Applying for judge as a previous intern. Forum

[sponge268]

I'm applying for a judge that I previously interned with while I was still in law school. Internship was recent enough that it's still on my resume. Should I leave it on when submitting my application, or would it be weird?

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think it would be weird to leave it off, myself. I know s/he knows you did the internship but it's still relevant to your application.

You may also want to call up chambers to find out if the judge takes applications from prior interns (if you haven't done that already).

[sponge268]

Thanks. My understanding is that the judge almost always hires clerks who were formerly interns but I will check with chambers. Are there judges who typically don't hire previous interns?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Thanks. My understanding is that the judge almost always hires clerks who were formerly interns but I will check with chambers. Are there judges who typically don't hire previous interns?

Yeah, there are. Probably they'd have said something to you about it if so? But it might be worth checking just to be safe. (Plenty of judges do hire former interns so it's not likely a problem, just wanted to throw it out there.)

[Anonymous User]

If anything, it's the norm that judges don't hire their interns as clerks. Some do, or even prefer it as your judge may, but those are the outliers as a general rule.

[2012LawGrad]

If anything, it's the norm that judges don't hire their interns as clerks. Some do, or even prefer it as your judge may, but those are the outliers as a general rule.

Having interned in three different chambers and clerked in two, this is my impression as well.

[FrattyBoh]

If anything, it's the norm that judges don't hire their interns as clerks. Some do, or even prefer it as your judge may, but those are the outliers as a general rule.

Having interned in three different chambers and clerked in two, this is my impression as well.

Very interesting. Why is this the case? Wouldn't the former interns have a leg up as far as the learning curve/judge's preferences?

[Anonymous User]

The most common explanation for the no-intern as clerks rule is this: almost no judge will end up hiring 100% of her interns as clerks. This could be because they didn't like an intern, didn't think their work was up to par, because their grades after fall 1L (all judges have when hiring 1L summer interns) could have gone downhill, or just because they don't want to take only interns when amazing applicants are out there. Given that they won't take all, or even most, of their interns, if those unselected interns apply to other judges, it's a black mark. Other judges will wonder why u didn't get a job with the judge u interned for (think applying to firms as a 3L after not getting an offer from ur 2L summer firm). Also the intern judge can't really serve as a recommender either, because they will have to answer why they didn't hire them as well. Therefore it is actually better for interns--as a class of persons--for judges to have a hard rule against hiring interns as clerks.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Plenty of judges just don't serve as recommenders for anyone, because they're concerned it will look like they're leveraging their judicial position to influence employers (that is, an employer who appears before the judge may not want to turn down someone the judge recommended, for fear of offending the judge; or conversely, the judge doesn't want employers hiring a recommendee because they think the judge will favor them because of it).

My understanding was more that not hiring former interns avoids awkwardness of turning down someone they know, and prevents people from applying just to get a clerkship later. I've never heard that future employers would consider it a black mark, because there are lots of reasons why an applicant may not end up applying to the judge they interned with.

But I suspect there is regional variation - most judges in my law school market hired former interns, and at least one did so regularly. One who didn't wrote letters for his interns.

[Anonymous User]

Plenty of judges just don't serve as recommenders for anyone, because they're concerned it will look like they're leveraging their judicial position to influence employers (that is, an employer who appears before the judge may not want to turn down someone the judge recommended, for fear of offending the judge; or conversely, the judge doesn't want employers hiring a recommendee because they think the judge will favor them because of it).

My understanding was more that not hiring former interns avoids awkwardness of turning down someone they know, and prevents people from applying just to get a clerkship later. I've never heard that future employers would consider it a black mark, because there are lots of reasons why an applicant may not end up applying to the judge they interned with.

But I suspect there is regional variation - most judges in my law school market hired former interns, and at least one did so regularly. One who didn't wrote letters for his interns.

I agree, but you can also be almost certain that any judge you interview with for a clerkship will call up the judge you interned for and ask about you. Even though I didn't list the judge I interned for as a recommender, he was still called and I think his positive recommendation got me the clerkship.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Plenty of judges just don't serve as recommenders for anyone, because they're concerned it will look like they're leveraging their judicial position to influence employers (that is, an employer who appears before the judge may not want to turn down someone the judge recommended, for fear of offending the judge; or conversely, the judge doesn't want employers hiring a recommendee because they think the judge will favor them because of it).

My understanding was more that not hiring former interns avoids awkwardness of turning down someone they know, and prevents people from applying just to get a clerkship later. I've never heard that future employers would consider it a black mark, because there are lots of reasons why an applicant may not end up applying to the judge they interned with.

But I suspect there is regional variation - most judges in my law school market hired former interns, and at least one did so regularly. One who didn't wrote letters for his interns.

I agree, but you can also be almost certain that any judge you interview with for a clerkship will call up the judge you interned for and ask about you. Even though I didn't list the judge I interned for as a recommender, he was still called and I think his positive recommendation got me the clerkship.

Sure, but giving an opinion once asked is completely different from actively volunteering to vouch for you. (Also, I'm pretty sure neither of the judges I clerked for called any of the judges I'd interned for.) I'm sure there are judges who don't hire interns for the reasons you gave, but I don't think that's universal. Besides, if another judge does call someone you've interned for, it's not like that judge is going to say only "I didn't hire intern X because I never hire former interns" and then hang up the phone - the judge you interned for is going to give an assessment of you as an intern regardless.

[2012LawGrad]

Every judge I have worked for had much higher standards for hiring clerks than for bringing on interns. That makes sense considering how the applicant pool for clerkships is much more saturated than that for judicial internships. Having a no-interns-as-clerks policy allows judges to bring interns onboard without awkwardness, and to give the opportunity to a broad range of students. It makes everyone's lives easier.

As with most rules, there are probably exceptions. I am also pretty sure that if an intern proved to be an absolute rockstar, many judges with a no-interns-as-clerks policy would consider breaking it.

[Anonymous User]

The judge i interned for does not hire them as clerks, but is serving as a recommender. Not only a reference, but wrote a letter of rec.

Clearly the takeaway is every judge is different.