Financial Resources for Volunteer Clerkship Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know of potential financial resources for volunteer federal clerkships?

Please Exclude:
being independently wealthy
school sponsorship

[A. Nony Mouse]

Those are the only ones I've heard of.

[Anonymous User]

After an initial search, I wasn't able to find scholarships available.

[hiima3L]

Getting a 2nd job.

[Anonymous User]

Getting a 2nd job.

I don't think this is viable. The fed. judicial code prevents law clerks from taking paying legal clients, and some judges bar their clerks from taking any paid work, including non-legal (my judge has this policy). In any case, the universe of jobs that would be compatible with a full-time clerkship is probably extremely limited (and low-paying).

[los blancos]

Yeah I was gonna say doc review drone or teaching the LSAT/driving Uber/whatever. I'd imagine very few judges if any allow the former and even if your judge allows the latter, probably not enough $ and probably would make your life hell and affect your performance at work.

[Anonymous User]

A related question -- how do people find 'volunteer' federal clerkships? Do they write the judge and say "I'll work for free"? Do judges post openings for these?

[Anonymous User]

A related question -- how do people find 'volunteer' federal clerkships? Do they write the judge and say "I'll work for free"? Do judges post openings for these?

SDNY judges post openings. You could always call chambers and ask.

[Manali]

How are judges legally allowed to do this? Serious question. It just seems really unethical and slimy. Do the volunteer "clerks" get the same responsibilities as paid clerks? Exploiting desperate grads is very different from offering a for-credit internship to a currently enrolled student.

[los blancos]

How are judges legally allowed to do this? Serious question. It just seems really unethical and slimy. Do the volunteer "clerks" get the same responsibilities as paid clerks? Exploiting desperate grads is very different from offering a for-credit internship to a currently enrolled student.

I think it's a supply-demand thing in the end - there are folks who can find a way to do this and survive and they're willing to do it for free to save/enhance their legal careers. I do agree it's a little... unseemly.

As for whether they get the same responsibility - varies by chambers, probably - but I get the impression there are places where they're identical to the other elbow clerks but are just not paid for their efforts.

A related question -- how do people find 'volunteer' federal clerkships? Do they write the judge and say "I'll work for free"? Do judges post openings for these?

I've seen a number of these on OSCAR.

[A. Nony Mouse]

A related question -- how do people find 'volunteer' federal clerkships? Do they write the judge and say "I'll work for free"? Do judges post openings for these?

I knew of people just writing judges and asking.

[bk1]

Getting a 2nd job.

I don't think this is viable. The fed. judicial code prevents law clerks from taking paying legal clients, and some judges bar their clerks from taking any paid work, including non-legal (my judge has this policy). In any case, the universe of jobs that would be compatible with a full-time clerkship is probably extremely limited (and low-paying).

Yeah I was gonna say doc review drone or teaching the LSAT/driving Uber/whatever. I'd imagine very few judges if any allow the former and even if your judge allows the latter, probably not enough $ and probably would make your life hell and affect your performance at work.

I don't think it's exactly sustainable, but it is really the only option other than the 2 OP excluded. Might be possible to do some combination of 2nd job+extreme frugality+loans/CCs to make it through the year. If OP can live for free with family, it becomes more realistic. I wouldn't recommend it, but it seems at least theoretically possible.

[Manali]

Can someone completing a volunteer federal "clerkship" get a clerkship bonus as a law firm associate if their responsibilities were identical to those of paid clerks?

[bk1]

Can someone completing a volunteer federal "clerkship" get a clerkship bonus as a law firm associate if their responsibilities were identical to those of paid clerks?

My guess would be it'll depend on the firm. I'm not sure volunteer clerkships are common enough for many firms to have even had to contemplate this question.

[JusticeJackson]

.

[wwwcol]

Can someone completing a volunteer federal "clerkship" get a clerkship bonus as a law firm associate if their responsibilities were identical to those of paid clerks?

