"Best" non-D.DC/SDNY district courts Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm looking at some judges in EDVA and D.MD in case I don't get any interviews in D.DC. I'm also looking at NDIL, NDTX, and NDOH. I'm definitely a dick for phrasing it this way, but whats the relative prestige as far as how they are viewed?

[Anonymous User]

There's a correlation between district competitiveness and preftige, and all these districts are pretty competitive (as are all districts with major cities in them). Other than being home to big cities, though, there's so little in common with these districts that it's tough to say. And some districts will be perceived differently between NY and DC, and between firms within city. DC will generally like EDVA DMD more than NY, and the DC/NY officd of a Chicago firm is probably gonna like NDIL more than others. Such a broad hypo that it's rrally hard to go into more detail.

[Anonymous User]

I guess the core of my question is, assuming D.DC and SDNY are the best, what are the next "best" courts to clerk on?

[Anonymous User]

The one that gives you an offer.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP.

What kind of stats does it take to clerk for SDNY or DC district? I am top 5 percent at a top 20 with E board on my school's LR-- rising 3L. Solid recommendations. Looking primarily at 17-18. Pretty sure my odds are slim but would love to get all of your thoughts. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

The one that gives you an offer.

Obviously any clerkship offer is good. But if we put that aside, I'm asking which courts are best.

[A. Nony Mouse]

The one that gives you an offer.

[A. Nony Mouse]

A little more seriously, "best" to whom? If you want to work in Mpls the answer is probably different than if you want to work in Miami or LA or so on. If you want generic biglaw general lit the answer is probably different than if you have more specific niche goals.

I would say the "best" is probably with a judge who has connections to the market/employers in your chosen future field, but none of us know what that is.

[emciosn]

I agree with Nony. It sort of depends on what sort of work you want to do. If you are big into IP you probably want to look at jurisdictions like D. Del., D. Mass. or NDCA. My understanding is that those are all considered "prestigious" but probably mostly because they are super competitive for IP types (it seems like IP jurisdictions get a general prestige bump for some reason). Maybe that sort of work doesn't interest you though? If you want to see a lot of criminal work or maybe general litigation maybe you want to add, for example, CDCA to your list? Pretty busy jurisdiction from what I understand. If you want to see oil and gas litigation (assuming that's a thing?), maybe you want to add SDTX to your list? If you want to work in a jurisdiction where your ties are otherwise limited, getting a clerkship there is a good way to create a tie to trumpet when interviewing. And so on.

I get what you're saying that SDNY/DC seem to be perceived as objectively the best for D. Ct. clerkships but outside of that its difficult to come up with a definitive second tier because the inquiry begins to depend more on practice area and geographical preferences.

[Anonymous User]

It doesn't really work like this for district court clerkships. The courts are too big and too varied for there to be bests within the bests. With very few exceptions (like the DDC), there are enough judges on each of these districts for there to generally be several less competitive / regarded judges on every top district as well as several all stars. And folks know that.

That said, I do think that if you'll find that there are a small number of districts at which people will presume that you're clerking for a good and competitive judge -- DDC, SNDY, NDCAL, NDIL, and maybe a few others. But I don't think it's accurate or helpful to try to rank those courts against each other, with the possible exception of DDC which I do think most people do treat as being > the rest. Instead, try to keep your eyes open for who the best judges on each court are. So, for example, getting a Breyer or Koh (NDCAL) or Feinerman or Chang (NDIL) clerkship should definitely be higher on your list then getting just any SDNY clerkship, assuming at least that you are just trying to get the "best" clerkship and don't care about geography.

The actual best advice that someone can give you about these things is that you probably shouldn't be just trying to get the best possible district court clerkship -- instead, try to do your dct clerkship in the district in which you plan on practicing. Clerking with Koh on the NDCAL will do you far less good if you're practicing in St. Louis than a EDMO (or whatever the local court is) clerkship--even though pretty much everyone will agree that NDCAL > EDMO and Koh is one of the most well-regarded judges in the country. The only reason to be looking for the "best" district court clerkship nationally is if you really have no idea where you'll end up -- and I have trouble imagining that there are more than a small handful of students competitive for these "best" clerkships who genuinely are as likely to be in NY as they are Chicago or Boston.

