District clerkship vs. Bankruptcy clerkship Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi everyone, was hoping I could get some feedback/info about a choice I might, if I'm lucky, have to make in the near future between the options in the title - my interviews are upcoming. Obviously, if I only land one (or neither), this question is moot.

Me: CA law student. Focused on litigation or litigation-adjacent practice. Preferred practice areas are general commercial, securities, white collar, antitrust, etc. I'm being somewhat vague here to preserve anonymity, but that should give you an idea. Long term, would like to obtain a wide range of experience, but I'm targeting Federal enforcement of the above areas, civil or criminal. I'm open to pretty much anything though as long as it's within that very general practice area.

Judge 1: Delaware Bankruptcy. Obviously if I was dedicated to BK practice this wouldn't even be a question, but I'm somewhat ambivalent towards it. I'm mostly interested in this clerkship because it seems to be a realistic (though not guaranteed, of course) avenue to clerking for the Chancery Court or 3rd Circuit. Please correct me if that's a faulty assumption. Alternatively, this clerkship would virtually guarantee a biglaw job in NY, which I definitely see as an acceptable outcome.

Judge 2: District Court in a large, but not particularly noteworthy district in the South. The judge is a Trump appointee, along with all the accoutrements you'd expect (FedSoc etc.). This raises some eyebrows for me, but the judge appears qualified and sane. It certainly wouldn't prevent me clerking there in a vacuum, but I am concerned about how that would play in a future job hunt. Additionally, this judge has a history with and seems focused on criminal matters, though their docket still runs the gamut of what comes up in the district.

So beyond seeking general guidance on what I might do here, I have a few specific questions: would the District Court clerkship still carry considerable weight in the large coastal markets? I have no desire to stay in the district the court is located in, or the South in general.

Also, would there be any stigma attached to the judge being a Trump appointee? I know a lot of people will pay lip service to the idea that it won't matter, but I'm not sure I believe that, especially given the markets I'm targeting.

Lastly, is the idea of a DE BK clerkship being a springboard to other, similar areas of the law realistic?

Any advice is appreciated.

[LBJ's Hair]

I don't think either of these are worth forgoing a year of BigLaw salary for.

If you're not gonna practice bankruptcy, don't do a Delaware bankruptcy court clerkship. It's not a particularly valuable credential and you won't be learning federal civil motion practice, which is like the most useful "skill" you get from a trial court clerkship. And no I don't think there's a special Third Circuit connection. Maybe with Ambro, because he was a bankruptcy judge and iirc he's in Delaware, but bankruptcy cases are appealed to district courts, not appellate courts---not like there's some working relationship between them.

Regarding the district court---don't think anyone is going to even know that this person is a "Trump" judge, to be honest with you, let alone care. They're gonna think "oh s/he clerked for the District of Alabama, cool. Also, why?" Which is what you should be asking yourself IMO---what does this do for you? If you want the experiential value, sure, but debatable whether a year clerking in the South is more useful than a year of BigLaw practice (I don't know, probably depends on the judge/docket and the law firm). But I don't think the (a) credential, and (b) network benefits are gonna do much in a large coastal market---district court in a flyover over state isn't like, much of a fancy gold star, and your network will be mostly back in the South.

My advice tbh is don't do either of these, work for a few years, and apply to district courts in your large coastal market. You'll be a much stronger candidate with work experience.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think either of these are worth forgoing a year of BigLaw salary for.

If you're not gonna practice bankruptcy, don't do a Delaware bankruptcy court clerkship. It's not a particularly valuable credential and you won't be learning federal civil motion practice, which is like the most useful "skill" you get from a trial court clerkship. And no I don't think there's a special Third Circuit connection. Maybe with Ambro, because he was a bankruptcy judge and iirc he's in Delaware, but bankruptcy cases are appealed to district courts, not appellate courts---not like there's some working relationship between them.

Regarding the district court---don't think anyone is going to even know that this person is a "Trump" judge, to be honest with you, let alone care. They're gonna think "oh s/he clerked for the District of Alabama, cool. Also, why?" Which is what you should be asking yourself IMO---what does this do for you? If you want the experiential value, sure, but debatable whether a year clerking in the South is more useful than a year of BigLaw practice (I don't know, probably depends on the judge/docket and the law firm). But I don't think the (a) credential, and (b) network benefits are gonna do much in a large coastal market---district court in a flyover over state isn't like, much of a fancy gold star, and your network will be mostly back in the South.

My advice tbh is don't do either of these, work for a few years, and apply to district courts in your large coastal market. You'll be a much stronger candidate with work experience.

