clerkship office just update a spreadsheet with results on it or are they periodically sending you all updates?

Can you post un-anon so I can PM you? Don't want to give away more info here

If you don't mind PMing me as well, I would be interested in hearing how that works too!

[deleted]

[Anonymous User]

Hard not to feel discouraged. I get that I'm not a particularly desirable candidate--median at CCN, no LR, but at a top firm--and so my expectations were low to begin with, but the total silence out of nearly 100 applications across the country is still pretty disheartening. Obviously I'm gonna keep applying, and more likely than not if I get a clerkship it won't be until I'm at my firm, but this stings anyway.

Slightly different story, but same feeling. EIC of law review at a T50, top 5% of class, minority. My school vigorously promoted federal clerkships as if all students could get one and that we should expect our phone to be ringing off the hook on June 16. Told us to apply to select judges - some even suggested Feinerman or other top feeder judges - because the marginal cost of applying is so low anyway.

Now that I've read all these threads and understand just how low my chances are - can't help but honestly feel duped and frustrated. I chose to go to a lower-tier school to get more $$ and not graduate in debt; I avoided a transfer to T14s because of financial security, and now I feel depressed and that my school was negligent for promoting such aspirations on us. This all f***** sucks and the plan is annoying.

Had to bump this because it infuriated me so much. For context, at H the clerkship office (actually decent, honest people) will talk you down from expecting a clerkship if you're below median. The fact that a T50 school is even raising the idea of federal clerkships to anyone but the top 10 percent is disingenuous because it sets people up for disappointment and makes people think they aren't successful if they're not one of the five people in their class to get one. When the reality is the majority of accomplished lawyers, from firm partners to gov't, don't have them.

[Anonymous User]

Hard not to feel discouraged. I get that I'm not a particularly desirable candidate--median at CCN, no LR, but at a top firm--and so my expectations were low to begin with, but the total silence out of nearly 100 applications across the country is still pretty disheartening. Obviously I'm gonna keep applying, and more likely than not if I get a clerkship it won't be until I'm at my firm, but this stings anyway.

Slightly different story, but same feeling. EIC of law review at a T50, top 5% of class, minority. My school vigorously promoted federal clerkships as if all students could get one and that we should expect our phone to be ringing off the hook on June 16. Told us to apply to select judges - some even suggested Feinerman or other top feeder judges - because the marginal cost of applying is so low anyway.

Now that I've read all these threads and understand just how low my chances are - can't help but honestly feel duped and frustrated. I chose to go to a lower-tier school to get more $$ and not graduate in debt; I avoided a transfer to T14s because of financial security, and now I feel depressed and that my school was negligent for promoting such aspirations on us. This all f***** sucks and the plan is annoying.

Had to bump this because it infuriated me so much. For context, at H the clerkship office (actually decent, honest people) will talk you down from expecting a clerkship if you're below median. The fact that a T50 school is even raising the idea of federal clerkships to anyone but the top 10 percent is disingenuous because it sets people up for disappointment and makes people think they aren't successful if they're not one of the five people in their class to get one. When the reality is the majority of accomplished lawyers, from firm partners to gov't, don't have them.

Even at H, I feel like it's overly optimistic. Meeting with the clerkship office, as well as their chart about one's grades and respective clerk prospects, seem much too rosy. I was under the impression I would definitely be getting calls this week, but after a lot of silence I madly scheduled informational interviews with current and former clerks. They all basically said the process was either down to (a) your recommenders knowing the judge or (b) luck. I wish the clerkship office had emphasized just how vital connecting to the right professors was.

[RunnerRunner]

Hard not to feel discouraged. I get that I'm not a particularly desirable candidate--median at CCN, no LR, but at a top firm--and so my expectations were low to begin with, but the total silence out of nearly 100 applications across the country is still pretty disheartening. Obviously I'm gonna keep applying, and more likely than not if I get a clerkship it won't be until I'm at my firm, but this stings anyway.

Slightly different story, but same feeling. EIC of law review at a T50, top 5% of class, minority. My school vigorously promoted federal clerkships as if all students could get one and that we should expect our phone to be ringing off the hook on June 16. Told us to apply to select judges - some even suggested Feinerman or other top feeder judges - because the marginal cost of applying is so low anyway.

