Have a COA a year after grad...worth it to add SDNY 1st yr? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hey all,

So I have a (non-feeder, non-2/9/DC) COA clerkship lined up for a year out from graduation, but just found out I have a decent shot at getting an SDNY clerkship for my first year after graduation. I'm like $140,000 in debt, so getting a second clerkship and foregoing a fair amount of money seems pretty risky. I am currently spending my summer at a V5 that generally gives 100% offers, so I feel pretty secure about that job, and the financial sacrifice will obviously be pretty substantial.

My question is, would doing a clerkship for a reasonably well-respected, active SDNY judge before my COA clerkship help me? I am not sure whether or not I want to try to be a prosecutor, but I would love the chance to work for a top litigation shop. Wondering if the foregone salary is worth the risk that I won't stick in biglaw. Around top 10% at a CCN if it affects anything.

Thanks!

EDIT: I know this is almost entirely subjective, but I'm still wondering what people think in general. It's a hard thing to even think about so opinions would be helpful.

[OutCold]

Depends on your goals. If, for instance, you were looking to move to the SDNY USAO at some point, the clerkship would be tremendously valuable.

In any case, I tend to take the viewpoint that a stellar credential like SDNY clerkship is worth foregoing whatever income differential you'll lose for a year. It's something you'll have on your resume for life, and this clerkship in particular builds connections in the geographical area you are working.

[Anonymous User]

Depends on your goals. If, for instance, you were looking to move to the SDNY USAO at some point, the clerkship would be tremendously valuable.

In any case, I tend to take the viewpoint that a stellar credential like SDNY clerkship is worth foregoing whatever income differential you'll lose for a year. It's something you'll have on your resume for life, and this clerkship in particular builds connections in the geographical area you are working.

Thanks. Unfortunately pretty uncertain about career goals now.

Anyone else have an opinion even without that? Pretty time sensitive stuff

[FSK]

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[Anonymous User]

I would love the chance to work for a top litigation shop

If this is your goal, two clerkship is obviously your best shot. Real questions you should be asking is the extra money (50k+) you're foregoing with the increased shot at a top lit boutique?

Honestly hard to know whether I'd even have a shot at those at around 10% at CCN in the first place, so my calculations are pretty opaque. Is the benefit of adding the second clerkship really only going to be a major plus for a firm like those and USAO?

Basically would be putting off an extra year of real loan repayment, and it seems like years clerking cuts into (rather than pushes off) typical big law years, right?

[OutCold]

Basically would be putting off an extra year of real loan repayment, and it seems like years clerking cuts into (rather than pushes off) typical big law years, right?

I don't buy that argument. If your goal is partner, you are going to make more than enough over the chase anyway. If you assume you are like the average person and will burn out after 3 years of biglaw, you aren't cutting into your income by clerking because you are still going to be there the same number of years. If your firm maintains your class year, you would actually make more in your three years.

But all that is just my perspective. If this were any other district, I would probably tell you to just do your COA clerkship, but I really do think SDNY adds value, especially if you are going to be practicing in NY.

[FSK]

Honestly hard to know whether I'd even have a shot at those at around 10% at CCN in the first place, so my calculations are pretty opaque.

I took a quick look through Susman NY's listing, and a few of their associatings have SDNY + Ohter COA (many CA2, but some not) + magna level grades at a T14. Seems in your ballpark...

[Anonymous User]

You don't sound super-interested in clerking on a district court for its own sake, and unless you want to build connections for SDNY USAO, I think doing the clerkship would be pretty empty credential padding. There's not so many COA clerks applying to litigation boutiques that CCN + V5 + 4th Circuit isn't going to get pulled out of the pile, and at that point they can see your grades instead of using clerkship as a proxy. At most you might get a slight bump over someone with no district court experience at all.

You should be in contention for a number of litigation boutiques with top 10% at CCN. Probably not Bartlit Beck or Kellogg Huber, or some of the appellate shops like Robbins Russel or Bancroft (although they're worth the application), but outside of those you're in play. Don't overlook boutique-y larger firms like W&C or Munger. These places don't hire a ton of people, so a lot is going to come down to fit and extracurricular activities like moot court, LR, etc.

[Anonymous User]

You don't sound super-interested in clerking on a district court for its own sake, and unless you want to build connections for SDNY USAO, I think doing the clerkship would be pretty empty credential padding. There's not so many COA clerks applying to litigation boutiques that CCN + V5 + 4th Circuit isn't going to get pulled out of the pile, and at that point they can see your grades instead of using clerkship as a proxy. At most you might get a slight bump over someone with no district court experience at all.

You should be in contention for a number of litigation boutiques with top 10% at CCN. Probably not Bartlit Beck or Kellogg Huber, or some of the appellate shops like Robbins Russel or Bancroft (although they're worth the application), but outside of those you're in play. Don't overlook boutique-y larger firms like W&C or Munger. These places don't hire a ton of people, so a lot is going to come down to fit and extracurricular activities like moot court, LR, etc.

