WDNY Prestiege?

(Seek and share information about clerkship applications, clerkship hiring timelines, and post-clerkship employment opportunities)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are sharing sensitive information about clerkship applications and clerkship hiring. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned."
Anonymous User
Posts: 351003
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

WDNY Prestiege?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:54 pm

Does anyone know how prestigious a district court clerkship with WDNY judge is?

User avatar
Wild Card

Silver
Posts: 840
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by Wild Card » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:12 pm

Did you just get an interview invitation? lol

User avatar
mjb447

Silver
Posts: 1377
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:36 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by mjb447 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:22 pm

I'd imagine about the usual amount for a clerkship in a midsize city.

You may get more helpful advice if you give a little information about where you'd like to be geographically and what you'd like to do with your career.

Anonymous User
Posts: 351003
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:54 pm
Does anyone know how prestigious a district court clerkship with WDNY judge is?
its not.

nixy

Gold
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by nixy » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:09 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:54 pm
Does anyone know how prestigious a district court clerkship with WDNY judge is?
its not.
LOL prestige is in the eye of the beholder.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


User avatar
floatie

Silver
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by floatie » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:59 pm

Well, it's not SDNY, but it's not Mississippi either.

dvlthndr

Bronze
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:34 pm

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by dvlthndr » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:20 pm

It’s like asking “how prestigious is Rochester and Buffalo?”

burritotaco

New
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:20 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by burritotaco » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:09 am

I believe its prestige is somewhere between SDNY and D.M.N.I.

Anonymous User
Posts: 351003
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:55 am

Not OP but maybe a better way to ask this is just to ask about the reputation of the judges in WDNY? Are there any judges highly regarded or ones that should be avoided?

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Anonymous User
Posts: 351003
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:40 pm

None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.

nixy

Gold
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by nixy » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:40 pm
None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.
Would love to know the basis for thinking that three different courts *all* feel this way about all the judges.

Pennoyer v. Meh

New
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 2:29 pm

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by Pennoyer v. Meh » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:40 pm
None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.
Sounds like someone is applying and wants to ward off other applicants...

Anonymous User
Posts: 351003
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:40 pm
None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.
Posting anon for obvious reasons. (Outed myself accidentally before, but no big deal.)


While intimately familiar with EDNY/2d Cir./SDNY, I never got the sense that any single district court judge on NDNY/WDNY was “bad” or “unqualified,” but the districts were certainly regarded as the “Wild Wild West” where crazy decisions abound. Much of that may be due to the fact that the sentencing decisions of the judges on those courts are more in line with the nation generally and less in line with the decisions of EDNY/SDNY, where the low end of applicable sentencing guidelines is basically the soft ceiling for sentences as a general matter.

That, along with (1) the fact that the paths to judgeships on SDNY/EDNY (and to a lesser extent 2d Cir.) are pretty homogenous as compared to WDNY/NDNY, leading to some prestige bias, and (2) the fact that the clerk credentials are stronger in EDNY/SDNY, may lead judges (and CLERKS) on 2d cir./SDNY/EDNY to read opinions from those courts with somewhat less deference than would be given to an opinion out of SDNY. (To be sure, there are (or were) certainly bad judges on SDNY. That was just an example).

TL;DR: I agree that none of the judges on NDNY/WDNY is “well-regarded”—and agree that some judges may (or do in fact) look down on opinions out of those districts—but disagree that this is because any single judge is “bad.” Hope this helps. If someone has a different experience, feel free to chime in.

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 351003
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:16 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:40 pm
None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.
Posting anon for obvious reasons. (Outed myself accidentally before, but no big deal.)


While intimately familiar with EDNY/2d Cir./SDNY, I never got the sense that any single district court judge on NDNY/WDNY was “bad” or “unqualified,” but the districts were certainly regarded as the “Wild Wild West” where crazy decisions abound. Much of that may be due to the fact that the sentencing decisions of the judges on those courts are more in line with the nation generally and less in line with the decisions of EDNY/SDNY, where the low end of applicable sentencing guidelines is basically the soft ceiling for sentences as a general matter.

That, along with (1) the fact that the paths to judgeships on SDNY/EDNY (and to a lesser extent 2d Cir.) are pretty homogenous as compared to WDNY/NDNY, leading to some prestige bias, and (2) the fact that the clerk credentials are stronger in EDNY/SDNY, may lead judges (and CLERKS) on 2d cir./SDNY/EDNY to read opinions from those courts with somewhat less deference than would be given to an opinion out of SDNY. (To be sure, there are (or were) certainly bad judges on SDNY. That was just an example).

TL;DR: I agree that none of the judges on NDNY/WDNY is “well-regarded”—and agree that some judges may (or do in fact) look down on opinions out of those districts—but disagree that this is because any single judge is “bad.” Hope this helps. If someone has a different experience, feel free to chime in.
My SDNY judge ranks EDNY, WDNY, and NDNY equally in the hierarchy of persuasive authority. I.e., prefer SDNY to all other NY districts, all NY districts to all other districts.

