Rank calculated before 3 students transferred. School won't re-rank. Weird? Forum

[Anonymous User]

My school gives us our rank once per year. But they did it before transfers, and 3 of the top 10 transferred out. Suppose this would move me from 8 overall to 5. I would think school would want to re-rank us to improve our clerkship chances (we are not at T14), but they don't do it. Is this weird? Does it even matter?

[Wolfpac2]

If I were you, I might just consider mentioning on your resume that you are now ranked 5th as of [enter date]. I think it is common for schools not to re-rank when people transfer, but I agree with you -- it does seem a bit illogical. Why not re-rank and give your students the best chance to nab a clerkship?

[A. Nony Mouse]

It doesn't make sense that they don't re-rank, but if they don't re-rank, you can't say on your resume that you're ranked 5. You can get really screwed doing that.

[rpupkin]

If I were you, I might just consider mentioning on your resume that you are now ranked 5th as of [enter date].

Don't do this.

[CanadianWolf]

Agree with rpupkin.

[pancakes3]

I think it's a bit of having your cake and eating it too by saying "Well the GPA that I'm reporting from 5 months ago was good enough for 8th best at my school but right now I'm the 5th best student at my school, so here's THAT gpa, but i'm going to give you the 'current' rank"

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Absolutely do no calculate your own rank. That would be a very bad decision. This sucks but even so you have a great rank and there is a good chance it won't affect anything.

[Wolfpac2]

If I were you, I might just consider mentioning on your resume that you are now ranked 5th as of [enter date].

Don't do this.

I am a current D. Ct. clerk who has begun reviewing apps for the 2016 term. I find notes like this helpful when I am screening applicants. Just my opinion. Wouldn't even cross my mind that an applicant was "lying."

[rpupkin]

If I were you, I might just consider mentioning on your resume that you are now ranked 5th as of [enter date].

Don't do this.

I am a current D. Ct. clerk who has begun reviewing apps for the 2016 term. I find notes like this helpful when I am screening applicants. Just my opinion. Wouldn't even cross my mind that an applicant was "lying."

Interesting perspective. But, like, how does a student in the OP's situation really know that they're now ranked fifth? Does he or she just happen to know the ranking of everyone ranked #1-#7, and then is able to calculate based on who transferred and who didn't? That seems...uh...unofficial. What if one of the folks who transferred out told the OP that he was ranked #3 even though he was actually ranked #15?

You probably shouldn't self-assign a class rank based on anecdotes and inferences.

[A. Nony Mouse]

If I were you, I might just consider mentioning on your resume that you are now ranked 5th as of [enter date].

Don't do this.

I am a current D. Ct. clerk who has begun reviewing apps for the 2016 term. I find notes like this helpful when I am screening applicants. Just my opinion. Wouldn't even cross my mind that an applicant was "lying."

Schools have rules about how students can represent themselves on their resumes. I'm sure it would be helpful for you to know what rank someone is who's at a school that doesn't rank, but it's considered dishonesty for that person to estimate.

[Wolfpac2]

If I were you, I might just consider mentioning on your resume that you are now ranked 5th as of [enter date].

Don't do this.

I am a current D. Ct. clerk who has begun reviewing apps for the 2016 term. I find notes like this helpful when I am screening applicants. Just my opinion. Wouldn't even cross my mind that an applicant was "lying."

Interesting perspective. But, like, how does a student in the OP's situation really know that they're now ranked fifth? Does he or she just happen to know the ranking of everyone ranked #1-#7, and then is able to calculate based on who transferred and who didn't? That seems...uh...unofficial. What if one of the folks who transferred out told the OP that he was ranked #3 even though he was actually ranked #15?

You probably shouldn't self-assign a class rank based on anecdotes and inferences.

Yes, I agree with you here. I suppose I was operating under the presumption that OP had confirmed this information with the school (i.e., when he asked them if they re-rank). If OP is just surmising his rank based off of word of mouth, then my advice would be different.

[Wolfpac2]

If I were you, I might just consider mentioning on your resume that you are now ranked 5th as of [enter date].

Don't do this.

I am a current D. Ct. clerk who has begun reviewing apps for the 2016 term. I find notes like this helpful when I am screening applicants. Just my opinion. Wouldn't even cross my mind that an applicant was "lying."

Schools have rules about how students can represent themselves on their resumes. I'm sure it would be helpful for you to know what rank someone is who's at a school that doesn't rank, but it's considered dishonesty for that person to estimate.

Also, for what it's worth, my school did not rank. We were encouraged to provide approximate rank estimates (based on ascertainable, accurate GPA data points) if such estimates would more accurately demonstrate our competitiveness for the clerkship.

After seeing the hiring process from the other side, I understand why this is helpful. School GPAs vary so much that it is hard to tell what is top 10%, 15%, et cetera, when comparing applicants. But yes, I now recognize that OP's situation is perhaps different.