Edit: one good way to try to determine if a district is well-regarded is to look at (1) where it's located; and (2) how many top law schools are in the area. SDNY is well-regarded and highly-desirable in large part because there's a ton of interesting law going on in NY, a deep talent pool to pull judges from, and a deep talent pool to pull clerks from (including not only Columbia/NYU but the many other folks who want to be in NYC). NDIL is similar with Chicago and U of C and Northwestern, as is NDCAL with the Bay Area and Stanford/Berkeley. If you're trying to distinguish between other districts, this probably isn't a bad rule of thumb to apply. But I maintain that it's not particularly helpful to differentiate between districts in this way.

[jbagelboy]

the answer you're looking for is probably something like EDNY, NDCA, CDCA, NDIL, maybe D. Mass. As far as difficulty to get is concerned.

[Anonymous User]

I used to hear SDNY > DDC > N/C/SDCA, NDIL, EDVA, EDNY, and probably others I'm missing> any district in a good city > any district in a bad city

But, as others have said, a local clerkship in the city you want to make a career in trumps all. If you're in Dallas, a Dallas superior court clerkship will be at least as valuable as a SDNY clerkship.

During the patent boom EDTX had draw, but I bet there's less YLS grads looking to clerk in Marshall these days.

[rpupkin]

I'm looking at some judges in EDVA and D.MD in case I don't get any interviews in D.DC. I'm also looking at NDIL, NDTX, and NDOH. I'm definitely a dick for phrasing it this way, but whats the relative prestige as far as how they are viewed?

NDOH ascended into the T10 in the most recent clerkship rankings, but that was controversial--as recently as 2006, NDOH wasn't even T20. I'd avoid D.MD. It was once semi-prestigious, but its rank has fallen of late because the median law-school GPA of its clerks has declined.

[A. Nony Mouse]

[abl]

I'm looking at some judges in EDVA and D.MD in case I don't get any interviews in D.DC. I'm also looking at NDIL, NDTX, and NDOH. I'm definitely a dick for phrasing it this way, but whats the relative prestige as far as how they are viewed?

NDOH ascended into the T10 in the most recent clerkship rankings, but that was controversial--as recently as 2006, NDOH wasn't even T20. I'd avoid D.MD. It was once semi-prestigious, but its rank has fallen of late because the median law-school GPA of its clerks has declined.

Clerkship rankings?

[rpupkin]

I'm looking at some judges in EDVA and D.MD in case I don't get any interviews in D.DC. I'm also looking at NDIL, NDTX, and NDOH. I'm definitely a dick for phrasing it this way, but whats the relative prestige as far as how they are viewed?

NDOH ascended into the T10 in the most recent clerkship rankings, but that was controversial--as recently as 2006, NDOH wasn't even T20. I'd avoid D.MD. It was once semi-prestigious, but its rank has fallen of late because the median law-school GPA of its clerks has declined.

Clerkship rankings?

Didn't you get a copy? SLS made a big deal about them in its most recent alumni newsletter. (Nor surprisingly, SLS grads are doing very well in the T6 districts.)

[abl]

I'm looking at some judges in EDVA and D.MD in case I don't get any interviews in D.DC. I'm also looking at NDIL, NDTX, and NDOH. I'm definitely a dick for phrasing it this way, but whats the relative prestige as far as how they are viewed?

NDOH ascended into the T10 in the most recent clerkship rankings, but that was controversial--as recently as 2006, NDOH wasn't even T20. I'd avoid D.MD. It was once semi-prestigious, but its rank has fallen of late because the median law-school GPA of its clerks has declined.

