Can I owe *them* money? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I know that you are not supposed to accept money from a firm in consideration of a clerkship beforehand, but are you allowed to owe a firm money when you begin a clerkship?

I recently accepted an offer to begin an off-cycle clerkship 8 months after starting work at my firm. They gave me a 15K advance that I agreed to pay back on a pro-rata basis if I leave before 12 months, so I would owe them roughly 6K.

Someone at the firm suggested I could set up a payment plan, but I am not entirely comfortable owing money to a law firm while serving as a law clerk. Does anyone know of any rules that explicitly prohibit it?

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

I know that you are not supposed to accept money from a firm in consideration of a clerkship beforehand, but are you allowed to owe a firm money when you begin a clerkship?

I recently accepted an offer to begin an off-cycle clerkship 8 months after starting work at my firm. They gave me a 15K advance that I agreed to pay back on a pro-rata basis if I leave before 12 months, so I would owe them roughly 6K.

Someone at the firm suggested I could set up a payment plan, but I am not entirely comfortable owing money to a law firm while serving as a law clerk. Does anyone know of any rules that explicitly prohibit it?

Thanks!

I don't have time to link a specific Judicial Ethics Code section, but rule of thumb is ask your judge and do exactly what they say.

[whut]

Does your state have an ethics hotline to call? Most do if you look into it. I'd just do whatever they say.

[ClerkAdvisor]

Does your state have an ethics hotline to call? Most do if you look into it. I'd just do whatever they say.

No, this is not a bar issue. This is a federal courts judicial law clerk ethics issue. OP needs (a) to ask their judge and (b) to read the federal judicial law clerk ethics guide. A state bar hotline is not going to be able to advise you about an employer's ethics guidelines.

[whut]

Does your state have an ethics hotline to call? Most do if you look into it. I'd just do whatever they say.

No, this is not a bar issue. This is a federal courts judicial law clerk ethics issue. OP needs (a) to ask their judge and (b) to read the federal judicial law clerk ethics guide. A state bar hotline is not going to be able to advise you about an employer's ethics guidelines.

Do you even know what an ethics hotline is or how it works?

And yes, wow, yes it is a bar issue. A character and fitness issue to be exact. (wow)

[ClerkAdvisor]

Does your state have an ethics hotline to call? Most do if you look into it. I'd just do whatever they say.

No, this is not a bar issue. This is a federal courts judicial law clerk ethics issue. OP needs (a) to ask their judge and (b) to read the federal judicial law clerk ethics guide. A state bar hotline is not going to be able to advise you about an employer's ethics guidelines.

Do you even know what an ethics hotline is or how it works?

And yes, wow, yes it is a bar issue. A character and fitness issue to be exact. (wow)

Are you a clerk? Whether or not a clerk can be in debt to a law firm is an issue for their employer, the Government, to resolve. A bar ethics hotline will tell you to follow the Courts policy...

[whut]

Does your state have an ethics hotline to call? Most do if you look into it. I'd just do whatever they say.

No, this is not a bar issue. This is a federal courts judicial law clerk ethics issue. OP needs (a) to ask their judge and (b) to read the federal judicial law clerk ethics guide. A state bar hotline is not going to be able to advise you about an employer's ethics guidelines.

Do you even know what an ethics hotline is or how it works?

And yes, wow, yes it is a bar issue. A character and fitness issue to be exact. (wow)

Are you a clerk? Whether or not a clerk can be in debt to a law firm is an issue for their employer, the Government, to resolve. A bar ethics hotline will tell you to follow the Courts policy...

I refer you to my previous post

[IAFG]

considering that people start clerking while owing their firm all the time and firms have an incentive to stop you from making ethics violations i'm gonna guess this is NBD.

[forza]

No, this is not a bar issue. This is a federal courts judicial law clerk ethics issue. OP needs (a) to ask their judge and (b) to read the federal judicial law clerk ethics guide. A state bar hotline is not going to be able to advise you about an employer's ethics guidelines.

Do you even know what an ethics hotline is or how it works?

And yes, wow, yes it is a bar issue. A character and fitness issue to be exact. (wow)

Are you a clerk? Whether or not a clerk can be in debt to a law firm is an issue for their employer, the Government, to resolve. A bar ethics hotline will tell you to follow the Courts policy...

I refer you to my previous post

Which was totally dense, inaccurate, and unhelpful.

[Danger Zone]

Does your state have an ethics hotline to call? Most do if you look into it. I'd just do whatever they say.

No, this is not a bar issue. This is a federal courts judicial law clerk ethics issue. OP needs (a) to ask their judge and (b) to read the federal judicial law clerk ethics guide. A state bar hotline is not going to be able to advise you about an employer's ethics guidelines.

Do you even know what an ethics hotline is or how it works?

And yes, wow, yes it is a bar issue. A character and fitness issue to be exact. (wow)

Oh cool, now you're shitting up the on-topics too.

[bk1]

Whut is banned. No need to engage him.

[Anonymous User]

Current clerk here. My guess is no, but there's nothing exactly on point -- you should definitely ask your judge. Advisory Opinion 83 is somewhat relevant, but that deals with salary advances provided by your future firm -- it sounds like you won't be returning to this firm post-clerkship. So the situation may be a little different. Your judge can ask the local ethics rep or the ethics committee for further guidance. (I think you can submit an inquiry too, but that might be a little weird if you haven't started already.)

For good measure, here's the link to the Advisory Opinion:

http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/RulesA ... B-Ch02.pdf

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous User]

Current clerk here. My guess is no, but there's nothing exactly on point -- you should definitely ask your judge. Advisory Opinion 83 is somewhat relevant, but that deals with salary advances provided by your future firm -- it sounds like you won't be returning to this firm post-clerkship. So the situation may be a little different. Your judge can ask the local ethics rep or the ethics committee for further guidance. (I think you can submit an inquiry too, but that might be a little weird if you haven't started already.)

For good measure, here's the link to the Advisory Opinion:

http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/RulesA ... B-Ch02.pdf

Hope this helps.

Thanks for this thorough and helpful response!