(1) I don't see how the firm would even know it wasn't paid;

(2) From the small sample size I've seen, the type of person that's willing to do an unpaid clerkship typically doesn't have the resume to get a job at the type of firm that hands out clerkship bonuses. The ones I've seen couldn't land any legal job at all, so they went to their school and asked about some type of stipend while they do an unpaid clerkship. The stipend was like $20,000 per year.

Re: 1: Some judges will make you designate "unpaid" on your resume. Granted, you could decline to put that distinction on your resume, but it probably wouldn't be wise to contravene your judge's wishes. But if the judge doesn't care and you can list the clerkship just like paid clerks do, then I agree the firms probably won't ever know.

Agree re: 2, but I would add the slight qualification that I know a couple foreign nationals who took unpaid clerkships because federal law doesn't allow them to be paid (this also raises another tangential question about whether judges are willing to take just anyone as an unpaid clerk; it might be inconvenient to have an "inferior" clerk even if he is unapid). The credentials of the people I know were on par for BigLaw, though, and I know at least one of them got the standard bonus, so it happens at least sometimes. Bk is probably right though that it depends on the firm.

[Manali]

Are clerkship bonuses a BigLaw thing? Or do small- or mid-sized firms ever give bonuses to former clerks?

[rpupkin]

Are clerkship bonuses a BigLaw thing? Or do small- or mid-sized firms ever give bonuses to former clerks?

It's generally just a big law thing. Market-paying boutiques will also pay clerkship bonuses, but small- and mid-sized firms generally won't.

Here's a decent rule of thumb: If the firm doesn't pay big-law market salaries (or something close to them), then the firm probably doesn't pay clerkship bonuses.

[hiima3L]

A related question -- how do people find 'volunteer' federal clerkships? Do they write the judge and say "I'll work for free"? Do judges post openings for these?

I knew of people just writing judges and asking.

This is what my friend did. She more or less told the judge, "I'm moving into my parents' house where you sit and have no job lined up. I will do whatever you want me to do."

[RaceJudicata]

Is this a graduate position? Or during law school position? I'm an extern in a big-district fed court and judge has no problem w/ me working another legal position at a small firm. Had to disclose on both ends/fill out conflict forms, etc., but overall, hasn't been an issue at all. Really shitty of your judge to effectively control your ability to make any income

[bk1]

Is this a graduate position? Or during law school position? I'm an extern in a big-district fed court and judge has no problem w/ me working another legal position at a small firm. Had to disclose on both ends/fill out conflict forms, etc., but overall, hasn't been an issue at all. Really shitty of your judge to effectively control your ability to make any income

A volunteer clerkship is a post-grad position.

[tww909]

Can someone completing a volunteer federal "clerkship" get a clerkship bonus as a law firm associate if their responsibilities were identical to those of paid clerks?

(1) I don't see how the firm would even know it wasn't paid;

(2) From the small sample size I've seen, the type of person that's willing to do an unpaid clerkship typically doesn't have the resume to get a job at the type of firm that hands out clerkship bonuses. The ones I've seen couldn't land any legal job at all, so they went to their school and asked about some type of stipend while they do an unpaid clerkship. The stipend was like $20,000 per year.

note that the judicial conference has adopted new guidelines regarding volunteer clerkships. among other things they prohibit using variations on the title "law clerk." no idea if that affects big law bonuses, but it's a consideration.

http://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-c ... ference-us check the September 2014 report at 22-24.

[bk1]

note that the judicial conference has adopted new guidelines regarding volunteer clerkships. among other things they prohibit using variations on the title "law clerk." no idea if that affects big law bonuses, but it's a consideration.

http://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-c ... ference-us check the September 2014 report at 22-24.

Considering that the first rule says that volunteer positions must be either exclusively or primarily educational, if someone is unpaid while doing mostly actual law clerk work I see no problem with violating the rule that says they shouldn't be able to have the title of "law clerk" or a variation thereof.

[arodtoo]

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