Should I Wait to Apply? Forum

[Anonymous User]

H/S 2L that finished 1L in the top 10% (not on flagship journal), wondering if I should apply to a specific D.Ct. or hold off. I have no idea what my fall grades are going to look like, so there's that; and this would be to a well-respected judge in a busy but not "top tier" district (think N.D. Tex., S.D. Fla., N.D. Ohio, E.D. Pa.). I don't plan on beginning my career in said district FWIW. Should I hold off and see how fall grades turn out before deciding to apply? I think I'd have a good chance at an interview if I apply to this particular judge for reasons I don't want to go into, and I don't think my chances would be materially altered if I do mediocre (but not poorly) this semester. On the flip side, I feel like I may be selling myself short. One other con: don't have any incredible faculty connetcions. Any thoughts?

[lavarman84]

If you don't want to be in that district, is there a particular reason why you want to apply to the judge? Seems like it would make the most sense to apply to districts in which you want to work if you have the credentials to be picky.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. There is a good chance I return to this district one day (it's my hometown), and anyhow, I don't know if I'll be able to be very picky once 2L grades come in; there's no guarantee that I do as well this year. On the other hand, I'd like to do a circuit as well if possible, so I guess my main concern would be that taking a less impressive district clerkship would take me out of the running for a more desirable circuit judge(of course assuming I could keep grades up)

[nixy]

If you're competitive for a desirable circuit court clerkship, you're competitive. Doing a slightly-less-than-super-competitive district court clerkship isn't going to be a black mark. The only way a clerkship could take you out of the running is if the judge is so universally known to be notoriously terrible that everyone associated with them is blackballed everywhere (which is pretty unlikely).

Now, are there some clerkships that might be more actively helpful than others? Sure, but not usually because it's a fancy name, but because you have a good judge who will go to bat for you with circuit court judges/knows lots of them well and is willing to promote you.

I'll confess my experience with feeders is nil, so if you're in that kind of truly rarefied air (which you might be from pedigree/grades, for all I know), maybe considerations are different. Like yes, there are some district court judges that feed to circuit court feeders. But if that's the case, honestly, talk to the clerkship advisors and profs at your school - they will be able to give you much better advice than most people here.

(Honestly, I don't think the judiciary actually sees clerkships in the same kind of tiers that TLS does. N.D. Tex., S.D. Fla., N.D. Ohio, E.D. Pa are all perfectly impressive clerkships. The district doesn't matter as much as the judge does, generally.)

[Anonymous User]

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[Pennoyer v. Meh]

(Honestly, I don't think the judiciary actually sees clerkships in the same kind of tiers that TLS does. N.D. Tex., S.D. Fla., N.D. Ohio, E.D. Pa are all perfectly impressive clerkships. The district doesn't matter as much as the judge does, generally.)

I certainly hope so, because TLS is psychotic when it comes to ranking these districts. It just seems all so...juvenile to me.

[Anonymous User]

OP once more. Thanks for the advice. I am not in feeder territory so I think I'll just apply. This seems like a great opportunity, I sincerely hope it works out

[texanslimjim]

(Honestly, I don't think the judiciary actually sees clerkships in the same kind of tiers that TLS does. N.D. Tex., S.D. Fla., N.D. Ohio, E.D. Pa are all perfectly impressive clerkships. The district doesn't matter as much as the judge does, generally.)

Definitely not, for judges it's more about their connections with specific judges than the prestige of any particular district.

There are concentration effects that mean judges with better connections and elite reputations are more likely to be found in the more competitive districts, but it's definitely a mistake to think all judges in a competitive district have the same reputation or that judges with elite reputations cannot be found outside of NY/CA/DC.

[The Lsat Airbender]

(Honestly, I don't think the judiciary actually sees clerkships in the same kind of tiers that TLS does. N.D. Tex., S.D. Fla., N.D. Ohio, E.D. Pa are all perfectly impressive clerkships. The district doesn't matter as much as the judge does, generally.)