Now that I've read all these threads and understand just how low my chances are - can't help but honestly feel duped and frustrated. I chose to go to a lower-tier school to get more $$ and not graduate in debt; I avoided a transfer to T14s because of financial security, and now I feel depressed and that my school was negligent for promoting such aspirations on us. This all f***** sucks and the plan is annoying.

Had to bump this because it infuriated me so much. For context, at H the clerkship office (actually decent, honest people) will talk you down from expecting a clerkship if you're below median. The fact that a T50 school is even raising the idea of federal clerkships to anyone but the top 10 percent is disingenuous because it sets people up for disappointment and makes people think they aren't successful if they're not one of the five people in their class to get one. When the reality is the majority of accomplished lawyers, from firm partners to gov't, don't have them.

Agree, that is a very disappointing practice. My assumption is the school is desperate to increase their clerkship numbers by even a tiny bit so they can promote themselves better to future law students. The fact that the school is spreading misleading information that may impact peoples' school and career choices is unethical, IMO.

[Anonymous User]

Hard not to feel discouraged. I get that I'm not a particularly desirable candidate--median at CCN, no LR, but at a top firm--and so my expectations were low to begin with, but the total silence out of nearly 100 applications across the country is still pretty disheartening. Obviously I'm gonna keep applying, and more likely than not if I get a clerkship it won't be until I'm at my firm, but this stings anyway.

Slightly different story, but same feeling. EIC of law review at a T50, top 5% of class, minority. My school vigorously promoted federal clerkships as if all students could get one and that we should expect our phone to be ringing off the hook on June 16. Told us to apply to select judges - some even suggested Feinerman or other top feeder judges - because the marginal cost of applying is so low anyway.

Now that I've read all these threads and understand just how low my chances are - can't help but honestly feel duped and frustrated. I chose to go to a lower-tier school to get more $$ and not graduate in debt; I avoided a transfer to T14s because of financial security, and now I feel depressed and that my school was negligent for promoting such aspirations on us. This all f***** sucks and the plan is annoying.

Had to bump this because it infuriated me so much. For context, at H the clerkship office (actually decent, honest people) will talk you down from expecting a clerkship if you're below median. The fact that a T50 school is even raising the idea of federal clerkships to anyone but the top 10 percent is disingenuous because it sets people up for disappointment and makes people think they aren't successful if they're not one of the five people in their class to get one. When the reality is the majority of accomplished lawyers, from firm partners to gov't, don't have them.

Even at H, I feel like it's overly optimistic. Meeting with the clerkship office, as well as their chart about one's grades and respective clerk prospects, seem much too rosy. I was under the impression I would definitely be getting calls this week, but after a lot of silence I madly scheduled informational interviews with current and former clerks. They all basically said the process was either down to (a) your recommenders knowing the judge or (b) luck. I wish the clerkship office had emphasized just how vital connecting to the right professors was.

Same with S/Y.

[Anonymous User]

Hard not to feel discouraged. I get that I'm not a particularly desirable candidate--median at CCN, no LR, but at a top firm--and so my expectations were low to begin with, but the total silence out of nearly 100 applications across the country is still pretty disheartening. Obviously I'm gonna keep applying, and more likely than not if I get a clerkship it won't be until I'm at my firm, but this stings anyway.

Slightly different story, but same feeling. EIC of law review at a T50, top 5% of class, minority. My school vigorously promoted federal clerkships as if all students could get one and that we should expect our phone to be ringing off the hook on June 16. Told us to apply to select judges - some even suggested Feinerman or other top feeder judges - because the marginal cost of applying is so low anyway.

Now that I've read all these threads and understand just how low my chances are - can't help but honestly feel duped and frustrated. I chose to go to a lower-tier school to get more $$ and not graduate in debt; I avoided a transfer to T14s because of financial security, and now I feel depressed and that my school was negligent for promoting such aspirations on us. This all f***** sucks and the plan is annoying.

Had to bump this because it infuriated me so much. For context, at H the clerkship office (actually decent, honest people) will talk you down from expecting a clerkship if you're below median. The fact that a T50 school is even raising the idea of federal clerkships to anyone but the top 10 percent is disingenuous because it sets people up for disappointment and makes people think they aren't successful if they're not one of the five people in their class to get one. When the reality is the majority of accomplished lawyers, from firm partners to gov't, don't have them.

