Does it take as high of grades to get CAFC? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I have strong IP and IP lit credentials, but grades slightly below median at one of NPVN etc... Also, my best grade as in IP

Would clerking for the Fed Cir require as high of grades as everyone says you need for 3rd or 5th cir or whatever?

Do I have no shot as it stands? What if I pull up to median-ish or even slightly above median this year at school and apply for another year out? If still no chance, would I have a chance applying as an alumnus clerk after 1 year of biglaw?

[Anonymous User]

Yes. CAFC is one of the most selective COAs as I understand it.

I'm a former CFC clerk and every CAFC clerk I met or heard of had outstanding credentials.

[Anonymous User]

Yes. CAFC is one of the most selective COAs as I understand it.

I'm a former CFC clerk and every CAFC clerk I met or heard of had outstanding credentials.

this is hard to imagine... do people with no interest in patent law still clerk for CAFC? Because otherwise, I struggle to see where you could even find the requisite # of people that have top grades from a top school and a desirable tech background? I mean, my school has like ... 5 of us, of which like 2 have good grades... Or does CAFC not really care that much about tech background and interest in patent law?

Is this more significantly more competitive than say, D. Del, ND/CD Cal, ND Ill?

[Anonymous User]

Former CAFC clerk here. Overall, CAFC judges are not as grade-selective as judges in the regional circuits. It's not uncommon for a clerk without top grades (but with a technical degree and 2-4 years of patent litigation experience) to get hired as a clerk. Those types of hires almost always happen through a recommendation from someone connected to the judge, such as an ex-clerk partner who recommends an associate at the partner's firm. If you have all those things going for you--technical degree, patent litigation experience, and a connected recommender--then you can overcome mediocre grades with certain judges. Below median is pushing it, though.

Your post suggests that you are interested in clerking right out of school. There's basically no chance of that. Most CAFC judges only hire alumni. The CAFC judges who are willing to hire students are grade and school selective. Around median at NPVN isn't going to cut it.

[Anonymous User]

Former CAFC clerk here. Overall, CAFC judges are not as grade-selective as judges in the regional circuits. It's not uncommon for a clerk without top grades (but with a technical degree and 2-4 years of patent litigation experience) to get hired as a clerk. Those types of hires almost always happen through a recommendation from someone connected to the judge, such as an ex-clerk partner who recommends an associate at the partner's firm. If you have all those things going for you--technical degree, patent litigation experience, and a connected recommender--then you can overcome mediocre grades with certain judges. Below median is pushing it, though.

Your post suggests that you are interested in clerking right out of school. There's basically no chance of that. Most CAFC judges only hire alumni. The CAFC judges who are willing to hire students are grade and school selective. Around median at NPVN isn't going to cut it.

Thank you very much for this perspective. A few questions if you don't mind?

So they generally look for at least 2 years? I was really only hoping for straight out or with 1 year experience because after that point, it seems like the financial loss by clerking gets pretty large, whereas the loss isn't quite as much versus a 1st year's salary, not to mention most people I've talked to say that the value of clerking diminishes the longer you practice.

Do you have a sense of the competitiveness of CAFC compares to the patent heavy district courts?

Finally, do they like to see the same sorts of classes that everyone says standard Federal judges look for, ie Federal Courts etc? Or are patent classes and patent expertise more important?

[Anonymous User]

Former CAFC clerk again. I'll try to answer your questions.

So they generally look for at least 2 years? I was really only hoping for straight out or with 1 year experience because after that point,

I don't know if most judges generally look for at least two years. I can say, however, that the majority of clerks had two years or more of patent litigation experience. It's certainly possible to get hired with one year (or less) of experience, but then your grades are going to matter more, and your grades don't sound particularly strong.

Do you have a sense of the competitiveness of CAFC compares to the patent heavy district courts?

I think the threshold credentials are fairly similar, though the district court judges generally seem more willing to hire students.

Finally, do they like to see the same sorts of classes that everyone says standard Federal judges look for, ie Federal Courts etc? Or are patent classes and patent expertise more important?

I think patent classes and expertise are more important, particularity if your patent professor is friends with one of the CAFC judges. Irrespective of whether the judges look for Federal Courts on your transcript, you should take the class. During my clerkship, questions involving justiciability and jurisdiction popped up frequently. Oh, and take Admin Law as well. With the possible exception of CADC, the CAFC sees more admin law cases than any other circuit.

[Anonymous User]

Former CAFC clerk again. I'll try to answer your questions.

So they generally look for at least 2 years? I was really only hoping for straight out or with 1 year experience because after that point,

I don't know if most judges generally look for at least two years. I can say, however, that the majority of clerks had two years or more of patent litigation experience. It's certainly possible to get hired with one year (or less) of experience, but then your grades are going to matter more, and your grades don't sound particularly strong.

Do you have a sense of the competitiveness of CAFC compares to the patent heavy district courts?

I think the threshold credentials are fairly similar, though the district court judges generally seem more willing to hire students.

Finally, do they like to see the same sorts of classes that everyone says standard Federal judges look for, ie Federal Courts etc? Or are patent classes and patent expertise more important?

I think patent classes and expertise are more important, particularity if your patent professor is friends with one of the CAFC judges. Irrespective of whether the judges look for Federal Courts on your transcript, you should take the class. During my clerkship, questions involving justiciability and jurisdiction popped up frequently. Oh, and take Admin Law as well. With the possible exception of CADC, the CAFC sees more admin law cases than any other circuit.

