10th Cir. Judges Forum

[eliJ94]

2018 grad here.

I'm currently working in Chicago but from outside of Denver. I'm curious what anyone can say about current 10th Circuit judges as far as clerkship experience? I have looked through the treads but everything seems a bit dated. I'd ideally like to stay in Denver. My thought is a tenth circuit gig will make it easier to head home if I burn out of Chicago Biglaw. Ultimately I just want a a good clerkship and someone who will maybe go to bat for me if I move markets in a few years.

Any advice on 10th circuit judges is welcome. I may consider the 7th as well since I am here. Thanks.

[TatteredDignity]

I clerked on the 10th and currently do Chicago big law. I’m sure you know this, but only three 10th circuit judges sit in Denver. Even so, clerking for any 10th circuit judge should give you a good shot at the Denver market, especially as a native (it’s fairly insular and difficult to crack otherwise).

[Anonymous User]

Former CA10 clerk now in Denver. Four judges have chambers here— Tymkovich, Lucero, Eid, Ebel. If you went to U Chicago, Eid likes to hire those people. Ebel seems to hire tippy top people from local schools. Tymkovich and Lucero appear to lean T14, the former virtually requires you to be on his ideological page (i.e., fedsoc). As the other poster said, clerking anywhere on the 10th will give you a shot (not a guarantee)at Denver. But at this point you’re looking at clerking 3ish years out of law school—a plus for some judges and a likely “no” for others. Not sure where these four stand on that question.

[Anonymous User]

When she was on the Colorado SC, at least, Eid had a sort of policy of hiring one CU grad, one DU grad, and one Chicago grad. Not sure she’s continuing that on the 10th though. (Also my impression was that people liked clerking for her, but again, can’t comment on what it’s like at the COA.)

[TatteredDignity]

Former CA10 clerk now in Denver. Four judges have chambers here— Tymkovich, Lucero, Eid, Ebel. If you went to U Chicago, Eid likes to hire those people. Ebel seems to hire tippy top people from local schools. Tymkovich and Lucero appear to lean T14, the former virtually requires you to be on his ideological page (i.e., fedsoc). As the other poster said, clerking anywhere on the 10th will give you a shot (not a guarantee)at Denver. But at this point you’re looking at clerking 3ish years out of law school—a plus for some judges and a likely “no” for others. Not sure where these four stand on that question.

I should have been more precise: three active judges have chambers in Denver. But an Ebel clerkship is probably just as good as the other three (except perhaps Tymkovich) for employment purposes.

[Anonymous User]

Original Poster: Again, I'm thinking about Denver post Chicago biglaw. Two things:

1) I may be able to get an app in for 2020, I saw Bacharach and Briscoe are open. Any insights?

2) What about for 2021? I saw Hartz, Holmes, Matheson, McHugh, Mortiz, and Tymkovich are open. I've heard a Tymkovich clerkship opens a lot of doors and is enjoyable. Any insight on the others?

[Anonymous User]

Avoid Holmes and Hartz like the plague.

[Anonymous User]

Avoid Holmes and Hartz like the plague.

Holmes's reputation is blown way out of proportion. It's a hard working clerkship but not even in the same ballpark as like a Kozinski used to be. Not a warm guy, but not a bad boss either from what I understand. Wouldn't be my first pick, but it's hard to be choosy.

I think Hartz is pretty idiosyncratic though, and his clerks rarely get to attend oral argument from what I know.

[Anonymous User]

In my opinion, Judge Bacharach is one of the nicest human beings on the planet, as well as a good judge. He'd be my top choice out of any of the judges you named.

On the list of judges to avoid, I'd put Matheson in front of either Hartz or Holmes. 365 days is a lot of days to spend in misery. (Well, I guess it's only 363. You get Christmas and Thanksgiving off. And maybe New Year's Day and the Fourth of July?)

[Anonymous User]

Avoid Holmes and Hartz like the plague.

Holmes's reputation is blown way out of proportion. It's a hard working clerkship but not even in the same ballpark as like a Kozinski used to be. Not a warm guy, but not a bad boss either from what I understand. Wouldn't be my first pick, but it's hard to be choosy.

I think Hartz is pretty idiosyncratic though, and his clerks rarely get to attend oral argument from what I know.

Cosign the underlined. Holmes chambers is hardworking and expectations are high, and it's not the place to find a chambers "family," but it's really a good clerkship. He also seems to have mellowed a little over time.

Bacharach chambers is much more familial and is also a great choice.

Briscoe doesn't bring all of her clerks to every argument, if that's important to you. She also gets her opinions out faster than pretty much anyone else.

[lavarman84]

Avoid Holmes and Hartz like the plague.

Holmes's reputation is blown way out of proportion. It's a hard working clerkship but not even in the same ballpark as like a Kozinski used to be. Not a warm guy, but not a bad boss either from what I understand. Wouldn't be my first pick, but it's hard to be choosy.

I think Hartz is pretty idiosyncratic though, and his clerks rarely get to attend oral argument from what I know.

I did not hear good things about Hartz. I was blown away when somebody told me he makes his law clerks sign up for a meeting time if they want to talk to him. As for Holmes, my only information on him is that he works his law clerks very, very hard unnecessarily. His opinions and bench memos are well past too long.

[Anonymous User]

Moritz is a very good clerkship experience.

[Anonymous User]

Avoid Holmes and Hartz like the plague.

Holmes's reputation is blown way out of proportion. It's a hard working clerkship but not even in the same ballpark as like a Kozinski used to be. Not a warm guy, but not a bad boss either from what I understand. Wouldn't be my first pick, but it's hard to be choosy.

I think Hartz is pretty idiosyncratic though, and his clerks rarely get to attend oral argument from what I know.

