EDNY Forum

[legalese_retard]

How is a clerkship for a district judge in the EDNY viewed outside of New York in terms of future employment? I have no desire to live in New York, but I have an interview with one of the judges.

[Anonymous User]

Fairly prestigious but still quite a step down from SDNY. Might then depend a bit more on the judge as a result. Is it Weinstein or Gleeson? Gleeson put away Gotti as a prosecutor and is a sentencing reform crusader, Weinstein is a living legend, and both have sent clerks to SCOTUS. Beyond those two, there's definitely a wide spread of people to work for out there, not all of them good (but if you don't want to stay in NYC, that may not matter as much since wherever you're going might not know who the bad judges are). Don't feel comfortable saying more, even as anon, but do your research and get in touch with former clerks if at all possible.

[Anonymous User]

Meh, pretty much on par with D.NJ/NDNY/WDNY/D.Conn.

[VulcanVulcanVulcan]

Meh, pretty much on par with D.NJ/NDNY/WDNY/D.Conn.

I don't think anyone thinks EDNY is the same as NDNY and WDNY.

EDNY is probably on the same level as: S.D. Cal/D. Mass./D. Conn./D. N.J.

[Anonymous User]

How would it compare to C.D. Cal. / N.D. Cal. / N.D. Ill.?

[lacrossebrother]

why dont you guys just rank all of them?

[Anonymous User]

It's a well-regarded court, and I'd say much closer in prestige to SDNY than NDNY or WDNY.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything from Bianco EDNY '18-'19. Is he interviewing yet?

[78623089]

Has anyone heard anything from Bianco EDNY '18-'19. Is he interviewing yet?

curious about this as well

[jimmythecatdied6]

Tier 1: SDNY / DDC

Tier 2: D Mass / EDNY / EDVA / SD, ED, CD, and ND Cal / ND Ill

Tier 3: everywhere else

[Anonymous User]

Tier 1: SDNY / DDC

Tier 2: D Mass / EDNY / EDVA / SD, ED, CD, and ND Cal / ND Ill

Tier 3: everywhere else

As much as I hate to play this game, SD and ED Cal are perceived as less prestigious than CA and ND Cal, and for good reason.

SDNY and DDC are viewed positively everywhere. Still, D Mass is probably a better clerkship for someone who practices in Mass, and so on. So view EDNY as the second best district if you want to practice in New York. But if you want to practice in Oklahoma, D. OK is unquestionably a more valuable clerkship. Don't get hung up on ranking districts. Besides the experience derived from clerking (which you will get in any district), the value of a district court clerkship is your knowledge of the inner workings of the court that you practice before.

[78623089]

Has anyone heard anything from Bianco EDNY '18-'19. Is he interviewing yet?

curious about this as well

This was point of bump, not concerned about reputation of EDNY.

[jimmythecatdied6]

I am just screwing around.

And what is the "good reason" for distinguishing between SD Cal and ND Cal?

[Jchance]

ND Cal is one of the top 4 districts for patent lit. Otherwise, distinguish them based on location (e.g. family in LA/SF)

[Anonymous User]

I am just screwing around.

And what is the "good reason" for distinguishing between SD Cal and ND Cal?

The relative quality of the district judges and the AUSAs, Federal Defenders, and private attorneys who practice before them.

[Anonymous User]

How is a clerkship for a district judge in the EDNY viewed outside of New York in terms of future employment? I have no desire to live in New York, but I have an interview with one of the judges.

Good, of course. Obv this post is for posterity, but I have seen a lot of just dead wrong information on this post.

For starters, the traditional court "prestige" ranking generally looks like this:
Tier 1: SDNY, DDC, ND Cal
Tier 2: CD Cal, EDNY. ND Ill
Tier 3: other major coastal spots (Boston. Etc)
Tier 4: everything else

So an EDNY clerkship, like any other competitive clerkship, is going to get you in the door at virtually any traditional big law firm. But it's kinda a chicken-and-the-egg thing. To get an EDNY clerkship, you did very very well at one of the lower T14 schools or extraordinary at one of the lower T14s (usually, obv there are exceptions). So EDNY clerks are going to have been able to get jobs without the clerkship too. An EDNY clerk can probably get a great job in Denver, California, or Florida as easily as NY.

Where these top-court-vs-top-court distinctions matter most is for the tippy-top jobs: SCOTUS, DOJ Honors, US Attorney, Wachtell, etc... And guess what? Attorneys in those places, unsurprisingly, know the individual judges work. None of these jobs would prefer a random 2d Cir clerk to a Wilkinson or Pryor clerk. Even within the same circuit, the judge matters. A Sullivan clerk is going to have an easier time getting into SDNY USAO than most other 2d cir judges. Same reasoning goes for district judges.

Several of my YHS professors told me that the biggest mistake law students make is organizing the courts by prestige. "You want to work for a super smart judge who is young enough to help you in ten years."

Thats not to say the court doesn't matter *at all.* SDNY does lots of big commercial stuff, so going there will expose you to that docket. That exposure might help at certain boutiques, at USAO SDNY, and it will help you in interviews to enuciate why you want to do commercial lit. DDC does tons of admin, and EDNY lots of crim--so ditto to all of those. But, generally, the judge matters more than people think.

[Anonymous User]

How is a clerkship for a district judge in the EDNY viewed outside of New York in terms of future employment? I have no desire to live in New York, but I have an interview with one of the judges.

Where these top-court-vs-top-court distinctions matter most is for the tippy-top jobs: SCOTUS, DOJ Honors, US Attorney, Wachtell, etc... And guess what? Attorneys in those places, unsurprisingly, know the individual judges work. None of these jobs would prefer a random 2d Cir clerk to a Wilkinson or Pryor clerk.