Different poster, but in a similar situation. What would your thoughts be on a similar district court clerkship (Trump appointee; mid-sized southern city like Charlotte, Atlanta, Tampa, etc.; 2 years) v. a fellowship with a local/state government doing white-collar litigation with the hopes of doing a district/circuit clerkship in a major market afterwards? Main goal is being an AUSA in a major district like (EDVA, DC, NDIL, CDCA, NDCA, etc.) and don't have any full-time, non-short term jobs lined up post-grad yet.

[Anonymous User]

Based on my own federal experience and what I’ve seen of AUSA hiring, any federal district court clerkship trumps no clerkship. Is SDNY better than North Dakota? Sure, probably, in a vacuum, but I clerked in a “flyover” district and have the same gold star as any other clerk, for hiring purposes. So I’d definitely disagree with LBJ’s Hair about the value of a district court clerkship in the south, at least for the anon who wants to be an AUSA and probably the first anon as well. For the first anon, I can’t really comment much on biglaw hiring, but I think district court is more helpful long term than the BK court.

(Also some of this depends on your other options - if you can/are willing to work for a bit and then clerk, yeah, you will probably end up more competitive for a wider range of judges. If you really want to clerk first or you don’t have a biglaw job lined up, that may be less of an option.)

[LBJ's Hair]

I don't think either of these are worth forgoing a year of BigLaw salary for.

If you're not gonna practice bankruptcy, don't do a Delaware bankruptcy court clerkship. It's not a particularly valuable credential and you won't be learning federal civil motion practice, which is like the most useful "skill" you get from a trial court clerkship. And no I don't think there's a special Third Circuit connection. Maybe with Ambro, because he was a bankruptcy judge and iirc he's in Delaware, but bankruptcy cases are appealed to district courts, not appellate courts---not like there's some working relationship between them.

Regarding the district court---don't think anyone is going to even know that this person is a "Trump" judge, to be honest with you, let alone care. They're gonna think "oh s/he clerked for the District of Alabama, cool. Also, why?" Which is what you should be asking yourself IMO---what does this do for you? If you want the experiential value, sure, but debatable whether a year clerking in the South is more useful than a year of BigLaw practice (I don't know, probably depends on the judge/docket and the law firm). But I don't think the (a) credential, and (b) network benefits are gonna do much in a large coastal market---district court in a flyover over state isn't like, much of a fancy gold star, and your network will be mostly back in the South.

My advice tbh is don't do either of these, work for a few years, and apply to district courts in your large coastal market. You'll be a much stronger candidate with work experience.

Different poster, but in a similar situation. What would your thoughts be on a similar district court clerkship (Trump appointee; mid-sized southern city like Charlotte, Atlanta, Tampa, etc.; 2 years) v. a fellowship with a local/state government doing white-collar litigation with the hopes of doing a district/circuit clerkship in a major market afterwards? Main goal is being an AUSA in a major district like (EDVA, DC, NDIL, CDCA, NDCA, etc.) and don't have any full-time, non-short term jobs lined up post-grad yet.

So my advice to OP was predicated on the fact that s/he has an offer to make $200K a year at a fancy law firm. If you don't have *any* job lined up yet, feel like you're not in a position to be holding out for a dream clerkships in major metro areas, no? you need a job, period.

Based on my own federal experience and what I’ve seen of AUSA hiring, any federal district court clerkship trumps no clerkship. Is SDNY better than North Dakota? Sure, probably, in a vacuum, but I clerked in a “flyover” district and have the same gold star as any other clerk, for hiring purposes. So I’d definitely disagree with LBJ’s Hair about the value of a district court clerkship in the south, at least for the anon who wants to be an AUSA and probably the first anon as well. For the first anon, I can’t really comment much on biglaw hiring, but I think district court is more helpful long term than the BK court.

(Also some of this depends on your other options - if you can/are willing to work for a bit and then clerk, yeah, you will probably end up more competitive for a wider range of judges. If you really want to clerk first or you don’t have a biglaw job lined up, that may be less of an option.)

Sure, I've never been in hiring at the federal government, so can't speak to that. What I will say is at big NY law firms, people don't give a shit if you did a district court clerkship in the Southern District of Florida.

If OP or whoever else wants do that for the learning and experience, or to live somewhere random for a year and just explore in their late 20s, or whatever, like they should do that. Totally. Those are good reasons. Bad reasons are "this will be huge for my career as a civil litigator in NYC/SF/LA." it won't. if that's all you care about, wait two years, build your resume, and apply to district court judges in your major metro area. or don't clerk. plenty of DPW (or wherever) lit partners didn't.

to be clear---I'm not saying people should only clerk for fancy judges or whatever. im saying that if you're fairly indifferent to clerking---like, it doesn't sound interesting, you want the BigLaw money, you don't want to move, you really only want to clerk if it's gonna help your career in NY/CHI/LA/SF---then like, be particular about where you apply.

