WDNY Prestiege? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know how prestigious a district court clerkship with WDNY judge is?

[Wild Card]

Did you just get an interview invitation? lol

[mjb447]

I'd imagine about the usual amount for a clerkship in a midsize city.

You may get more helpful advice if you give a little information about where you'd like to be geographically and what you'd like to do with your career.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know how prestigious a district court clerkship with WDNY judge is?

its not.

[nixy]

Does anyone know how prestigious a district court clerkship with WDNY judge is?

its not.

LOL prestige is in the eye of the beholder.

[floatie]

Well, it's not SDNY, but it's not Mississippi either.

[dvlthndr]

It’s like asking “how prestigious is Rochester and Buffalo?”

[burritotaco]

I believe its prestige is somewhere between SDNY and D.M.N.I.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP but maybe a better way to ask this is just to ask about the reputation of the judges in WDNY? Are there any judges highly regarded or ones that should be avoided?

[Anonymous User]

None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.

[nixy]

None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.

Would love to know the basis for thinking that three different courts *all* feel this way about all the judges.

[Pennoyer v. Meh]

None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.

Sounds like someone is applying and wants to ward off other applicants...

[Anonymous User]

None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.

Posting anon for obvious reasons. (Outed myself accidentally before, but no big deal.)


While intimately familiar with EDNY/2d Cir./SDNY, I never got the sense that any single district court judge on NDNY/WDNY was “bad” or “unqualified,” but the districts were certainly regarded as the “Wild Wild West” where crazy decisions abound. Much of that may be due to the fact that the sentencing decisions of the judges on those courts are more in line with the nation generally and less in line with the decisions of EDNY/SDNY, where the low end of applicable sentencing guidelines is basically the soft ceiling for sentences as a general matter.

That, along with (1) the fact that the paths to judgeships on SDNY/EDNY (and to a lesser extent 2d Cir.) are pretty homogenous as compared to WDNY/NDNY, leading to some prestige bias, and (2) the fact that the clerk credentials are stronger in EDNY/SDNY, may lead judges (and CLERKS) on 2d cir./SDNY/EDNY to read opinions from those courts with somewhat less deference than would be given to an opinion out of SDNY. (To be sure, there are (or were) certainly bad judges on SDNY. That was just an example).

TL;DR: I agree that none of the judges on NDNY/WDNY is “well-regarded”—and agree that some judges may (or do in fact) look down on opinions out of those districts—but disagree that this is because any single judge is “bad.” Hope this helps. If someone has a different experience, feel free to chime in.

[Anonymous User]

None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.

Posting anon for obvious reasons. (Outed myself accidentally before, but no big deal.)


While intimately familiar with EDNY/2d Cir./SDNY, I never got the sense that any single district court judge on NDNY/WDNY was “bad” or “unqualified,” but the districts were certainly regarded as the “Wild Wild West” where crazy decisions abound. Much of that may be due to the fact that the sentencing decisions of the judges on those courts are more in line with the nation generally and less in line with the decisions of EDNY/SDNY, where the low end of applicable sentencing guidelines is basically the soft ceiling for sentences as a general matter.

That, along with (1) the fact that the paths to judgeships on SDNY/EDNY (and to a lesser extent 2d Cir.) are pretty homogenous as compared to WDNY/NDNY, leading to some prestige bias, and (2) the fact that the clerk credentials are stronger in EDNY/SDNY, may lead judges (and CLERKS) on 2d cir./SDNY/EDNY to read opinions from those courts with somewhat less deference than would be given to an opinion out of SDNY. (To be sure, there are (or were) certainly bad judges on SDNY. That was just an example).

TL;DR: I agree that none of the judges on NDNY/WDNY is “well-regarded”—and agree that some judges may (or do in fact) look down on opinions out of those districts—but disagree that this is because any single judge is “bad.” Hope this helps. If someone has a different experience, feel free to chime in.

My SDNY judge ranks EDNY, WDNY, and NDNY equally in the hierarchy of persuasive authority. I.e., prefer SDNY to all other NY districts, all NY districts to all other districts.

With respect to your observations about sentencing: wouldn't that make the SDNY and EDNY the Wild West, in the sense that they are out of line compared to the rest of the country?

