Clerkship Chances? Forum

[Anonymous User]

-HYS
-Above median but not top of class -- best guess, around the edge of top third
-No relevant geographic ties
-Letters of rec exist but are probably not incredible
-K-JD 1L hoping for K-Clerkship
-Law review
-Several other extracurriculars
-Clear PI commitment

Will apply to district and CoA, geographically flexible, hoping for a "PI" judge
Thoughts on my chances, or a PI judge who might not throw my app in the trash?

[Anonymous User]

You're competitive for all district court clerkships and most non-feeder COA clerkship. COA clerkships in 2nd, DC, and 9th Circuits might be tough (since people who get those are generally among top 15% at HYS), though still worth sending in apps.

[Anonymous User]

kind of depends on whether you're at H or YS
I'm guessing not Y since you're able to estimate class rank.
If you're top third at S you're probably eligible for several 9th cir judges, besides the true feeders (kozinski, Reinhardt, ect)
If you're at H your academic profile is very strong but without professors willing to call judges they know on your behalf, COA might be tough at this point in the game. You could look for a d. ct. clerkship for 2017 with a judge that hires a lot of grads from your school and then after 2L when you have some stronger recs and profs willing to go to bat for you, you could apply for competitive COA for 2018.
You'll definitely get a clerkship though if you want one. Regarding PI judges, it depends on the strength of your public interest background. Just FYI if you worked in the private sector before law school and you're planning on doing an SA at a firm, that might hurt you with some judges

[nothingtosee]

kind of depends on whether you're at H or YS
I'm guessing not Y since you're able to estimate class rank.
If you're top third at S you're probably eligible for several 9th cir judges, besides the true feeders (kozinski, Reinhardt, ect)
If you're at H your academic profile is very strong but without professors willing to call judges they know on your behalf, COA might be tough at this point in the game. You could look for a d. ct. clerkship for 2017 with a judge that hires a lot of grads from your school and then after 2L when you have some stronger recs and profs willing to go to bat for you, you could apply for competitive COA for 2018.
You'll definitely get a clerkship though if you want one. Regarding PI judges, it depends on the strength of your public interest background. Just FYI if you worked in the private sector before law school and you're planning on doing an SA at a firm, that might hurt you with some judges

This is silly - most COA judges aren't even reading applications until three semesters of grades come out.

[Anonymous User]

kind of depends on whether you're at H or YS
I'm guessing not Y since you're able to estimate class rank.
If you're top third at S you're probably eligible for several 9th cir judges, besides the true feeders (kozinski, Reinhardt, ect)
If you're at H your academic profile is very strong but without professors willing to call judges they know on your behalf, COA might be tough at this point in the game. You could look for a d. ct. clerkship for 2017 with a judge that hires a lot of grads from your school and then after 2L when you have some stronger recs and profs willing to go to bat for you, you could apply for competitive COA for 2018.
You'll definitely get a clerkship though if you want one. Regarding PI judges, it depends on the strength of your public interest background. Just FYI if you worked in the private sector before law school and you're planning on doing an SA at a firm, that might hurt you with some judges

This is silly - most COA judges aren't even reading applications until three semesters of grades come out.

same anon
that's true nationwide but not for 2/9/DC, many of whom have already completed 2017 hiring and are moving on to 2018 (which would be one year after graduation for an incoming 2L). I don't see how what I said conflicts with your statement. the first wave of clerkship hiring occurs in july-august after 1L for one set of judges, and then there's another wave from spring-summer of 2L (and there many judges look for three or four semesters of grades), and a final set of d. ct. judges doing last minute hiring for the coming fall (but usually these are judges hiring alums). Fair warning though, given how quickly clerkship hiring as escalated, if you wait until late spring/summer of 2016, you could easily be interviewing for positions in 2018 or even 2019 if you want to clerk in a traditionally desirable location; that's just how this works now. There's nothing wrong with doing your clerkship a year or two after graduation anymore though.

[nothingtosee]

Fair play

[Anonymous User]

-HYS
-Above median but not top of class -- best guess, around the edge of top third
-No relevant geographic ties
-Letters of rec exist but are probably not incredible
-K-JD 1L hoping for K-Clerkship
-Law review
-Several other extracurriculars
-Clear PI commitment

Will apply to district and CoA, geographically flexible, hoping for a "PI" judge
Thoughts on my chances, or a PI judge who might not throw my app in the trash?

