Decision Time (advice) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Alum here. Grades are about 1/3 at penn. Currently working at v100 on east coast. Recently interviewed for a California clerkship. Have been given strong indications by judge and clerks that it will be offered but they are not making a decision on co clerks until December and are therefore waiting.

Cart before the horse and all, I would much prefer, for family reasons, to be on the east coast close to philly or ny chi Boston. Having said that love the judge. Love the clerks currently there.

Just take it if offered or hope for something closer to home? Applied in July, first I have really heard one way or another.

[VulcanVulcanVulcan]

Alum here. Grades are about 1/3 at penn. Currently working at v100 on east coast. Recently interviewed for a California clerkship. Have been given strong indications by judge and clerks that it will be offered but they are not making a decision on co clerks until December and are therefore waiting.

Cart before the horse and all, I would much prefer, for family reasons, to be on the east coast close to philly or ny chi Boston. Having said that love the judge. Love the clerks currently there.

Just take it if offered or hope for something closer to home? Applied in July, first I have really heard one way or another.

If you have until December, that gives you like two months to find something else, right?

[Anonymous User]

Alum here. Grades are about 1/3 at penn. Currently working at v100 on east coast. Recently interviewed for a California clerkship. Have been given strong indications by judge and clerks that it will be offered but they are not making a decision on co clerks until December and are therefore waiting.

Cart before the horse and all, I would much prefer, for family reasons, to be on the east coast close to philly or ny chi Boston. Having said that love the judge. Love the clerks currently there.

Just take it if offered or hope for something closer to home? Applied in July, first I have really heard one way or another.

If you have until December, that gives you like two months to find something else, right?

It does, but I've already applied to a ton and haven't heard a peep yet. Seems risky that this could be my only shot (and obviously a pretty good shot).

[seizmaar]

what's the dilemma here? you keep looking until you get a firm offer, and then you decide. the biggest bummer will be not getting moving $$$ for that cross-country trip.

[target]

Is it a one year, or two year clerkship? And can you go back to your firm after the clerkship? I am not sure why you would leave your current position with a V100, move across the country for a one-year clerkship, especially the clerkship is not in your desired location. Am I missing something here?

[Anonymous User]

what's the dilemma here? you keep looking until you get a firm offer, and then you decide. the biggest bummer will be not getting moving $$$ for that cross-country trip.

I realize that, but I think that once the firm offer (hopefully comes) it will require an immediate response. At which point, it is either 1) accept and move across the country or 2) risk it being the only clerkship I am offered.

[Anonymous User]

Is it a one year, or two year clerkship? And can you go back to your firm after the clerkship? I am not sure why you would leave your current position with a V100, move across the country for a one-year clerkship, especially the clerkship is not in your desired location. Am I missing something here?

One year. Probably can come back to my firm - not sure about a bonus though.


This question worries me. Maybe I am the one missing something? I have friends that clerked in some reallllly random (definitely not preferred locations) and now work at pretty prestigious firms, solely because of those clerkships. I also thought that a federal district clerkship, even in sort of a "flyover" district, was usually a nobrainer. As far as missing something - I don't have out of this world stats. As with most people, I am not going to make partner. I'm in litigation. If I want to continue the practice of law, it's probably going to be in government or something that is hard to get into. I really thought clerking was almost a prequisite for that, especially these days. Not to mention, I thought it would be rather easy for me to get a firm job back on the east coast after, with a 50k bonus.

Am i mistaken?

[Doritos]

Is it a one year, or two year clerkship? And can you go back to your firm after the clerkship? I am not sure why you would leave your current position with a V100, move across the country for a one-year clerkship, especially the clerkship is not in your desired location. Am I missing something here?

One year. Probably can come back to my firm - not sure about a bonus though.


