Possible Clerkship or Firm Job? Forum

[lawstudentap23]

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[trebekismyhero]

I am currently a summer associate at a mid-size firm in a major northeast market. I am the only summer associate, so many of the partners and associates have implied an offer is very likely. However, I am unsure if I would want to stay at this firm and if I like the firm culture. I have applied for SSC clerkships within the region and have an interview with one of the SSCs. Other associates have expressed that the firm was non-committal about holding an offer to do a clerkship when they were offered the job, so the associates withdrew their clerkship apps and accepted the firm's offer.

I am torn between taking the safer path for job security and working at the firm or taking the riskier path and pursuing a clerkship (fwiw I have always wanted to clerk and have interned in both state and federal courts and enjoyed it very much). If it helps, I am top 5% of my class, on LR, and will be graduating debt-free (full scholarship at a low-rank school).

Has anyone faced this decision? I am seeking advice.

I think it depends on the SSC. If it is MA or NY, definitely take that. If we are talking Maine or something like that, I am not sure how much value firms will put on it. But if you don't think you'll be happy at your current firm take the SSC if it is offered and just hustle and network

[Anonymous User]

I had a similar experience with a midsize firm, but secondary market. I decided that my SA firm wasn't a great fit, and I started mailing out clerkship applications immediately (before the SA position had ended). Firm did not make decisions on SA's at end of summer.

I received a clerkship interview about a week after SA ended. Received the offer the following week. Accepted the clerkship without speaking with SA firm, who had not made a decision on SAs yet. They ended up not making decisions until quite late in the year, well after I had accepted my clerkship, and no offered every one.

Clerkship has been successful, and I'm happy with my decision. I received interviews that I did not get through OCI -- I was top 1/3, journal, and had generous scholy. I received two job offers (V100; regional powerhouse). But, this was a risk -- a friend on the same court had the same experience as me, but has not found post-clerkship employment yet (although he was top 10%, no journal, scholy). The main difference between that clerk and me has been our networking efforts.

All that said, I think you are counting your chickens. Go to interview and see what happens. If you get a clerkship offer, then you can face this decision, but it's premature to walk down this path when you don't have one in hand.

[lawstudentap23]

I had a similar experience with a midsize firm, but secondary market. I decided that my SA firm wasn't a great fit, and I started mailing out clerkship applications immediately (before the SA position had ended). Firm did not make decisions on SA's at end of summer.

I received a clerkship interview about a week after SA ended. Received the offer the following week. Accepted the clerkship without speaking with SA firm, who had not made a decision on SAs yet. They ended up not making decisions until quite late in the year, well after I had accepted my clerkship, and no offered every one.

Clerkship has been successful, and I'm happy with my decision. I received interviews that I did not get through OCI -- I was top 1/3, journal, and had generous scholy. I received two job offers (V100; regional powerhouse). But, this was a risk -- a friend on the same court had the same experience as me, but has not found post-clerkship employment yet (although he was top 10%, no journal, scholy). The main difference between that clerk and me has been our networking efforts.

All that said, I think you are counting your chickens. Go to interview and see what happens. If you get a clerkship offer, then you can face this decision, but it's premature to walk down this path when you don't have one in hand.

Thanks for the thorough response! I definitely am worrying a bit prematurely (yay for anxiety) because as of right now I don't have either the offer from the firm or clerkship offers. The summer associate program will be ending the same week as one of the clerkship interviews, so the timing is a bit awkward on this one. I know that from the past, the firm does have a high offer rate and usually extends them about a week after the program ends. I suppose if they extend an offer and I have not heard back from any of the clerkships, I can ask the firm for additional time to make the decision?

Also, just out of curiosity what made the firm not a good fit for you? I have never worked in private practice before so am unsure if this firm's culture is standard or atypical. The workload is high for a summer (11 hour days) and the associates and partners don't seem to take a great interest in getting to know me.

[Anonymous User]

There were a number of things, including some of the ones you mentioned. Really, it came down to practice area and recognizing that I wasn't interested in what their bread and butter was, especially when they could not tell me which area I would end up working in if I came back. Still, you will never be 100% happy, but your SA summer is supposed to be the best experience you have there. If you aren't happy now, you probably won't be happy later because it's downhill from there.

And, yes, you can ask the firm for time to make a decision. They should give you time to begin with. Once you get the offer, you need to circle back to places where you had interviews and let them know there was movement and ask if they can move faster as a result.

I know there has been some discussion on this board about turning down a judge and what the etiquette is. I am on a state court, and I would not risk getting an offer from a judge and turning it down at this level if you plan to stay in the area (especially if it's a small community). If you go for an interview with the judge, you need to be willing to commit should you get an offer. In my judge's chambers, there is still talk about how one person even hesitated when an offer was extended. If that's the case, turning it down would have been a huge mistake.

