unspoken rule on term law clerk vacation? Forum

[objctnyrhnr]

Hi, I acknowledge that this is a good problem to have (simply because I have the job and I am amped about it), but I am still curious about what to do.

I got my clerkship late and was originally told that I would have to start right after the bar. As a result, I indefinitely postponed a trip I had planned for a decent fee (I also paid the fees of my two friends as they did not want to do it without me). The whole trip is about a week and a half, but will result in some serious jet lag. The company kept the money, of course.

I am inclined to think that this is NOT a trip that I could take using my vacation days during the term of the clerkship (in which case I probably would need to do it afterwards, but before the next position somehow) due to the prestige of the position and what i presume to be the importance of the clerks to the judge. Am I correct in supposing this?

In general, how much vacation do clerks typically use, and how long are individual vacations during the clerkship really allowed to be before potential positive sentiments about the clerk begin to be sacrificed?

[Anonymous User]

Totally depends on the judge. My judge generally wants us there when he's there, but we have latitude to take some time off if things are slow and we are current on work. I have probably taken about 10 days off in addition to federal holidays, but I don't think the judge would have been OK about taking 2 consecutive weeks off (or any comparable length of time, with the possible exception of December 24-Jan 1).

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, this is entirely at the judge's discretion - even if you get put on the federal leave act (which is up to your judge), whether you can take any of the time you accrue is up to the judge. (If you don't take it during the year you get it back in cash when you leave.) For one judge, I took about 5 days for interviews (individually, not in a row) and a couple for travel (to add on to a long weekend). Between Christmas and New Year's the judge let me telecommute so I could travel before Xmas and after New Year's, rather than have to come back in between (I was clerking away from my "home" city).

The other judge I clerked for made it part of my offer that I could take a week vacation sometime during the term. But he wasn't federal. I think getting more than a week in a row would be very difficult, barring giving birth or illness. (I know of a federal judge who required his clerks to agree to get all their doctors' and dentists' appointments taken care of before the term started, and they worked on Saturdays.)

[objctnyrhnr]

Okay, this has been really helpful, and has been in line with what I was thinking.

Related question--how "firm" is the end date, assuming it's supposed to be about a year from when you started? For example, could you take a week or more of vacation off of the end of your term, telling the judge in advance, thereby ending the term early but hoping that the judge just hires the next clerk to begin earlier? Or is this kind of unacceptable as well?

[foundingfather]

why do I feel like this is for Burning Man

[Anonymous User]

End dates are pretty flexible - you usually coordinate them with your successor. You might be able to arrange a week off at the end, but I don't think you'd get paid for any time your successor is there.

[objctnyrhnr]

hahahaha not for burning man. just for a bar trip/tour on the other side of the world that I booked before I thought getting an interview for this position was even a possibility.

Anon, when you say end dates are flexible, do you mean like I could potentially start at the end of august and end at the beginning of aug the following year? I was not sure if there was some sort of 1-year rule, or if it was just standard practice.

Is it common for judges to discuss exact end dates in the same conversation as they discuss exact start dates, immediately following the offer? Or is it more like something that will be discussed at some later date?

[Anonymous User]

This is wholly up to your judge's discretion. Given your circumstances (i.e., getting an offer shortly before beginning) I don't think there's anything wrong with asking about whether you can take the trip. The judge will fully understand why you want to go on a trip after taking the bar. But he/she will also be perfectly reasonable to say no and ask that you start and cancel your trip.

W/r/t leave in general: totally depends on the judge. I'm on my 2nd clerkship and the judges differ quite a bit. I was on the Leave Act during my prior clerkship and the judge was very strict about using PTO. But she was fine with me making up time taken off by working extra hours and on the weekends. My current judge DGAF when we take time off as long as it doesn't affect our workload. He doesn't micromanage and just expects us to get our work done on time. Of course, this doesn't mean we can just take a week off without any notice. Any time we take off that is more than a couple of days requires at least a few weeks' notice, but that's really for the benefit of the rest of the chambers, not necessarily the judge.

[rpupkin]

Everything you're asking about is up to the discretion of your judge. No, there is no general "rule" concerning vacation days or start/end dates that judges follow. At the court I clerked at, there was a judge who did not permit his clerks to take a single vacation day during the one-year term. Clerks got weekends and federal holidays off (assuming they were caught up on work), but they could not take vacation. Another judge at the court was liberal with vacation; one of her clerks was permitted to take two weeks off for a honeymoon. My judge was somewhere in-between. Really, you're going to have to work this out with your judge.

If you want more information before broaching the topic with your judge, ask one of the judge's former clerks (or a current clerk who has worked there awhile) about how the judge manages vacations and end dates.

[objctnyrhnr]

Everything you're asking about is up to the discretion of your judge. No, there is no general "rule" concerning vacation days or start/end dates that judges follow. At the court I clerked at, there was a judge who did not permit his clerks to take a single vacation day during the one-year term. Clerks got weekends and federal holidays off (assuming they were caught up on work), but they could not take vacation. Another judge at the court was liberal with vacation; one of her clerks was permitted to take two weeks off for a honeymoon. My judge was somewhere in-between. Really, you're going to have to work this out with your judge.

If you want more information before broaching the topic with your judge, ask one of the judge's former clerks (or a current clerk who has worked there awhile) about how the judge manages vacations and end dates.

I appreciate your frankness. I would actually rather not ask questions about it than be the guy who asks about vacation as soon as he gets an offer. I think I will assume that it will not be possible to take the trip during the position and I will try to work out my start/end dates so that I can take it on either side.

Thank you everybody for your help.