I did not hear good things about Hartz. I was blown away when somebody told me he makes his law clerks sign up for a meeting time if they want to talk to him. As for Holmes, my only information on him is that he works his law clerks very, very hard unnecessarily. His opinions and bench memos are well past too long.

One of the earlier anons. Holmes hours are probably a lot for a clerkship but don’t approach biglaw hours, to say nothing of Koz or something. The critique of his writing style is pretty fair though.

[Anonymous User]

Avoid Holmes and Hartz like the plague.

Holmes's reputation is blown way out of proportion. It's a hard working clerkship but not even in the same ballpark as like a Kozinski used to be. Not a warm guy, but not a bad boss either from what I understand. Wouldn't be my first pick, but it's hard to be choosy.

I think Hartz is pretty idiosyncratic though, and his clerks rarely get to attend oral argument from what I know.

I did not hear good things about Hartz. I was blown away when somebody told me he makes his law clerks sign up for a meeting time if they want to talk to him. As for Holmes, my only information on him is that he works his law clerks very, very hard unnecessarily. His opinions and bench memos are well past too long.

One of the earlier anons. Holmes hours are probably a lot for a clerkship but don’t approach biglaw hours, to say nothing of Koz or something. The critique of his writing style is pretty fair though.

Other anon from earlier. This.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure how full Judge McHugh's applications are, but she likes to take clerks with a bit more experience (though usually who have clerked in local D. Ct. or the Utah Supreme Court) and appears to be a delightful human being.

[Anonymous User]

Avoid Holmes and Hartz like the plague.

Holmes's reputation is blown way out of proportion. It's a hard working clerkship but not even in the same ballpark as like a Kozinski used to be. Not a warm guy, but not a bad boss either from what I understand. Wouldn't be my first pick, but it's hard to be choosy.

I think Hartz is pretty idiosyncratic though, and his clerks rarely get to attend oral argument from what I know.

Cosign the underlined. Holmes chambers is hardworking and expectations are high, and it's not the place to find a chambers "family," but it's really a good clerkship. He also seems to have mellowed a little over time.

Bacharach chambers is much more familial [/b]

Briscoe doesn't bring all of her clerks to every argument, if that's important to you. She also gets her opinions out faster than pretty much anyone else.

I clerked for Judge Holmes a few years ago. Unlike the poster above, I found it to be a truly treacherous experience. I won't repeat the complaints about the seventy-plus hour weeks, rigid work environment, and lengthy chamber's manual of rules. I also won't go into his policy of not recommending clerks for jobs, etc. That may make sense to some in an anonymous post.

My biggest complaint was that he was truly a bad person to us most of the time. At best, he worked alone, ate alone, and showed zero interest in our personal or professional lives. At worst, he sent humiliating emails about our failures and "deficiencies." His words were sometimes sharp and abusive. He would even CC all on occasion. It was quite shocking, particularly for a group of hardworking people with prior professional experiences and clerkships.

To the law student looking to clerk, I wholeheartedly recommend you consider any other judge before Judge Holmes. I'm not going to say much more, as he's the kind of person who would read this, track me down, and go out of his way to snub me during the unlikely event of an FBI background check.

[Anonymous User]

[deleted]

[Anonymous User]

Former CA10 clerk now in Denver. Four judges have chambers here— Tymkovich, Lucero, Eid, Ebel. If you went to U Chicago, Eid likes to hire those people. Ebel seems to hire tippy top people from local schools. Tymkovich and Lucero appear to lean T14, the former virtually requires you to be on his ideological page (i.e., fedsoc). As the other poster said, clerking anywhere on the 10th will give you a shot (not a guarantee)at Denver. But at this point you’re looking at clerking 3ish years out of law school—a plus for some judges and a likely “no” for others. Not sure where these four stand on that question.

I should have been more precise: three active judges have chambers in Denver. But an Ebel clerkship is probably just as good as the other three (except perhaps Tymkovich) for employment purposes.

What is Judge Tymkovich's reputation like? How is a clerkship with him better for employment purposes?

[LikelyThrowaway]

Former CA10 clerk now in Denver. Four judges have chambers here— Tymkovich, Lucero, Eid, Ebel. If you went to U Chicago, Eid likes to hire those people. Ebel seems to hire tippy top people from local schools. Tymkovich and Lucero appear to lean T14, the former virtually requires you to be on his ideological page (i.e., fedsoc). As the other poster said, clerking anywhere on the 10th will give you a shot (not a guarantee)at Denver. But at this point you’re looking at clerking 3ish years out of law school—a plus for some judges and a likely “no” for others. Not sure where these four stand on that question.

I should have been more precise: three active judges have chambers in Denver. But an Ebel clerkship is probably just as good as the other three (except perhaps Tymkovich) for employment purposes.

Do you mean Lucero isn't active? He still is, despite his age. Hasn't gone senior yet.

[nixy]

Pretty sure they meant three active judges (Eid, Tymkovich, and Lucero), and one senior judge, Ebel.

[HowAppealing]

Not in Denver, but Judge Carson's clerks seemed to really enjoy clerking for him.

[TatteredDignity]

Pretty sure they meant three active judges (Eid, Tymkovich, and Lucero), and one senior judge, Ebel.

This.

[Anonymous User]

Hartz, Lucero, Holmes are blacklisted by a T14 for abusing clerks. And said T14's absolute blacklist is very short so that's impressive. Bacharach reportedly is a phenomenal clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

That's great to hear, though my T14 forgot to inform me of how brutal the clerkship was for one of these three... As I reflect back, it was a totally unfulfilling year of benign neglect, sharp emails, and long hours ...

[Anonymous User]

Any additional insight on Matheson would be much appreciated.