[lawstudentap23]

There were a number of things, including some of the ones you mentioned. Really, it came down to practice area and recognizing that I wasn't interested in what their bread and butter was, especially when they could not tell me which area I would end up working in if I came back. Still, you will never be 100% happy, but your SA summer is supposed to be the best experience you have there. If you aren't happy now, you probably won't be happy later because it's downhill from there.

And, yes, you can ask the firm for time to make a decision. They should give you time to begin with. Once you get the offer, you need to circle back to places where you had interviews and let them know there was movement and ask if they can move faster as a result.

I know there has been some discussion on this board about turning down a judge and what the etiquette is. I am on a state court, and I would not risk getting an offer from a judge and turning it down at this level if you plan to stay in the area (especially if it's a small community). If you go for an interview with the judge, you need to be willing to commit should you get an offer. In my judge's chambers, there is still talk about how one person even hesitated when an offer was extended. If that's the case, turning it down would have been a huge mistake.

[Anonymous User]

I guess I don't see how the timing is difficult. You will presumably get an offer from your firm at the end of the summer, which at most firms will be held open at least until October 1: if your firm is a NALP member, NALP guidelines state that "Employers offering full-time positions to commence following graduation to candidates previously employed by them should leave those offers open until at least October 1 of the candidate’s final year of law school[.]" During that time you can wait for this judge's decision and potentially interview with the other judges, telling them in the interview that your firm will need an answer by October 1 (or whatever date).

If your firm wants a faster response, your options are (1) ask the firm for more time, (2) tell the judges your firm is demanding an answer, or (3) accept the offer from your firm but risk reneging. My sense is that asking your firm to hold your offer open until October 1 would not be unreasonable, and if they are unwilling to do that I would reconsider whether the firm is a good place to work.

[lawstudentap23]

I guess I don't see how the timing is difficult. You will presumably get an offer from your firm at the end of the summer, which at most firms will be held open at least until October 1: if your firm is a NALP member, NALP guidelines state that "Employers offering full-time positions to commence following graduation to candidates previously employed by them should leave those offers open until at least October 1 of the candidate’s final year of law school[.]" During that time you can wait for this judge's decision and potentially interview with the other judges, telling them in the interview that your firm will need an answer by October 1 (or whatever date).

If your firm wants a faster response, your options are (1) ask the firm for more time, (2) tell the judges your firm is demanding an answer, or (3) accept the offer from your firm but risk reneging. My sense is that asking your firm to hold your offer open until October 1 would not be unreasonable, and if they are unwilling to do that I would reconsider whether the firm is a good place to work.

Thank you for the response. It isn't a NALP firm, so I don't know how long they keep offers open for. I am sure that they will give me time to think about it nonetheless.

[Anonymous User]

Have you even decided what you want to do yet (clerk or start at firm)? Because that will answer how you deal with it.

Either way wait until you get an offer (assuming you do at the end of summer), say how much you appreciate it, then ask them if they would be willing to give you some time to decide. Firms normally do this out of courtesy without issue (regardless of NALP status).

If you want to clerk -- Once you have something in hand, circle back with the judge had interviewed with if you haven't heard anything yet. The judges that are waiting until September probably aren't going to move up their timeline, especially when you haven't even interviewed with them. Let the judge you interviewed with know that you have received an offer, you are contacting him as requested, and ask if there has been any movement on his end. If he asks for time, let him know your timeframe for getting back to the firm.

If you don't want to clerk (and at this point, it's if you don't want to clerk for the judge you have interviewed with) -- You accept the offer, then you call the judges' chambers that you have outstanding applications with and tell them you are withdrawing your app.

[lawstudentap23]

Have you even decided what you want to do yet (clerk or start at firm)? Because that will answer how you deal with it.

Either way wait until you get an offer (assuming you do at the end of summer), say how much you appreciate it, then ask them if they would be willing to give you some time to decide. Firms normally do this out of courtesy without issue (regardless of NALP status).

If you want to clerk -- Once you have something in hand, circle back with the judge had interviewed with if you haven't heard anything yet. The judges that are waiting until September probably aren't going to move up their timeline, especially when you haven't even interviewed with them. Let the judge you interviewed with know that you have received an offer, you are contacting him as requested, and ask if there has been any movement on his end. If he asks for time, let him know your timeframe for getting back to the firm.

If you don't want to clerk (and at this point, it's if you don't want to clerk for the judge you have interviewed with) -- You accept the offer, then you call the judges' chambers that you have outstanding applications with and tell them you are withdrawing your app.

[Anonymous User]

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[lawstudentap23]

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