As to selectivity, SDNY attracts 3.8 from my law school; EDNY 3.6 and NDNY 3.5; my law school has sent exactly one graduate to the WDNY, and he had a 3.7+ GPA--but one (1) is an unrepresentative sample. Honestly, there's not that much difference between a 3.5 and a 3.6--though, sure, there's quite a gap between SDNY and the rest. So SDNY is in a class of its own, but virtually every other district is attracting strong students.

If you look at the profiles of the WDNY judges, there were either AUSAs or distinguished local practitioners--so they did follow a "homogenous" path. The issue, of course, is that many attended TTTs. But if you look at the SDNY or EDNY, or any other district, you'll find TTT grads too.

I don't get the hate.

[nixy]

None of the judges are well-regarded and the Second Circuit/EDNY/SDNY all look down on it.

Posting anon for obvious reasons. (Outed myself accidentally before, but no big deal.)


While intimately familiar with EDNY/2d Cir./SDNY, I never got the sense that any single district court judge on NDNY/WDNY was “bad” or “unqualified,” but the districts were certainly regarded as the “Wild Wild West” where crazy decisions abound. Much of that may be due to the fact that the sentencing decisions of the judges on those courts are more in line with the nation generally and less in line with the decisions of EDNY/SDNY, where the low end of applicable sentencing guidelines is basically the soft ceiling for sentences as a general matter.

That, along with (1) the fact that the paths to judgeships on SDNY/EDNY (and to a lesser extent 2d Cir.) are pretty homogenous as compared to WDNY/NDNY, leading to some prestige bias, and (2) the fact that the clerk credentials are stronger in EDNY/SDNY, may lead judges (and CLERKS) on 2d cir./SDNY/EDNY to read opinions from those courts with somewhat less deference than would be given to an opinion out of SDNY. (To be sure, there are (or were) certainly bad judges on SDNY. That was just an example).

TL;DR: I agree that none of the judges on NDNY/WDNY is “well-regarded”—and agree that some judges may (or do in fact) look down on opinions out of those districts—but disagree that this is because any single judge is “bad.” Hope this helps. If someone has a different experience, feel free to chime in.

So basically, SDNY and EDNY are snobs?

[dvlthndr]

Who could have expected a question about how “prestigious” something is to devolve into snobbish comments?

[lavarman84]

So basically, SDNY and EDNY are snobs?

We are part of an elitist profession.

[Anonymous User]

While intimately familiar with EDNY/2d Cir./SDNY, I never got the sense that any single district court judge on NDNY/WDNY was “bad” or “unqualified,” but the districts were certainly regarded as the “Wild Wild West” where crazy decisions abound. Much of that may be due to the fact that the sentencing decisions of the judges on those courts are more in line with the nation generally and less in line with the decisions of EDNY/SDNY, where the low end of applicable sentencing guidelines is basically the soft ceiling for sentences as a general matter.

That, along with (1) the fact that the paths to judgeships on SDNY/EDNY (and to a lesser extent 2d Cir.) are pretty homogenous as compared to WDNY/NDNY, leading to some prestige bias, and (2) the fact that the clerk credentials are stronger in EDNY/SDNY, may lead judges (and CLERKS) on 2d cir./SDNY/EDNY to read opinions from those courts with somewhat less deference than would be given to an opinion out of SDNY. (To be sure, there are (or were) certainly bad judges on SDNY. That was just an example).

TL;DR: I agree that none of the judges on NDNY/WDNY is “well-regarded”—and agree that some judges may (or do in fact) look down on opinions out of those districts—but disagree that this is because any single judge is “bad.” Hope this helps. If someone has a different experience, feel free to chime in.

FWIW, when I was at the Second Circuit, there was a general consensus that WDNY/NDNY/Vt. orders tended to be noticeably more poorly drafted than those out of SDNY/EDNY/Conn., not in terms of reaching the correct outcome but in terms of being clear and thorough enough to permit review.

[nixy]

I wonder how much of a role confirmation bias plays in that.

[Anonymous User]

Who could have expected a question about how “prestigious” something is to devolve into snobbish comments?

(OP of the long post about my
anecdotal experience regarding how WDNY/NDNY is perceived by other courts within the 2d Cir. and/or the 2d Cir. itself.)

It’s incredible how one could read my post as a snobbish comment considering I merely conveyed my impression of the views of others. But whatever. I stand by what I said, because I think it’s a valid representation of the thinking of some judges and law clerks on the 2nd Cir. and EDNY/SDNY(and maybe more than “some”).