Your application profile is basically identical to mine, except I wasn't on LR and didn't target PI judges. I got multiple interviews with both D. Ct. and COAs, and ended up taking a D. Ct. offer. With more hustling, probably would've had a decent chance in a non-DC/2/9 COA.

FWIW the vast majority of the fed. judiciary will not immediately "throw your resume in the trash" since you're HYS+LR.

[Anonymous User]

Z

[Anonymous User]

nevermind, sorry.

[Anonymous User]

sorry for my ignorance -- what's a PI judge??

[grand inquisitor]

1 in 3

[ndirish2010]

sorry for my ignorance -- what's a PI judge??

A judge that favors people who are interested in public interest.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the original anon. This is all helpful and encouraging! I'd rather be in a district court anyway. Can anyone recommend any great PI judges? It's hard to figure that stuff out except through word of mouth, and a lot of the names I've seen discussed on these boards are feeders / CoA / too much of a reach for me.

[A. Nony Mouse]

The only thing I can think of is research the judges and find out what they did before they became a judge. You may be able to ask your CSO for the local judges. Also try googling law clerks for a given judge and see what jobs they go into (I realize this is a fair amount of legwork but I think if you're talking DCt there are so many judges, there's not likely to be any kind of compilation of which ones are PI friendly - you will likely have to whittle down from the collective. Would be thrilled to be wrong, though).

[Anonymous User]

You have a legit shot at most district court judges and a lot of COA judges. My recommendation would be to bear down on grades and try to lock up a 2017 district court clerkship with someone good. You should be focusing on Obama appointees with good reputations in good districts - those are people who will teach you a lot and set you up for your career. Your endgame should be a 2018 COA clerkship with someone who likes PI candidates. Someone like McKeown or Thomas or Paez on the 9th would be a good candidate for you. (Thomas also hires quite late and is in Montana, so you may be able to get a 2017 spot if that's something you'd be interested in).

[Emma.]

You have a legit shot at most district court judges and a lot of COA judges. My recommendation would be to bear down on grades and try to lock up a 2017 district court clerkship with someone good. You should be focusing on Obama appointees with good reputations in good districts - those are people who will teach you a lot and set you up for your career. Your endgame should be a 2018 COA clerkship with someone who likes PI candidates. Someone like McKeown or Thomas or Paez on the 9th would be a good candidate for you. (Thomas also hires quite late and is in Montana, so you may be able to get a 2017 spot if that's something you'd be interested in).

Why the bolded if OP would prefer the district court?

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

You have a legit shot at most district court judges and a lot of COA judges. My recommendation would be to bear down on grades and try to lock up a 2017 district court clerkship with someone good. You should be focusing on Obama appointees with good reputations in good districts - those are people who will teach you a lot and set you up for your career. Your endgame should be a 2018 COA clerkship with someone who likes PI candidates. Someone like McKeown or Thomas or Paez on the 9th would be a good candidate for you. (Thomas also hires quite late and is in Montana, so you may be able to get a 2017 spot if that's something you'd be interested in).

Why the bolded if OP would prefer the district court?

Because a D. Ct. clerkship isn't preftigious enough for TLS, even if it aligns better with OP's interests and/or career goals.

[Anonymous User]

I think posters ITT are being overly optimistic about OP's competitiveness. I'm top 10%ish (possibly higher) at HYS with strong recs and a few years of WE. I've struck out in NDCA and DDC (so far), and classmates with similar profiles have as well (and in SDNY). OP is definitely competitive for most districts, but not *all* districts. Many judges in NDCA/DDC/SDNY are full for 2017.

Ellison (SDTX) is a great D.Ct judge for PI clerks, though he is quite selective.

[Anonymous User]

I think posters ITT are being overly optimistic about OP's competitiveness. I'm top 10%ish (possibly higher) at HYS with strong recs and a few years of WE. I've struck out in NDCA and DDC (so far), and classmates with similar profiles have as well (and in SDNY). OP is definitely competitive for most districts, but not *all* districts. Many judges in NDCA/DDC/SDNY are full for 2017.

Ellison (SDTX) is a great D.Ct judge for PI clerks, though he is quite selective.