[Anonymous User]

DE bankruptcy court is almost certainly NOT a springboard to the third circuit. The qualifications for the two sets of clerks are in different universes. Unless you already have the resume for CA3 the bankruptcy clerkship will not help much, if at all.

[Wild Card]

Based on my own federal experience and what I’ve seen of AUSA hiring, any federal district court clerkship trumps no clerkship.

I interned for a season at a USAO, and we'd get emails about new hires with write ups on their qualifications. They all had district court clerkships--the vast majority in less desirable districts.

[lavarman84]

Different poster, but in a similar situation. What would your thoughts be on a similar district court clerkship (Trump appointee; mid-sized southern city like Charlotte, Atlanta, Tampa, etc.; 2 years) v. a fellowship with a local/state government doing white-collar litigation with the hopes of doing a district/circuit clerkship in a major market afterwards? Main goal is being an AUSA in a major district like (EDVA, DC, NDIL, CDCA, NDCA, etc.) and don't have any full-time, non-short term jobs lined up post-grad yet.

Do you have the connections or credentials to land a D. Ct. or COA clerkship in a major market? If you don't, a fellowship isn't going to fix that. On the other hand, a clerkship in a significant Southern city is the sort of thing that would open the door to an AUSA job in that district (and could possibly give you a chance at a COA clerkship, if you want one). You clerk for that year or two, you do another a year or two at a firm (or as a prosecutor if you want trial experience and don't need a firm salary), and then you're in a position to end up as an AUSA in that district. (It's even remotely possible you could land it out of the clerkship, but unlikely.)

Once you're an AUSA, it's going to be easier to transfer to another office (if you don't want to be in that district long term). It doesn't guarantee you can land in one of the major districts, but you have a shot.

[Anonymous User]

Different poster, but in a similar situation. What would your thoughts be on a similar district court clerkship (Trump appointee; mid-sized southern city like Charlotte, Atlanta, Tampa, etc.; 2 years) v. a fellowship with a local/state government doing white-collar litigation with the hopes of doing a district/circuit clerkship in a major market afterwards? Main goal is being an AUSA in a major district like (EDVA, DC, NDIL, CDCA, NDCA, etc.) and don't have any full-time, non-short term jobs lined up post-grad yet.

Do you have the connections or credentials to land a D. Ct. or COA clerkship in a major market? If you don't, a fellowship isn't going to fix that. On the other hand, a clerkship in a significant Southern city is the sort of thing that would open the door to an AUSA job in that district (and could possibly give you a chance at a COA clerkship, if you want one). You clerk for that year or two, you do another a year or two at a firm (or as a prosecutor if you want trial experience and don't need a firm salary), and then you're in a position to end up as an AUSA in that district. (It's even remotely possible you could land it out of the clerkship, but unlikely.)

Once you're an AUSA, it's going to be easier to transfer to another office (if you don't want to be in that district long term). It doesn't guarantee you can land in one of the major districts, but you have a shot.

I'm not too sure, around top 5% at a T25 and on LR. Not the greatest connections, been applying to positions posted on OSCAR. Not sure if I'd want to be in the district long term. I did go to college in the south (a nearby state), but don't really know anyone in this specific city. Fellowship seemed like a decent opportunity that would give me more time to keep applying, plus its in a major city. Interviews next week so I've been trying to figure out what to do, pretty sure I'd be expected to accept if i went through with it and was offered the position. Thanks for the advice!

[QContinuum]

any federal district court clerkship trumps no clerkship. Is SDNY better than North Dakota? Sure, probably, in a vacuum, but I clerked in a “flyover” district and have the same gold star as any other clerk, for hiring purposes.

Can't speak to federal hiring but even for BigLaw litigation purposes, the above is correct, IMO. Sure, the tippy-top practices will care where you clerked, and a D.Ala. clerkship (for example) won't cut it at those places, but at a generic AmLaw 100/200 firm, a D.Ala. clerkship (for example) is still a federal clerkship and you are still considered to have checked the federal clerkship box. There are only so many SDNY/NDCA/etc. spots to go around and the vast majority of litigators clerk somewhere comparatively less prestigious. Of course someone choosing between, say, SDNY and D.Ala. should choose SDNY, but in a vacuum, in a clerkship-or-no-clerkship situation, someone interested in litigation should absolutely do a clerkship rather than going without.

It's also increasingly acceptable to work a few years first before clerking. But, I feel like the work experience really only helps candidates who were already "on the edge" of landing a competitive clerkship straight out of law school. Someone who wasn't competitive for SDNY out of law school still won't be competitive for SDNY as a junior BigLawyer.