Even at H, I feel like it's overly optimistic. Meeting with the clerkship office, as well as their chart about one's grades and respective clerk prospects, seem much too rosy. I was under the impression I would definitely be getting calls this week, but after a lot of silence I madly scheduled informational interviews with current and former clerks. They all basically said the process was either down to (a) your recommenders knowing the judge or (b) luck. I wish the clerkship office had emphasized just how vital connecting to the right professors was.

Same with S/Y.

I'm at MVP, and I didn't realize until this week/this thread how competitive clerkships truly were. I knew they were hard to get but my friends and I all assumed we would all get something, even if not for 2021. Realizing that might not be the case is a bitter pill

[Anonymous User]

Hard not to feel discouraged. I get that I'm not a particularly desirable candidate--median at CCN, no LR, but at a top firm--and so my expectations were low to begin with, but the total silence out of nearly 100 applications across the country is still pretty disheartening. Obviously I'm gonna keep applying, and more likely than not if I get a clerkship it won't be until I'm at my firm, but this stings anyway.

Slightly different story, but same feeling. EIC of law review at a T50, top 5% of class, minority. My school vigorously promoted federal clerkships as if all students could get one and that we should expect our phone to be ringing off the hook on June 16. Told us to apply to select judges - some even suggested Feinerman or other top feeder judges - because the marginal cost of applying is so low anyway.

Now that I've read all these threads and understand just how low my chances are - can't help but honestly feel duped and frustrated. I chose to go to a lower-tier school to get more $$ and not graduate in debt; I avoided a transfer to T14s because of financial security, and now I feel depressed and that my school was negligent for promoting such aspirations on us. This all f***** sucks and the plan is annoying.

Had to bump this because it infuriated me so much. For context, at H the clerkship office (actually decent, honest people) will talk you down from expecting a clerkship if you're below median. The fact that a T50 school is even raising the idea of federal clerkships to anyone but the top 10 percent is disingenuous because it sets people up for disappointment and makes people think they aren't successful if they're not one of the five people in their class to get one. When the reality is the majority of accomplished lawyers, from firm partners to gov't, don't have them.

Agree, that is a very disappointing practice. My assumption is the school is desperate to increase their clerkship numbers by even a tiny bit so they can promote themselves better to future law students. The fact that the school is spreading misleading information that may impact peoples' school and career choices is unethical, IMO.

OP coming back in - yeah, I'm beyond upset, and some of my (50% percentile friends) are running around pretty depressed. I suppose I should have seen the writing on the wall: our journal invites back alums (who have clerked) to speak to current students, and they warned that the process was not easy and akin to luck, especially given our school's ranking. But our top "clerkship professor" is urging everyone to apply, our career development office sends emails nonstop encouraging students to apply and update their ranks and forms. In my EIC transition handbook, there's a section on clerkships that basically says "very few get them at the school; most will belong to this journal." It's utterly ridiculous, especially for students who are less experienced in legal institutions and really think they have a reasonable shot (like my friend with 3 C's on his transcript).

Hell, if it wasn't for a very sharp professor (who is not tenured and recently clerked) who is writing my recs, I would have sent off a ton of Court of Appeals applications (and to feeders like Feinerman). He pulled me (virtually) aside and we had an honest conversation. At the time, I though he was crazy. Now, I know he was right :/

[Anonymous User]

Hard not to feel discouraged. I get that I'm not a particularly desirable candidate--median at CCN, no LR, but at a top firm--and so my expectations were low to begin with, but the total silence out of nearly 100 applications across the country is still pretty disheartening. Obviously I'm gonna keep applying, and more likely than not if I get a clerkship it won't be until I'm at my firm, but this stings anyway.

Slightly different story, but same feeling. EIC of law review at a T50, top 5% of class, minority. My school vigorously promoted federal clerkships as if all students could get one and that we should expect our phone to be ringing off the hook on June 16. Told us to apply to select judges - some even suggested Feinerman or other top feeder judges - because the marginal cost of applying is so low anyway.