Given that OP is geographically flexible, I don't think people are being overly optimistic. The randomness of clerkship hiring is what allows someone top 10% at HYS to strike out in the most competitive districts, and allows someone barely above median to snag a clerkship in one of those districts. As a median-ish HY grad who clerked on one of those districts, I can tell you that at least my judge couldn't make heads or tails of the grading system at H, Y, or S, and basically treated everyone whose transcript looked like they had at least as many Hs as Ps the same.

If OP Is willing to go just about anywhere to clerk, I would imagine he (or she) would wind up with a district court gig somewhere.

[Anonymous User]

I think posters ITT are being overly optimistic about OP's competitiveness. I'm top 10%ish (possibly higher) at HYS with strong recs and a few years of WE. I've struck out in NDCA and DDC (so far), and classmates with similar profiles have as well (and in SDNY). OP is definitely competitive for most districts, but not *all* districts. Many judges in NDCA/DDC/SDNY are full for 2017.

Ellison (SDTX) is a great D.Ct judge for PI clerks, though he is quite selective.

Given that OP is geographically flexible, I don't think people are being overly optimistic. The randomness of clerkship hiring is what allows someone top 10% at HYS to strike out in the most competitive districts, and allows someone barely above median to snag a clerkship in one of those districts. As a median-ish HY grad who clerked on one of those districts, I can tell you that at least my judge couldn't make heads or tails of the grading system at H, Y, or S, and basically treated everyone whose transcript looked like they had at least as many Hs as Ps the same.

If OP Is willing to go just about anywhere to clerk, I would imagine he (or she) would wind up with a district court gig somewhere.

To contrast this, an SDNY judge I worked for evaluated HLS grades with precision -- old ass scientific calculator and all -- and knew exactly how low he'd go; same for CLS and NYU. That being said, it's not like you needed all H's or anything. But don't fool yourself into thinking judges and their clerks (who, in districts like SDNY, are basically all T6 alums), can't parse a transcript.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Given that OP is geographically flexible, I don't think people are being overly optimistic. The randomness of clerkship hiring is what allows someone top 10% at HYS to strike out in the most competitive districts, and allows someone barely above median to snag a clerkship in one of those districts. As a median-ish HY grad who clerked on one of those districts, I can tell you that at least my judge couldn't make heads or tails of the grading system at H, Y, or S, and basically treated everyone whose transcript looked like they had at least as many Hs as Ps the same.

If OP Is willing to go just about anywhere to clerk, I would imagine he (or she) would wind up with a district court gig somewhere.

Leaving aside the transcript stuff (I have no idea about that), I agree with the above. NDCA, DDC, and SDNY are widely regarded as the most competitive districts in the country, tougher than some COAs, so striking out at them (especially if not actually applying as an alum - I've heard they strongly prefer work experience, which means post-law school) isn't indicative of the chances of someone who's willing to apply broadly.

[Anonymous User]

As anony and others suggest, chances are much better for someone who's geographically flexible. Obviously chances are also much better for someone's who willing to apply outside the most competitive districts in the country like DDC/SDNY/NDCAL etc.

As for PI judges, another one is Totenberg (NDGA).

[Person1111]

I think posters ITT are being overly optimistic about OP's competitiveness. I'm top 10%ish (possibly higher) at HYS with strong recs and a few years of WE. I've struck out in NDCA and DDC (so far), and classmates with similar profiles have as well (and in SDNY). OP is definitely competitive for most districts, but not *all* districts. Many judges in NDCA/DDC/SDNY are full for 2017.

Ellison (SDTX) is a great D.Ct judge for PI clerks, though he is quite selective.

I think OP is competitive for at least some judges in any district, although there are specific judges in the districts you listed (and others - e.g., I think OP would be a long shot for a clerkship with Thapar in E.D. Ky.) who OP probably does not have the grades to clerk for. But it's not particularly common to see candidates from HYS with good grades, law review, and a demonstrated commitment to public interest, and those candidates tend to do extremely well with judges who care about hiring clerks with a public service bent. This is not akin to biglaw hiring. The name of the game is standing out, and those applicants tend to stand out in a very good way (even compared to those with better grades).

[Anonymous User]

Hey OP,

If you go to HLS, OCS provides a list of anecdotally PI-friendly judges. It is available online but buried. Just click around for extra resources.