This question worries me. Maybe I am the one missing something? I have friends that clerked in some reallllly random (definitely not preferred locations) and now work at pretty prestigious firms, solely because of those clerkships. I also thought that a federal district clerkship, even in sort of a "flyover" district, was usually a nobrainer. As far as missing something - I don't have out of this world stats. As with most people, I am not going to make partner. I'm in litigation. If I want to continue the practice of law, it's probably going to be in government or something that is hard to get into. I really thought clerking was almost a prequisite for that, especially these days. Not to mention, I thought it would be rather easy for me to get a firm job back on the east coast after, with a 50k bonus.

Am i mistaken?

I think the poster is referring to the difficulties some face gaining employment even off of Art. III clerkships. See the clerkship hiring thread from the previous year. I have heard of folks even coming off of D. Ct clerkships in major markets having a bit of trouble, or at least finding the process not to be as simple as they thought.

[Anonymous User]

Is it a one year, or two year clerkship? And can you go back to your firm after the clerkship? I am not sure why you would leave your current position with a V100, move across the country for a one-year clerkship, especially the clerkship is not in your desired location. Am I missing something here?

One year. Probably can come back to my firm - not sure about a bonus though.


This question worries me. Maybe I am the one missing something? I have friends that clerked in some reallllly random (definitely not preferred locations) and now work at pretty prestigious firms, solely because of those clerkships. I also thought that a federal district clerkship, even in sort of a "flyover" district, was usually a nobrainer. As far as missing something - I don't have out of this world stats. As with most people, I am not going to make partner. I'm in litigation. If I want to continue the practice of law, it's probably going to be in government or something that is hard to get into. I really thought clerking was almost a prequisite for that, especially these days. Not to mention, I thought it would be rather easy for me to get a firm job back on the east coast after, with a 50k bonus.

Am i mistaken?

I think the poster is referring to the difficulties some face gaining employment even off of Art. III clerkships. See the clerkship hiring thread from the previous year. I have heard of folks even coming off of D. Ct clerkships in major markets having a bit of trouble, or at least finding the process not to be as simple as they thought.

Right - I did check that out and it was certainly disconcerting. The one poster in particular was frightening but it seemed to go the other way as well with anecdotal evidence to both extremes. I would've hoped my few years in big law already might help and that the risk that I come out with nothing was minimal, or at least not that much different that the possibility that I'm axed as a 4/5 year as is always a possibility just about anywhere. I guess I was always looking at is as Writing Your Own Ticket to a degree rather than a massive huge financial personal and professional risk this thread is making me believe it is.

[Anonymous User]

Is it a one year, or two year clerkship? And can you go back to your firm after the clerkship? I am not sure why you would leave your current position with a V100, move across the country for a one-year clerkship, especially the clerkship is not in your desired location. Am I missing something here?

One year. Probably can come back to my firm - not sure about a bonus though.


This question worries me. Maybe I am the one missing something? I have friends that clerked in some reallllly random (definitely not preferred locations) and now work at pretty prestigious firms, solely because of those clerkships. I also thought that a federal district clerkship, even in sort of a "flyover" district, was usually a nobrainer. As far as missing something - I don't have out of this world stats. As with most people, I am not going to make partner. I'm in litigation. If I want to continue the practice of law, it's probably going to be in government or something that is hard to get into. I really thought clerking was almost a prequisite for that, especially these days. Not to mention, I thought it would be rather easy for me to get a firm job back on the east coast after, with a 50k bonus.

Am i mistaken?

I think the poster is referring to the difficulties some face gaining employment even off of Art. III clerkships. See the clerkship hiring thread from the previous year. I have heard of folks even coming off of D. Ct clerkships in major markets having a bit of trouble, or at least finding the process not to be as simple as they thought.

Right - I did check that out and it was certainly disconcerting. The one poster in particular was frightening but it seemed to go the other way as well with anecdotal evidence to both extremes. I would've hoped my few years in big law already might help and that the risk that I come out with nothing was minimal, or at least not that much different that the possibility that I'm axed as a 4/5 year as is always a possibility just about anywhere. I guess I was always looking at is as writing your own ticket to a degree rather than a massive huge financial personal and professional risk this thread is making me believe it is.