With respect to your observations about sentencing: wouldn't that make the SDNY and EDNY the Wild West, in the sense that they are out of line compared to the rest of the country?

As to selectivity, SDNY attracts 3.8 from my law school; EDNY 3.6 and NDNY 3.5; my law school has sent exactly one graduate to the WDNY, and he had a 3.7+ GPA--but one (1) is an unrepresentative sample. Honestly, there's not that much difference between a 3.5 and a 3.6--though, sure, there's quite a gap between SDNY and the rest. So SDNY is in a class of its own, but virtually every other district is attracting strong students.

If you look at the profiles of the WDNY judges, there were either AUSAs or distinguished local practitioners--so they did follow a "homogenous" path. The issue, of course, is that many attended TTTs. But if you look at the SDNY or EDNY, or any other district, you'll find TTT grads too.

I don't get the hate.

nixy

Gold
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by nixy » Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:16 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:40 pm
None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.
Posting anon for obvious reasons. (Outed myself accidentally before, but no big deal.)


While intimately familiar with EDNY/2d Cir./SDNY, I never got the sense that any single district court judge on NDNY/WDNY was “bad” or “unqualified,” but the districts were certainly regarded as the “Wild Wild West” where crazy decisions abound. Much of that may be due to the fact that the sentencing decisions of the judges on those courts are more in line with the nation generally and less in line with the decisions of EDNY/SDNY, where the low end of applicable sentencing guidelines is basically the soft ceiling for sentences as a general matter.

That, along with (1) the fact that the paths to judgeships on SDNY/EDNY (and to a lesser extent 2d Cir.) are pretty homogenous as compared to WDNY/NDNY, leading to some prestige bias, and (2) the fact that the clerk credentials are stronger in EDNY/SDNY, may lead judges (and CLERKS) on 2d cir./SDNY/EDNY to read opinions from those courts with somewhat less deference than would be given to an opinion out of SDNY. (To be sure, there are (or were) certainly bad judges on SDNY. That was just an example).

TL;DR: I agree that none of the judges on NDNY/WDNY is “well-regarded”—and agree that some judges may (or do in fact) look down on opinions out of those districts—but disagree that this is because any single judge is “bad.” Hope this helps. If someone has a different experience, feel free to chime in.
So basically, SDNY and EDNY are snobs?

dvlthndr

Bronze
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:34 pm

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by dvlthndr » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:03 am

Who could have expected a question about how “prestigious” something is to devolve into snobbish comments?

lavarman84

Platinum
Posts: 8088
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:01 pm

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by lavarman84 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:38 am

nixy wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:20 pm
So basically, SDNY and EDNY are snobs?
We are part of an elitist profession.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


Anonymous User
Posts: 351003
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:16 pm
While intimately familiar with EDNY/2d Cir./SDNY, I never got the sense that any single district court judge on NDNY/WDNY was “bad” or “unqualified,” but the districts were certainly regarded as the “Wild Wild West” where crazy decisions abound. Much of that may be due to the fact that the sentencing decisions of the judges on those courts are more in line with the nation generally and less in line with the decisions of EDNY/SDNY, where the low end of applicable sentencing guidelines is basically the soft ceiling for sentences as a general matter.

That, along with (1) the fact that the paths to judgeships on SDNY/EDNY (and to a lesser extent 2d Cir.) are pretty homogenous as compared to WDNY/NDNY, leading to some prestige bias, and (2) the fact that the clerk credentials are stronger in EDNY/SDNY, may lead judges (and CLERKS) on 2d cir./SDNY/EDNY to read opinions from those courts with somewhat less deference than would be given to an opinion out of SDNY. (To be sure, there are (or were) certainly bad judges on SDNY. That was just an example).

TL;DR: I agree that none of the judges on NDNY/WDNY is “well-regarded”—and agree that some judges may (or do in fact) look down on opinions out of those districts—but disagree that this is because any single judge is “bad.” Hope this helps. If someone has a different experience, feel free to chime in.
FWIW, when I was at the Second Circuit, there was a general consensus that WDNY/NDNY/Vt. orders tended to be noticeably more poorly drafted than those out of SDNY/EDNY/Conn., not in terms of reaching the correct outcome but in terms of being clear and thorough enough to permit review.

nixy

Gold
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by nixy » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:33 am

I wonder how much of a role confirmation bias plays in that.

Anonymous User
Posts: 351003
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: WDNY Prestiege?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:47 am

dvlthndr wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:03 am
Who could have expected a question about how “prestigious” something is to devolve into snobbish comments?
(OP of the long post about my
anecdotal experience regarding how WDNY/NDNY is perceived by other courts within the 2d Cir. and/or the 2d Cir. itself.)

It’s incredible how one could read my post as a snobbish comment considering I merely conveyed my impression of the views of others. But whatever. I stand by what I said, because I think it’s a valid representation of the thinking of some judges and law clerks on the 2nd Cir. and EDNY/SDNY(and maybe more than “some”).

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Judicial Clerkships”