This is not entirely correct with respect to DOJ or the USAOs. Because Main Justice attorneys litigate throughout the 94 districts, DOJ seeks a broad array of clerks --- not just those who have clerked in the most prestigious districts or for the most prestigious judges --- for its Honors program. That same logic influences USAO hiring decisions, to a certain degree. USAOs, however, are going to be more district specific. Obviously, if you want to be an AUSA in SDNY, clerking there is going to improve your odds. If you want to be an AUSA in SDTX, however, an SDNY clerkship isn't going to get you as far as one in that district (especially if you're litigating in a border district).

For these reasons, and more, it is an extreme overstatement to say that "[n]one of these jobs would prefer a random 2d Cir clerk to a Wilkinson or Pryor clerk," at least insofar as that statement applies to DOJ or USAO hiring. For instance, if you want to work for a USAO in the First Circuit, clerking on the First Circuit is going to give you more of an edge than clerking on the Fourth or Eleventh Circuits. That is why, despite incredibly steep competition, the appellate section for the USAO in D. Mass. is staffed largely by former First Circuit clerks. Likewise, if you're working for a USAO within the Fifth Circuit, clerking for one of the COA judges there is going to give you a leg up over those who clerked for others --- yes, even the former Wilkinson and Pryor clerks.

*Anonymous because current clerk

[Anonymous User]

How is a clerkship for a district judge in the EDNY viewed outside of New York in terms of future employment? I have no desire to live in New York, but I have an interview with one of the judges.

Where these top-court-vs-top-court distinctions matter most is for the tippy-top jobs: SCOTUS, DOJ Honors, US Attorney, Wachtell, etc... And guess what? Attorneys in those places, unsurprisingly, know the individual judges work. None of these jobs would prefer a random 2d Cir clerk to a Wilkinson or Pryor clerk.

This is not entirely correct with respect to DOJ or the USAOs. Because Main Justice attorneys litigate throughout the 94 districts, DOJ seeks a broad array of clerks --- not just those who have clerked in the most prestigious districts or for the most prestigious judges --- for its Honors program. That same logic influences USAO hiring decisions, to a certain degree. USAOs, however, are going to be more district specific. Obviously, if you want to be an AUSA in SDNY, clerking there is going to improve your odds. If you want to be an AUSA in SDTX, however, an SDNY clerkship isn't going to get you as far as one in that district (especially if you're litigating in a border district).

For these reasons, and more, it is an extreme overstatement to say that "[n]one of these jobs would prefer a random 2d Cir clerk to a Wilkinson or Pryor clerk," at least insofar as that statement applies to DOJ or USAO hiring. For instance, if you want to work for a USAO in the First Circuit, clerking on the First Circuit is going to give you more of an edge than clerking on the Fourth or Eleventh Circuits. That is why, despite incredibly steep competition, the appellate section for the USAO in D. Mass. is staffed largely by former First Circuit clerks. Likewise, if you're working for a USAO within the Fifth Circuit, clerking for one of the COA judges there is going to give you a leg up over those who clerked for others --- yes, even the former Wilkinson and Pryor clerks.

*Anonymous because current clerk

In my experience with DOJ hiring, the previous poster had it right. Geographic experience sometimes matters, particularly for tiny USAOs. In major USAOs (SDNY, ND Cal...) and Main Justice jobs, though, judge prestige matters more. A Wilkinson clerk will usually get the nod over a random Second Circuit clerk, and a SCOTUS clerk will usually get the nod over both. The current EDNY big kahunas are Rachel Kovner and Kiyo Matsumoto. Before his passing, Jack Weinstein would be on that list too.

[Anonymous User]

I think the above is correct, but that numbers-wise, there are many more USAOs where geographic ties matter more. They may not be the offices that most people here are targeting, of course (there are huge differences between, say, SDNY/CDCA/EDVA and WDOK/EDLA/ID).

[Anonymous User]

I think the above is correct, but that numbers-wise, there are many more USAOs where geographic ties matter more. They may not be the offices that most people here are targeting, of course (there are huge differences between, say, SDNY/CDCA/EDVA and WDOK/EDLA/ID).

I'm the poster you're replying to. I agree, most USAOs are small and geographic ties matter. On the other hand, more jobs are available in the big offices. SDNY hires more AUSAs than WDOK, to use your example. If your goal is to get any AUSA job, or an AUSA job in a major market, I would take the most prestigious clerkship you could find.

[Anonymous User]

I think “prestige” differences between district courts are overstated. SDNY and DDC are universally recognized. NDIL, NDCA, EDNY, EDVA, and CDCA are also well-recognized. Beyond that there's no point comparing like D Mass to ND Tex—it depends on the judge and where you want to practice, not which is “coastal.” And while major cities > more rural districts in general, a lot of small districts are also in extremely tie-sensitive markets, increasing the value of them for people with serious interests in practicing in their regions vs. larger cities.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, my problem with the prestige discussion is that it helps encourage law students to think there’s some kind of ranking like UNSWR for law schools. Is your judge a feeder? Are they otherwise super connected to a region/practice area that’s relevant to you? Those are the things to consider rather than the “prestige” of a clerkship. And a clerkship is still valuable regardless - some are just maybe a little more. But there isn’t some kind of clear ranking, and what helps most depends on what you want to do.

Clerking for EDNY is still going to be really beneficial even if you don’t want to work in NY. In part because clerkships are beneficial even if they’re not local, and in part because it is a big and well-recognized district. A clerkship local to where you want to work will also be beneficial. They’re just different experiences.

In an absolute vacuum, if you don’t have a specific market you’re targeting, sure, the few sort of “name brand” clerkships may make more sense. But not everyone has those as an option. Other clerkships are still pretty great to have.