Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me? Forum

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Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:34 am

I have a clerkship lined up for 2017-18 with a judge that has been consistently named one of the most likely to get the nomination. What happens to me if that judge is nominated/confirmed before I start?

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:37 am

Yeah the GOP is not gonna let that fly, so I would not worry. Unless you mean it's whoever Trump is going to nominate in which case... Find a new job.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by Tls2016 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:42 am

Let this be your biggest problem in your life and career.

Seriously, don't worry about this in advance. This won't happen fast and the judge won't let you end up on the street.

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Br3v

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by Br3v » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:02 am

And Justices take their former COA clerks their first few terms all the time, so taking you isn't out of the question.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by kellyfrost » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:18 am

This could be an exciting time. Sit back and enjoy the ride.
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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by ggocat » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:19 am

You go with the judge most likely.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by rpupkin » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:31 pm

ggocat wrote:You go with the judge most likely.
Not necessarily.

Judges didn't use to hire 2-3 years in advance. We're in uncharted territory.

A SCOTUS judge can, of course, attract candidates that a COA judge cannot. For obvious reasons, SCOTUS judges prefer clerks with COA experience. I can see someone getting on SCOTUS and deciding that they want better (or at least more experienced) clerks than they could attract as a COA judge.
Last edited by rpupkin on Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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xael

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by xael » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:41 pm

rpupkin wrote:
ggocat wrote:You go with the judge most likely.
Not necessarily.

Judges didn't use to hire 2-3 years in advance. We're in uncharted territory.

A SCOTUS judge can, of course, attract candidates that a COA judge cannot. For obvious reasons, SCOTUS judges prefer clerks with COA experience. I can see someone getting on SCOTUS and deciding that they want better (or at least more experienced) clerks then they could attract as a COA judge.
I could see them pushing clerks without COA experience to 2018 or 2019, hiring more experienced clerks for 2017, and offering their replacement (on COA) their original 2017/2018 clerks so they can get experience.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by rpupkin » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:54 pm

xael wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
ggocat wrote:You go with the judge most likely.
Not necessarily.

Judges didn't use to hire 2-3 years in advance. We're in uncharted territory.

A SCOTUS judge can, of course, attract candidates that a COA judge cannot. For obvious reasons, SCOTUS judges prefer clerks with COA experience. I can see someone getting on SCOTUS and deciding that they want better (or at least more experienced) clerks then they could attract as a COA judge.
I could see them pushing clerks without COA experience to 2018 or 2019, hiring more experienced clerks for 2017, and offering their replacement (on COA) their original 2017/2018 clerks so they can get experience.
Agreed. One possible hitch in this plan is that it might take awhile for the replacement to get confirmed to the circuit court. During the Clinton, Bush, and Obama presidencies, some vacant D.C. Circuit seats remained unfilled for years. But, overall, I think you have the right idea: If someone has a SCOTUS clerkship lined up for a future term, it shouldn't be hard for them to land a COA clerkship in the meantime.

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xael

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by xael » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:02 pm

Interesting thing though is the supply of clerks: everyone who is qualified to clerk for SCOTUS in 2016-17 or 2017-18 (and a lot of them for 2018-19) already have clerkships.

I really hope that this leads all the judges/justices to take a second and be like "damn we really screwed this one back on the plan we go."

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by Emma. » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:34 pm

ggocat wrote:You go with the judge most likely.
Unlikely. The new justice isn't going to hire clerks that don't have COA experience, so OP would need to find another clerkship to be in the running. And I imagine most judges will be more likely to take past clerks they know and trust rather than the relatively unknown commodity of someone they hired for the COA but who never actually served as the judge's clerk.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:47 pm

When Sotomayor got called up her incoming clerks did not go with her. Instead she got ones already with COA experience and her incoming clerks had to still get COA experience with other judges.

I would imagine the same would happen with you. You would do COA with another judge with the potential of going up to SCOTUS the yr after

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:19 am

Agreed--a prof who got clerkship with COA judge who then got bumped up to SCOTUS in the interim had to find other COA clerkship first, then reinterview with his old judge again for the SCOTUS gig

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by rnoodles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:39 am

You ride with them on the journey to more success.

Bless up

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by jbagelboy » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:22 am