Clerkship rankings?

Didn't you get a copy? SLS made a big deal about them in its most recent alumni newsletter. (Nor surprisingly, SLS grads are doing very well in the T6 districts.)

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about (and googling "Stanford Law School" clerkship ranking only turns up a bunch of news re SLS placing well in clerkships).

[pertristis]

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about (and googling "Stanford Law School" clerkship ranking only turns up a bunch of news re SLS placing well in clerkships).

It's what we in this profession like to call a "joke." They're rare, but they occasionally happen.

[abl]

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about (and googling "Stanford Law School" clerkship ranking only turns up a bunch of news re SLS placing well in clerkships).

It's what we in this profession like to call a "joke." They're rare, but they occasionally happen.

Ah. My bad.

[jbagelboy]

I'm looking at some judges in EDVA and D.MD in case I don't get any interviews in D.DC. I'm also looking at NDIL, NDTX, and NDOH. I'm definitely a dick for phrasing it this way, but whats the relative prestige as far as how they are viewed?

NDOH ascended into the T10 in the most recent clerkship rankings, but that was controversial--as recently as 2006, NDOH wasn't even T20. I'd avoid D.MD. It was once semi-prestigious, but its rank has fallen of late because the median law-school GPA of its clerks has declined.

Clerkship rankings?

Didn't you get a copy? SLS made a big deal about them in its most recent alumni newsletter. (Nor surprisingly, SLS grads are doing very well in the T6 districts.)

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about (and googling "Stanford Law School" clerkship ranking only turns up a bunch of news re SLS placing well in clerkships).

you seriously googled this? that's hilarious. he's trolling you there is no such thing as a prestige ranking of clerkships.

[Anonymous User]

For a variety of reasons, where you want to practice generally matters the most. If you are deadset on a certain subject matter, other districts might make more sense. For instance, securities litigation - SDNY; IP - NDCA; reg/admin - DDC. Outside of that, I don't think it matters a whole lot for subject matter. I clerk for a DJ who has handled about a dozen IP cases in a decade on the bench. They just are not common in this district.

Which brings me to my second point. If you just want to leverage a clerkship for professional reasons, what matters the most is the judge you clerk for. I may be clerking in a "less prestigious" district (lol), but the judge is so insanely connected across the country. It's mind-blowing. And if I want to stay in the secondary city I'm in, there really is no one better to know in this city as far as I can tell. He also really goes to bat for his clerks, which cannot be said about a surprising number of judges.

[abl]

I'm looking at some judges in EDVA and D.MD in case I don't get any interviews in D.DC. I'm also looking at NDIL, NDTX, and NDOH. I'm definitely a dick for phrasing it this way, but whats the relative prestige as far as how they are viewed?

NDOH ascended into the T10 in the most recent clerkship rankings, but that was controversial--as recently as 2006, NDOH wasn't even T20. I'd avoid D.MD. It was once semi-prestigious, but its rank has fallen of late because the median law-school GPA of its clerks has declined.

Clerkship rankings?

Didn't you get a copy? SLS made a big deal about them in its most recent alumni newsletter. (Nor surprisingly, SLS grads are doing very well in the T6 districts.)

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about (and googling "Stanford Law School" clerkship ranking only turns up a bunch of news re SLS placing well in clerkships).

you seriously googled this? that's hilarious. he's trolling you there is no such thing as a prestige ranking of clerkships.

Yea, I thought it was really dumb. It's an obviously ridiculous premise.

[JusticeJackson]

.

[rpupkin]

Yea, I thought it was really dumb. It's an obviously ridiculous premise.

Apparently not obviously ridiculous enough. Sorry you spent time googling; I wasn't trying to fool anyone.

[abl]

Yea, I thought it was really dumb. It's an obviously ridiculous premise.

Apparently not obviously ridiculous enough. Sorry you spent time googling; I wasn't trying to fool anyone.

It took 5 seconds. My bad for missing the joke.