Interviewing/Applying/What Am I Doing Wrong? Forum

[Anonymous User]

A bit of background: I'm at a top-20 school, ed board for law review, but have a slightly sub-par GPA for federal circuit clerkships. That being said, I have been fortunate--I have done three judicial clerkship interviews--two with federal circuit judges and one with a state supreme court justice. Two of the judges hired someone else, the other judge still is considering my application (although its been a couple months since my interview so I've pretty much given up hope on that).

Both judges that have decided not to hire me have personally called me and told me the (bad) news but also told me they were very impressed with my credentials and enjoyed meeting me and offered to help me with my judicial clerkship hunt. Both have called other judges on their respective courts and recommended me.

I'm just wondering if anyone has had similar experiences. If so, what did you do at this point? I feel that my chances for a federal circuit clerkship are pretty much zero right now with most of the federal circuit judges finishing hiring. But if I am lucky enough to get another interview, what would you suggest that you did differently (assuming you were in the same boat as me)?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Did the judges give you any idea why they chose the other candidates over you? It may be something completely out of your control, like they just got along with the other candidates better, or the other candidates had someone calling chambers to vouch for them, or they had work experience that you didn't have. If the judges who didn't hire you are recommending you to other judges, it sounds to me like you did really well and it's just the luck of the draw. There may be something you need to do differently, but from what you've said there's no real way to tell what it is.

[bk1]

You might be fucking up your interviews, but more likely you're just a victim of the fact that clerkship hiring is very idiosyncratic. Judges are looking at a small number of people to fill a small number of spots and will almost never have to give more offers than they have spots. When you are dealing with situations like that, variability tends to increase. This is very different from firm hiring which is a lot more predictable since the number of spots is far greater and there tends to be overlap in offers since most firms give it a decent number more offers than they have spots.

Even if you were fucking up your interviews, we wouldn't know since none of us have been in the room with you. More to the point, I've seen people with around double digit clerkship interviews strike out; you've only had 3 interviews. Are your odds of a circuit clerkship for 15-16 low? Sure. But that's not the end of the world. There are plenty of district court clerkships that you still have a shot at and, considering your stats, you likely have a firm you SAed at (or will SA at) that you can go back to. Plenty of people with your stats strike out of clerkships. Just because you are at the top of your class does not mean that a clerkship, especially a circuit clerkship, is anywhere near a foregone conclusion.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with the others that it's just the luck of the draw. I had a similar experience where a judge called me to tell me that he was very impressed but decided to go with another candidate. I kept in touch with him by sending him a Christmas card that year. The next spring, he called me and said he wanted to offer me a job before opening it up on OSCAR. Definitely try to keep in touch with the judges who called you, and just keep plugging away.

[Anonymous User]

I had seven interviews last cycle and didn't get hired until after my seventh. Similar stats to yours -- higher-ranked school (lower T14) but probably lower GPA, too. Given that the judges called you personally (that never happened to me), I doubt you're doing anything wrong -- it may just be that they find other candidates they feel the need make an offer to first. It sucks, but the advice you've been given so far is good. Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

I had seven interviews last cycle and didn't get hired until after my seventh. Similar stats to yours -- higher-ranked school (lower T14) but probably lower GPA, too. Given that the judges called you personally (that never happened to me), I doubt you're doing anything wrong -- it may just be that they find other candidates they feel the need make an offer to first. It sucks, but the advice you've been given so far is good. Good luck!

I also had seven interviews last year. As I was walking into interview #7 after six failed interviews, I definitely had the feeling that I must be doing something wrong and that the whole thing was futile. But, much to my surprise, the seventh judge hired me, and in retrospect I think that out of all the judges I met with, the seventh judge's personality/working style was clearly the best fit for what I'm looking for in a clerkship. So don't give up.

One of the judges had called in nineteen candidates for two clerkship openings. Two other judges had called in seven candidates for two openings. I didn't ask the rest, but presumably other judges must have interviewed similar numbers. With that many interviewees it is inevitable that even people who interview well will often get rejected.

I agree that it's a positive sign that the judges called. "Very impressed with your credentials, enjoyed meeting you" is a meaningless platitude that they could say about almost any applicant, but calling you directly and recommending you to other judges on their court is not at all the norm.

Even if you miss out on this round of hiring for federal clerkships, keep in mind that last-minute federal clerkship openings are more frequent than you might think, state supreme courts often hire later in the year, and many judges love to get applications from people with experience. There can be advantages to doing a clerkship after a few years of practice.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with the others that it's just the luck of the draw. I had a similar experience where a judge called me to tell me that he was very impressed but decided to go with another candidate. I kept in touch with him by sending him a Christmas card that year. The next spring, he called me and said he wanted to offer me a job before opening it up on OSCAR. Definitely try to keep in touch with the judges who called you, and just keep plugging away.

I fully agree that keeping in touch is a good idea.

Anecdote: I interviewed with a judge and a firm in one week. The judge rejected me about a week before I got the offer from the firm, where I am now. In the interim, the judge offered to pass on my resume for the new judges poised to begin this summer, and I told him I would appreciate that, thanks very much, etc. Apparently I seemed genuinely very nice to the judge and his chambers. (As an aside, be nice to everyone, ESPECIALLY JA's. Most of them are lifers, are very close to the judges they work for, and their opinion truly matters. I know of a JA who got to veto the judge's #1 pick because he was rude to her on the phone.)

Turns out the judge meant it. I just got an email from a new judge that more or less said "I need someone ASAP, other judge and his chambers told me I should hire you, can you come in ASAP so we can talk about it?"

[Anonymous User]

The fact that they called you and offered to recommend you is certainly promising. I doubt you actually did anything "wrong." For comparison, I received a rejection e-mail 30 minutes after one interview with a district judge that went particularly poorly.

[Anonymous User]

The fact that they called you and offered to recommend you is certainly promising. I doubt you actually did anything "wrong." For comparison, I received a rejection e-mail 30 minutes after one interview with a district judge that went particularly poorly.

Yeah, the judge was really nice and genuine about it. It was the only time where I didn't feel like total poop about a rejection for a job I really wanted. The judge said I just barely got edged out (on a 3-2 vote with his chambers) because the person who got it had a couple of years' experience more than I do.

[Anonymous User]

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