Emma. wrote:
ggocat wrote:You go with the judge most likely.
Unlikely. The new justice isn't going to hire clerks that don't have COA experience, so OP would need to find another clerkship to be in the running. And I imagine most judges will be more likely to take past clerks they know and trust rather than the relatively unknown commodity of someone they hired for the COA but who never actually served as the judge's clerk.
I imagine the sri/watford/garland/whoever clerks for 2017 would be added to the chambers of another judge in the circuit (similar to the backups older judges have in case of their passing), and then the new SCOTUS justice would take them after. They wont just go directly from the district court or 3L to scotus.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:55 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Emma. wrote:
ggocat wrote:You go with the judge most likely.
Unlikely. The new justice isn't going to hire clerks that don't have COA experience, so OP would need to find another clerkship to be in the running. And I imagine most judges will be more likely to take past clerks they know and trust rather than the relatively unknown commodity of someone they hired for the COA but who never actually served as the judge's clerk.
I imagine the sri/watford/garland/whoever clerks for 2017 would be added to the chambers of another judge in the circuit (similar to the backups older judges have in case of their passing), and then the new SCOTUS justice would take them after. They wont just go directly from the district court or 3L to scotus.
I don't think so. Once you've been formally hired (i.e. Gone through the HR stuff) you have the job regardless of whether your judge is on the bench for the whole year. But incoming clerks don't get slotted in with other chambers on that court if the judge leaves before they start. I don't even think Scalia's OT 2016 clerks have jobs at The Court.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by rpupkin » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Emma. wrote:
ggocat wrote:You go with the judge most likely.
Unlikely. The new justice isn't going to hire clerks that don't have COA experience, so OP would need to find another clerkship to be in the running. And I imagine most judges will be more likely to take past clerks they know and trust rather than the relatively unknown commodity of someone they hired for the COA but who never actually served as the judge's clerk.
I imagine the sri/watford/garland/whoever clerks for 2017 would be added to the chambers of another judge in the circuit (similar to the backups older judges have in case of their passing), and then the new SCOTUS justice would take them after. They wont just go directly from the district court or 3L to scotus.
I don't think so. Once you've been formally hired (i.e. Gone through the HR stuff) you have the job regardless of whether your judge is on the bench for the whole year. But incoming clerks don't get slotted in with other chambers on that court if the judge leaves before they start. I don't even think Scalia's OT 2016 clerks have jobs at The Court.
First, although you may be offered the job years in advance, you generally don't "go through your HR stuff" until immediately before your start date. While the judge may have privately offered you a clerkship, you have no formal employment relationship with the Court or the federal government until you start work (or right before you start). Second, once you are hired, I don't think it's accurate to say that you are employed for the whole year. I've never heard of a Court entering into one-year employment contracts with clerks. Like start date, a clerk's term of employment (12 months, 18 months, 24 months, whatever)) is something the clerk works out informally with the judge.
Last edited by rpupkin on Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by Emma. » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:08 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Emma. wrote:
ggocat wrote:You go with the judge most likely.
Unlikely. The new justice isn't going to hire clerks that don't have COA experience, so OP would need to find another clerkship to be in the running. And I imagine most judges will be more likely to take past clerks they know and trust rather than the relatively unknown commodity of someone they hired for the COA but who never actually served as the judge's clerk.
I imagine the sri/watford/garland/whoever clerks for 2017 would be added to the chambers of another judge in the circuit (similar to the backups older judges have in case of their passing), and then the new SCOTUS justice would take them after. They wont just go directly from the district court or 3L to scotus.
I don't think so. Once you've been formally hired (i.e. Gone through the HR stuff) you have the job regardless of whether your judge is on the bench for the whole year. But incoming clerks don't get slotted in with other chambers on that court if the judge leaves before they start. I don't even think Scalia's OT 2016 clerks have jobs at The Court.
First, although you may be offered the job years in advance, you generally don't "go through your HR stuff" until immediately before the job. Although the judge may have privately offered you a clerkship, you have no formal employment relationship with the Court or the federal government until you start work (or right before you start). Second, once you are hired, I don't think it's accurate to say that you are employed for the whole year. I've never heard of a Court entering into one-year employment contracts with clerks. Again, your term (12 months, 18 months, 24 months) is something the clerk works out informally with the judge.
I'm not sure I get your point. What I'm saying is that you don't have any guarantees until you actually start work. Judges aren't going to rescind their informal offers, but if the judge leaves the court all bets are are off. But courts will typically find room in other chamber for clerks who've already started work when their judge leaves the bench.

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xael

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by xael » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:11 pm

They are federal judges they do whatever the fuck they want

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by rpupkin » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:11 pm

Emma. wrote:
rpupkin wrote:I'm not sure I get your point. What I'm saying is that you don't have any guarantees until you actually start work. Judges aren't going to rescind their informal offers, but if the judge leaves the court all bets are are off. But courts will typically find room in other chamber for clerks who've already started work when their judge leaves the bench.
I agree with this. I'm not sure what point you think I'm not getting: I was responding to the anon poster above, who suggested that being "formally hired" had some significance here.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by Emma. » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:16 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Emma. wrote:
rpupkin wrote:I'm not sure I get your point. What I'm saying is that you don't have any guarantees until you actually start work. Judges aren't going to rescind their informal offers, but if the judge leaves the court all bets are are off. But courts will typically find room in other chamber for clerks who've already started work when their judge leaves the bench.
I agree with this. I'm not sure what point you think I'm not getting: I was responding to the anon poster above, who suggested that being "formally hired" had some significance here.
Ah lol, I was that poster. It was an accidental anon.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by newlawgrad » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:32 pm

Kind of shocking to me that the consensus seems your clerkship gets cancelled, and such is life. But when someone talks about reneging on a clerkship, it draws the ire of the world.

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by rpupkin » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:40 pm

newlawgrad wrote:Kind of shocking to me that the consensus seems your clerkship gets cancelled, and such is life. But when someone talks about reneging on a clerkship, it draws the ire of the world.
Hyperbole aside (ire of the world?), why is this shocking to you?

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xael

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by xael » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:40 pm

xael wrote:They are federal judges they do whatever the fuck they want

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Re: Clerking for possible SCOTUS nominee -- what happens to me?

Post by FSK » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:17 pm

Clerking is easily one of the stupidest parts of the legal profession.
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