Thank you so much for the detailed and insightful responses! It is very helpful!

[Anonymous User]

I will be clerking for CAFC. Won't give more detail. To address your various questions:

I don't think CAFC is as grade-selective as other COAs, but it seems on par with many DCts. I have no idea what you meant by NPVN, but if you meant MVP (or lower T14), then based on my grades at a higher ranked T14, I would say top 1/3 is prerequisite absent a fantastic connection. CAFC does sometimes hire straight out of law school, but sometimes give offers for a start date a year or more after the interview, so be flexible and willing to work or clerk elsewhere first. I second the poster who said a glowing recommendation by an IP professor or partner from work will get you far, as will a technical background. As for courses, of course you should take patent-related courses to forge connections with professors who can write convincing and relevant recommendations.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

I will be clerking for CAFC. Won't give more detail. To address your various questions:

I don't think CAFC is as grade-selective as other COAs, but it seems on par with many DCts. I have no idea what you meant by NPVN, but if you meant MVP (or lower T14), then based on my grades at a higher ranked T14, I would say top 1/3 is prerequisite absent a fantastic connection. CAFC does sometimes hire straight out of law school, but sometimes give offers for a start date a year or more after the interview, so be flexible and willing to work or clerk elsewhere first. I second the poster who said a glowing recommendation by an IP professor or partner from work will get you far, as will a technical background. As for courses, of course you should take patent-related courses to forge connections with professors who can write convincing and relevant recommendations.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Would top 1/3 plus a d. ct. clerkship in a patent-heavy district put you in contention for non-Dyk clerkship positions?

[TFALAWL]

Sorry to piggy-back on this. But I'm roughly top 1/4 at MVP, and am working on a note in TM law, which is a robust practice group in the satellite of the v20 I'm working at. Therefore, suppose I get 2-3 years experience w/ soft IP, and manage to get my note published. Would that be helpful? or do CAFC judges only care about patent + b.s. degree?

[jarofsoup]

Yes. CAFC is one of the most selective COAs as I understand it.

I'm a former CFC clerk and every CAFC clerk I met or heard of had outstanding credentials.

this is hard to imagine... do people with no interest in patent law still clerk for CAFC? Because otherwise, I struggle to see where you could even find the requisite # of people that have top grades from a top school and a desirable tech background? I mean, my school has like ... 5 of us, of which like 2 have good grades... Or does CAFC not really care that much about tech background and interest in patent law?

Is this more significantly more competitive than say, D. Del, ND/CD Cal, ND Ill?

Lots of people who are in the Government Contracts field go for it.

[Anonymous User]

I will be clerking for CAFC. Won't give more detail. To address your various questions:

I don't think CAFC is as grade-selective as other COAs, but it seems on par with many DCts. I have no idea what you meant by NPVN, but if you meant MVP (or lower T14), then based on my grades at a higher ranked T14, I would say top 1/3 is prerequisite absent a fantastic connection. CAFC does sometimes hire straight out of law school, but sometimes give offers for a start date a year or more after the interview, so be flexible and willing to work or clerk elsewhere first. I second the poster who said a glowing recommendation by an IP professor or partner from work will get you far, as will a technical background. As for courses, of course you should take patent-related courses to forge connections with professors who can write convincing and relevant recommendations.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Would top 1/3 plus a d. ct. clerkship in a patent-heavy district put you in contention for non-Dyk clerkship positions?

Top 1/3 from which school (approximately)? Any other demonstrated interest in patent law (Ph.D, work experience)?

[Anonymous User]

I will be clerking for CAFC. Won't give more detail. To address your various questions:

I don't think CAFC is as grade-selective as other COAs, but it seems on par with many DCts. I have no idea what you meant by NPVN, but if you meant MVP (or lower T14), then based on my grades at a higher ranked T14, I would say top 1/3 is prerequisite absent a fantastic connection. CAFC does sometimes hire straight out of law school, but sometimes give offers for a start date a year or more after the interview, so be flexible and willing to work or clerk elsewhere first. I second the poster who said a glowing recommendation by an IP professor or partner from work will get you far, as will a technical background. As for courses, of course you should take patent-related courses to forge connections with professors who can write convincing and relevant recommendations.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Would top 1/3 plus a d. ct. clerkship in a patent-heavy district put you in contention for non-Dyk clerkship positions?

Top 1/3 from which school (approximately)? Any other demonstrated interest in patent law (Ph.D, work experience)?

MVP. Assume 2.5 years of biglaw patent litigation experience. No Ph.D. Only a BS in computer engineering.

[Anonymous User]

That's on the cusp, but you probably would get a look in some chambers. I'm not sure how much of a bump a dist. ct. clerkship gives. We don't see that many applicants from dist. cts, but certainly it will be a positive.

[Anonymous User]

That's on the cusp, but you probably would get a look in some chambers. I'm not sure how much of a bump a dist. ct. clerkship gives. We don't see that many applicants from dist. cts, but certainly it will be a positive.

Not the anonymous poster above, but in a similar position except my undergrad grades are not very good. I'll be clerking in a patent heavy district court. How important are undergrad grades to chambers? Thanks.