Since I didn't hear a response really, I reached out to some parties (former clerks, current clerks, school resources, recruiters) to try and gauge the market and have yet to hear any reticence about taking a clerkship and the market after. While I realize that 1) some of these parties have an implicit agenda, and 2) all qualified that they could not guarantee it, it still seems like quite the feather in the cap and won't preclude much. Anyone want to further discourage me with realities (perhaps I'm looking for a reason to stay)?

[Anonymous User]

It is pretty simply to me. Why do you want clerk? Are you in litigation? Do you want a break from the firm life? Are you looking to move to a different field/firm or govt? These are all questions only you can answer. As a clerk I have to say that I love this job. But I also know that while generally most clerks feel the same, if you have a "difficult" judge or chambers staff, it is going to be a long year for you. In the big scheme of things, one year is not that long – especially as a law clerk since you would be pretty busy most days. The real risk is that you might have difficulty securing firm job after clerking – depending on the circumstances.

The only real question is finding employment after clerking. This depends largely on where you are clerking, how connected your judge is, your prior experience, and what the market is like in the future. While there are many clerks who have difficulty finding jobs, if you follow those threads, you can see that they usually land something. So the question to your answer depends on your motives for clerking and if it is worth that risk. As my mentor told me when I was in your situation trying to wait a clerkship in a better location "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" and I am glad I listed to him. Only you can answer these questions. Also does your firm hire its associates back after they finish clerking? I rarely hear of a firm not hiring its associates back after clerking (unless you are in corporate or other non litigation department) – in fact you should be getting a bonus for it as well.

Good luck!!

[Anonymous User]

I clerked with a co-clerk who was pretty much in your exact situation except that she was clerking in her home market (which is in a district that is as prestigious and probably more prestigious than NDCA, CACA, or SDCA). She was CCN, worked at a V100 for about 5 years, and, much like you, knew that she was not going to make partner so she left to clerk for a year. Her firm seemed happy she was going to clerk, but didn't say either way whether she could expect to have her seat kept warm for the year she was gone. Her feeling was that it was pretty much implied that she would not be returning, which to her was fine because she expected to land another biglaw job or a position at a lit. boutique or a good mid-size firm. In the end, she didn't like clerking all that much and, to make matters worse, she found it way more difficult than she had anticipated to line something up before she left. The problem was was that in the 5 years she was working in biglaw, she had little independent litigation experience -- so mid-size firms wouldn't hire her because she couldn't run her own cases. Although she did eventually find a job about 3 or 4 months after the clerkship ended, it was at a small firm (10-20 people), which was not her ideal choice. She's now making a ton less than she would have in biglaw and working (mostly, though not entirely) the same hours.

I'm not saying don't do it -- but I certainly would think it through. While employers may think clerking to be a credit to young attorneys just out or only 2-3 yrs out of law school, it seems a little late for you at this point in your career. You should be focusing on developing your current job or working on other employment prospects in your market, not taking a trip across the country to work for the year on some random district court (and yes, even NDCA is random if you intend to work in South Carolina). Anyways, if you really want to do this then do it. You should just be aware this is probably not the slam-dunk you think it is.

[Anonymous User]

Definitely appreciate this input and directly above is my nightmare. I suppose having a guarantee that I can come back would make this a lot easier and I should try and navigate that. I have to think they would take/want me back but I'm not certain that their policy will allow them. Just doesnt seem to put much merit on it.

It's not that I dislike the firm, firm life (other than billing pressures), or don't want to work in private practice. Really just want options. Most of us aren't making partner, period. I want to stay in lit. Clerkship seems necessary for government. In house lit jobs don't exist. Seriously don't know what else to do really?

Anything about that situation that might have contributed? My friends in the situation and school advisors insist this is unlikely but I don't think I could stomach working the same hours for half the pay at a small firm with no support.

Also should note I'm not THAT far into career. Would basically take place of my fourth year.