Now that I've read all these threads and understand just how low my chances are - can't help but honestly feel duped and frustrated. I chose to go to a lower-tier school to get more $$ and not graduate in debt; I avoided a transfer to T14s because of financial security, and now I feel depressed and that my school was negligent for promoting such aspirations on us. This all f***** sucks and the plan is annoying.

Had to bump this because it infuriated me so much. For context, at H the clerkship office (actually decent, honest people) will talk you down from expecting a clerkship if you're below median. The fact that a T50 school is even raising the idea of federal clerkships to anyone but the top 10 percent is disingenuous because it sets people up for disappointment and makes people think they aren't successful if they're not one of the five people in their class to get one. When the reality is the majority of accomplished lawyers, from firm partners to gov't, don't have them.

Even at H, I feel like it's overly optimistic. Meeting with the clerkship office, as well as their chart about one's grades and respective clerk prospects, seem much too rosy. I was under the impression I would definitely be getting calls this week, but after a lot of silence I madly scheduled informational interviews with current and former clerks. They all basically said the process was either down to (a) your recommenders knowing the judge or (b) luck. I wish the clerkship office had emphasized just how vital connecting to the right professors was.

Same with S/Y.

I'm at MVP, and I didn't realize until this week/this thread how competitive clerkships truly were. I knew they were hard to get but my friends and I all assumed we would all get something, even if not for 2022. Realizing that might not be the case is a bitter pill

I'm at a T15-19, LR, top 5%, and I s2g the only reason I got a d.ct. clerkship is professor connections. Very thankful I picked the recommenders I did, because there was *no* help from our clerkships office on targeting applications or picking recommenders. I recognize that at a school like mine, where the data on successful clerkship applicants is more sparse than a HYSCCN, the approach necessarily has to be more of a shotgun. But still, fascinating to see how the process really works now that I'm through it.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on Judge Walker in CA2?

[Anonymous User]

...

[Anonymous User]

You have to remember, though, that most judges still haven’t moved and the ones who have are disproportionately targeting HYSCCN (really probably HYSC) students. It’s apparently moving slower than last year according to Harvard, and last year m my (HYSC) clerkship office said the vast majority of judges moved after the first week. Way too early to give up hope.

[Anonymous User]

You have to remember, though, that most judges still haven’t moved and the ones who have are disproportionately targeting HYSCCN (really probably HYSC) students. It’s apparently moving slower than last year according to Harvard, and last year m my (HYSC) clerkship office said the vast majority of judges moved after the first week. Way too early to give up hope.

Hope? Haven't heard the name in years.

[Anonymous User]

Have any schools reported movement from Clifton, Bress, Seeborg, or Gilliam?

[nononono24]

Any updates from SDWV?

[lavarman84]

OP coming back in - yeah, I'm beyond upset, and some of my (50% percentile friends) are running around pretty depressed. I suppose I should have seen the writing on the wall: our journal invites back alums (who have clerked) to speak to current students, and they warned that the process was not easy and akin to luck, especially given our school's ranking. But our top "clerkship professor" is urging everyone to apply, our career development office sends emails nonstop encouraging students to apply and update their ranks and forms. In my EIC transition handbook, there's a section on clerkships that basically says "very few get them at the school; most will belong to this journal." It's utterly ridiculous, especially for students who are less experienced in legal institutions and really think they have a reasonable shot (like my friend with 3 C's on his transcript).

Hell, if it wasn't for a very sharp professor (who is not tenured and recently clerked) who is writing my recs, I would have sent off a ton of Court of Appeals applications (and to feeders like Feinerman). He pulled me (virtually) aside and we had an honest conversation. At the time, I though he was crazy. Now, I know he was right :/

The career office at my T1 did next to nothing. I did basically everything myself in the clerkship hunt. But frankly, that was probably better than them pumping sunshine up people's rear ends. I had professors who helped guide me, and they were pretty realistic. Although, I never shied away from applying to judges out of my league. I always figured that the worst case scenario was a no. I just didn't ask anybody to expend their capital on judges out of my league. Landing a clerkship comes down to three things: 1) credentials, 2) connections, and 3) luck. Well, I guess I could add perseverance as #4. But yeah, law schools need to be realistic with applicants.

[Anonymous User]

Have any schools reported movement from Clifton, Bress, Seeborg, or Gilliam?

Clifton + Gilliam have extended interview invite(s?)