I certainly hope so, because TLS is psychotic when it comes to ranking these districts. It just seems all so...juvenile to me.

Some districts are more desirable because you get to live in a desirable metro area at the same time. People who mistake that factor for gestalt quality are dumb but it's not for nothing that SDNY or NDIL or DDC are a lot harder to get (and therefore, for better or worse, are a stronger signal of pre-clerkship credential quality) than, say, EDTN.

There's also a meaningful difference in the type of cases that different districts see, although, with the exception of "border districts see a lot of crim/immigration," that's not a great thing to optimize for since your 12-month stint might not resemble the long-term trend in that district anyway.

[Wild Card]

I certainly hope so, because TLS is psychotic when it comes to ranking these districts. It just seems all so...juvenile to me.

Is there an authoritative psychotic TLS ranking of the district courts?

[nixy]

But I also think there are EDTN clerks who’d have been perfectly competitive for the “hard to get” districts, but don’t apply there for reasons, and that judges are perfectly capable of evaluating those candidates on their qualifications, not on where they clerked.

(Which is to say, I agree that there’s a correlation between tip top candidates and desirable places to live, but that judges - generally anyway - aren’t going to hold clerking at EDTN instead SDNY etc against someone who’s an otherwise stellar candidate. Like, if the only info the judge has about a candidate is where they clerked, sure, but that’s never the only info they have, and while there’s lots of weeding of excess apps to be done, I’d be shocked if a lot of COA judges are excluding candidates based only on where they clerked, as opposed to also checking their school and grades.)

[Wild Card]

I think it's better to be risk averse here, because there are so few positions out there. Remember that you're competing with 2Ls, 3Ls, and young alums from the entire T14 and also regional flagships. Even if you limit the number of candidates to top 10% and weed out for those who want to do transactional or who just don't care to clerk, you're competing against hundreds of people. It simply wouldn't hurt to apply now, and if you don't succeed, to reapply the next term, and the term after that.

[The Lsat Airbender]

But I also think there are EDTN clerks who’d have been perfectly competitive for the “hard to get” districts, but don’t apply there for reasons, and that judges are perfectly capable of evaluating those candidates on their qualifications, not on where they clerked.

(Which is to say, I agree that there’s a correlation between tip top candidates and desirable places to live, but that judges - generally anyway - aren’t going to hold clerking at EDTN instead SDNY etc against someone who’s an otherwise stellar candidate. Like, if the only info the judge has about a candidate is where they clerked, sure, but that’s never the only info they have, and while there’s lots of weeding of excess apps to be done, I’d be shocked if a lot of COA judges are excluding candidates based only on where they clerked, as opposed to also checking their school and grades.)

Totally agree. All I meant above is that the TLS received wisdom about "competitive" districts has some basis in reason -- notwithstanding that judges definitely do not think in terms of TLS received wisdom.

[lavarman84]

OP once more. Thanks for the advice. I am not in feeder territory so I think I'll just apply. This seems like a great opportunity, I sincerely hope it works out

I think it's the right call. If you want to practice in that market one day, it'll help (if you get the job).

[nixy]

But I also think there are EDTN clerks who’d have been perfectly competitive for the “hard to get” districts, but don’t apply there for reasons, and that judges are perfectly capable of evaluating those candidates on their qualifications, not on where they clerked.

(Which is to say, I agree that there’s a correlation between tip top candidates and desirable places to live, but that judges - generally anyway - aren’t going to hold clerking at EDTN instead SDNY etc against someone who’s an otherwise stellar candidate. Like, if the only info the judge has about a candidate is where they clerked, sure, but that’s never the only info they have, and while there’s lots of weeding of excess apps to be done, I’d be shocked if a lot of COA judges are excluding candidates based only on where they clerked, as opposed to also checking their school and grades.)

Totally agree. All I meant above is that the TLS received wisdom about "competitive" districts has some basis in reason -- notwithstanding that judges definitely do not think in terms of TLS received wisdom.

Oh yeah, got it, definitely agree. Some districts are harder to get than others.