Thank you. This seems to be the most in line with my thinking prior to posting all this, but it's still an impossibly difficult task to weigh all the costs and benefits, especially given how uncertain and variable those benefits are.

Any more opinions, no matter how subjective, are greatly appreciated!

[Anonymous User]

You don't sound super-interested in clerking on a district court for its own sake, and unless you want to build connections for SDNY USAO, I think doing the clerkship would be pretty empty credential padding. There's not so many COA clerks applying to litigation boutiques that CCN + V5 + 4th Circuit isn't going to get pulled out of the pile, and at that point they can see your grades instead of using clerkship as a proxy. At most you might get a slight bump over someone with no district court experience at all.

You should be in contention for a number of litigation boutiques with top 10% at CCN. Probably not Bartlit Beck or Kellogg Huber, or some of the appellate shops like Robbins Russel or Bancroft (although they're worth the application), but outside of those you're in play. Don't overlook boutique-y larger firms like W&C or Munger. These places don't hire a ton of people, so a lot is going to come down to fit and extracurricular activities like moot court, LR, etc.

Thank you. This seems to be the most in line with my thinking prior to posting all this, but it's still an impossibly difficult task to weigh all the costs and benefits, especially given how uncertain and variable those benefits are.

Any more opinions, no matter how subjective, are greatly appreciated!

The natural reaction of law students to uncertainty is credential seeking. But you can't add two equivalent credentials together and get more than one alone. I was in a very similar position, and got a job with a litigation boutique. I don't think SDNY/DDC/EDVA would've gotten my app pulled at places I didn't get an interview. A feeder or semi-feeder might have, if I had the grades to back that up. Also, don't ignore the value of having real firm war stories to tell at interviews.

[Anonymous User]

You don't sound super-interested in clerking on a district court for its own sake, and unless you want to build connections for SDNY USAO, I think doing the clerkship would be pretty empty credential padding. There's not so many COA clerks applying to litigation boutiques that CCN + V5 + 4th Circuit isn't going to get pulled out of the pile, and at that point they can see your grades instead of using clerkship as a proxy. At most you might get a slight bump over someone with no district court experience at all.

You should be in contention for a number of litigation boutiques with top 10% at CCN. Probably not Bartlit Beck or Kellogg Huber, or some of the appellate shops like Robbins Russel or Bancroft (although they're worth the application), but outside of those you're in play. Don't overlook boutique-y larger firms like W&C or Munger. These places don't hire a ton of people, so a lot is going to come down to fit and extracurricular activities like moot court, LR, etc.

Thank you. This seems to be the most in line with my thinking prior to posting all this, but it's still an impossibly difficult task to weigh all the costs and benefits, especially given how uncertain and variable those benefits are.

Any more opinions, no matter how subjective, are greatly appreciated!

The natural reaction of law students to uncertainty is credential seeking. But you can't add two equivalent credentials together and get more than one alone. I was in a very similar position, and got a job with a litigation boutique. I don't think SDNY/DDC/EDVA would've gotten my app pulled at places I didn't get an interview. A feeder or semi-feeder might have, if I had the grades to back that up. Also, don't ignore the value of having real firm war stories to tell at interviews.

The bold sounds exactly right. Rest makes sense too. Thanks!

[Shaggier1]

I think doing the clerkship would be pretty empty credential padding

The above seems to give the immense educational value of a district court clerkship (not to mention one in one of the country's busiest and most exciting districts) extremely short shrift. And that is to say nothing of the connections you can make during that year.

You have to compare this to the experience of a year in big law (assuming that is where OP would otherwise spend the year). The clerkship will be infinitely more substantive, and very likely more rewarding.

[NYSprague]

I'm in corporate and even I know the names of the SDNY judges. They are all pretty well respected.

[OutCold]

I think doing the clerkship would be pretty empty credential padding

The above seems to give the immense educational value of a district court clerkship (not to mention one in one of the country's busiest and most exciting districts) extremely short shrift. And that is to say nothing of the connections you can make during that year.

You have to compare this to the experience of a year in big law (assuming that is where OP would otherwise spend the year). The clerkship will be infinitely more substantive, and very likely more rewarding.

This

[rpupkin]

OP: I would do the SDNY clerkship if I were you, but I'll mention a consideration that weighs against it.

I did a COA clerkship right out of school, and part of me wishes I had done a year at a firm first. I think there is some value in knowing how well you stand up to the stresses of big law. The 10 weeks (or whatever) you spend as a summer associate just doesn't give you a sense for the difficulties of firm life. I could have gone straight to a government job right out of my clerkship, but elected to go to big law instead. If I had spent one year at a firm before the clerkship, I may have said: "I know I can't stand this; there's no way I'm coming back after my clerkship."

Others may point out that you can always apply for government jobs later; people lateral from biglaw to bigfed all the time. I think you'll find, though, that there are certain government positions that are easier to get when coming directly off of a clerkship. Again, I think you should do the SDNY clerkship, but there is real value in knowing for sure that you want (or don't want) big law once your clerkship is over. And I think it's hard to acquire that certainty without working as an associate first.