[Anonymous User]

There's a difference between your school "not re-ranking" and not publicizing the fact that they do; I'd reckon that they'd re-rank/tell you your rank for clerkship opportunities if you met with your clerkship counselor. They have a vested interest in you finding a clerkship.

If they truly don't re-rank, I wouldn't mention your "estimated rank" on your transcript.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, I totally agree that not having ranks makes evaluating GPAs next to impossible. At some schools a 3.3 would be bottom 10%, at others it's top quarter. So I totally get why someone would want to know that.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for the responses. I will talk to clerkship counselor about this. Was just curious if this was a standard law school (or maybe even ABA) practice, or if my school was an outlier.

Oh also -- I do not know officially that I moved up 3, but I was pretty good friends with the 3 who left and I don't think they were b.s.-ing. Either way, I would definitely not represent anything other than my official, school-provided rank on a resume. Way too risk averse.

[rpupkin]

OP here. Thanks for the responses. I will talk to clerkship counselor about this. Was just curious if this was a standard law school (or maybe even ABA) practice, or if my school was an outlier.

Oh also -- I do not know officially that I moved up 3, but I was pretty good friends with the 3 who left and I don't think they were b.s.-ing. Either way, I would definitely not represent anything other than my official, school-provided rank on a resume. Way too risk averse.

Good plan. As others have suggested, you may find out from your clerkship counselor that the school will tell you (and allow you to put on your resume) your current rank even though the school officially calculates rank only once per year. Good luck.

[BVest]

And don't forget, the original #5 (with a higher GPA) may be sending out clerkship apps as well. What happens when chambers sees two members of the same 1L class with different GPAs who claim to be #5?

[Germaine]

And don't forget, the original #5 (with a higher GPA) may be sending out clerkship apps as well. What happens when chambers sees two members of the same 1L class with different GPAs who claim to be #5?

But wouldn't this be a problem at every school that does re-rank after transfers? There will be an original #5 and a new #5. Have to figure the fact that the original #5 is applying from a different school would explain the discrepancy pretty clearly.

[BVest]

And don't forget, the original #5 (with a higher GPA) may be sending out clerkship apps as well. What happens when chambers sees two members of the same 1L class with different GPAs who claim to be #5?

But wouldn't this be a problem at every school that does re-rank after transfers? There will be an original #5 and a new #5. Have to figure the fact that the original #5 is applying from a different school would explain the discrepancy pretty clearly.

Yes, it would be a problem at every school that re-ranks. Which is why I think re-ranking is weird generally.

As for your fact, that's a fact not in evidence and that doesn't logically have to be so. What if 4, 6, and 7 transferred out? Now there's one guy properly listing his #5 and one guy with a lower GPA claiming #5 because he disagrees with the school policy that puts him at #8. Which is why if your school has no re-ranking, you should report your actual given rank.

[kartelite]

If I were you, I might just consider mentioning on your resume that you are now ranked 5th as of [enter date].

Don't do this.

I am a current D. Ct. clerk who has begun reviewing apps for the 2016 term. I find notes like this helpful when I am screening applicants. Just my opinion. Wouldn't even cross my mind that an applicant was "lying."

Why would you find it helpful to know that three people transferred out of OP's school?

[Schulte212]

I agree that it does not make a huge difference, but I find it helpful to know how one stacks up against his or her peers when evaluating GPAs. A ranking of 5th is better than a ranking of 8th. My comments in this thread were, in essence, an attempt to advise OP on how he might best market himself as he applies for clerkships. If you were truly ranked 5th and not 8th, irrespective of how you made the jump, would you not prefer to place 5th on your resume if you were able? If he was ranked 3rd but is now rank 1st because of transfers, would you not want to know this information?

5th may only be marginally better than 8th (especially since the jump was caused by transfers), but every positive piece of information helps when separating candidates.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I mean, re-ranking after transfers doesn't actually change someone's performance relative to their classmates. If they were ranked #3, there were 2 people who got higher grades that year. Those 2 people still got higher grades, they're just not at the school anymore. (I understand why someone would want to be able to put #1 on their resume instead, that's totally normal, but why it matters to anyone hiring them that some people in their class transferred out, I don't get.)

[Anonymous User]

OP again. I think what had me wondering about this was a conversation I had with a former clerk for one of my target judges, who said that when he was screening applications, he was under instructions to make a cut at top 5 (for students coming from my range of school). So I just figured this was not unheard of -- that for some judges, 5 is materially different than 8.

[rpupkin]

OP again. I think what had me wondering about this was a conversation I had with a former clerk for one of my target judges, who said that when he was screening applications, he was under instructions to make a cut at top 5 (for students coming from my range of school). So I just figured this was not unheard of -- that for some judges, 5 is materially different than 8.

Yeah, that's why shit like this matters. Look, OP, if you can find a way to list a school-authorized "5 of XXX" on your resume, you should do it.