[target]

Definitely appreciate this input and directly above is my nightmare. I suppose having a guarantee that I can come back would make this a lot easier and I should try and navigate that. I have to think they would take/want me back but I'm not certain that their policy will allow them. Just doesnt seem to put much merit on it.

It's not that I dislike the firm, firm life (other than billing pressures), or don't want to work in private practice. Really just want options. Most of us aren't making partner, period. I want to stay in lit. Clerkship seems necessary for government. In house lit jobs don't exist. Seriously don't know what else to do really?

Anything about that situation that might have contributed? My friends in the situation and school advisors insist this is unlikely but I don't think I could stomach working the same hours for half the pay at a small firm with no support.

Also should note I'm not THAT far into career. Would basically take place of my fourth year.

Is it true that clerkship is necessary for government? I think that clerkship would help you get prosecution-type of positions easier, but for other types of position, relevant work experience (and being at the right place at the right time) seems more important.

[Anonymous User]

I clerked with a co-clerk who was pretty much in your exact situation except that she was clerking in her home market (which is in a district that is as prestigious and probably more prestigious than NDCA, CACA, or SDCA). She was CCN, worked at a V100 for about 5 years, and, much like you, knew that she was not going to make partner so she left to clerk for a year. Her firm seemed happy she was going to clerk, but didn't say either way whether she could expect to have her seat kept warm for the year she was gone. Her feeling was that it was pretty much implied that she would not be returning, which to her was fine because she expected to land another biglaw job or a position at a lit. boutique or a good mid-size firm. In the end, she didn't like clerking all that much and, to make matters worse, she found it way more difficult than she had anticipated to line something up before she left. The problem was was that in the 5 years she was working in biglaw, she had little independent litigation experience -- so mid-size firms wouldn't hire her because she couldn't run her own cases. Although she did eventually find a job about 3 or 4 months after the clerkship ended, it was at a small firm (10-20 people), which was not her ideal choice. She's now making a ton less than she would have in biglaw and working (mostly, though not entirely) the same hours.

I'm not saying don't do it -- but I certainly would think it through. While employers may think clerking to be a credit to young attorneys just out or only 2-3 yrs out of law school, it seems a little late for you at this point in your career. You should be focusing on developing your current job or working on other employment prospects in your market, not taking a trip across the country to work for the year on some random district court (and yes, even NDCA is random if you intend to work in South Carolina). Anyways, if you really want to do this then do it. You should just be aware this is probably not the slam-dunk you think it is.

Fuck. This scares me. I'm about to take a clerkship exactly like this.

[Anonymous User]

I clerked with a co-clerk who was pretty much in your exact situation except that she was clerking in her home market (which is in a district that is as prestigious and probably more prestigious than NDCA, CACA, or SDCA).

The problem was was that in the 5 years she was working in biglaw, she had little independent litigation experience -- so mid-size firms wouldn't hire her because she couldn't run her own cases. Although she did eventually find a job about 3 or 4 months after the clerkship ended, it was at a small firm (10-20 people), which was not her ideal choice. She's now making a ton less than she would have in biglaw and working (mostly, though not entirely) the same hours.

A couple of things: Let's assume this person clerked in SDNY or DDC (the only districts that are even arguably more "prestigious" than NDCA or CDCA). Usually those clerks are going to get great jobs, although there will always be exceptions. And this case isn't even the exception--the small firm job she landed probably is a great job, just maybe not ideal for this person.

Also, this person's "problems" seem to be less about her clerkship and more about her spending 5 years in Biglaw without gaining any transferable skills. That can happen, but by year 5 a lot of Biglaw attorneys have transferable skills that, when coupled with an SDNY or NDCA clerkship, will open a lot of doors. And this person is likely to finally gain those skills working in a smaller shop. If she then wants to move back to Biglaw (or, more likely, Midlaw), she probably could do so in a couple years time.

Bottom line: This isn't a particularly scary story, its probably a bit of an outlier, and definitely is no reason to give up clerking in a desirable place if that's what you'd really like to do.