Let's Talk 2d Circuit! (2015-16 & beyond) Forum

[futurehorse]

Slim pickings but worth a thread maybe?

Circuit Judges
Katzmann (chief): DONE, hiring for '16 & '17 per OSCAR

Jacobs: DONE through '16, has hired at least one for '16-'17
Cabranes: ? (OSCAR lists him as accepting apps but he hasn't updated since 2013)
Pooler: DONE through '16 per OSCAR, not accepting apps currently (but has hired one for '16-'17)
Raggi: possibly DONE per a post in the '14-'15 thread (OSCAR lists her as still hiring but she hasn't updated in ages; a July post in this thread indicates 1 spot might be available)
Wesley: DONE through '17 per OSCAR, claims not to be accepting apps currently but had clearly filled positions before posting went live, so YMMV
Hall: DONE through '16, hires through OSCAR only, not accepting apps currently
Livingston: OPEN per OSCAR (last updated Feb. 2014) and a July post in this thread
Lynch: DONE through at least '16, already interviewed for '16
Chin: DONE per OSCAR as of early April 2014
Lohier: DONE; OSCAR has open positions for '16 and '17 live
Carney: OPEN (1 spot remaining), no spots for '16-'17 left; OSCAR last updated May 2014
Droney: DONE per email

Senior Circuit Judges
Newman: ?
Kearse: DONE through '16 per OSCAR as of 3/25/2014
Winter: OPEN per a July post in this thread
Walker: ?
Leval: DONE through at least '16
Calabresi: DONE through '17
Straub: OPEN per OSCAR, paper apps only
Sack: DONE through '17
Parker: OPEN per a July post in this thread

[Arbiter213]

Wesley hired for 15-16 last year this time (he had one last opening until fairly recently). I know he's been interviewing for 16-17.

Pooler has also hired at least one for 16-17.

[futurehorse]

Wesley hired for 15-16 last year this time (he had one last opening until fairly recently). I know he's been interviewing for 16-17.

Pooler has also hired at least one for 16-17.

thanks -- updated the OP accordingly.

[Anonymous User]

Can confirm Leval has been done for 2015 for a long time.

[futurehorse]

Can confirm Leval has been done for 2015 for a long time.

Thanks. Updated that and Kearse (per OSCAR -- she's now done).

[Doorkeeper]

Aside from Katzmann, is there anyone actively accepting apps for '17-'18 yet, or are they all basically on '16-'17?

[Anonymous User]

I happen to know through work sources that Jacobs has hired at least one for 2016-17. In general, the Second Circuit moves super-fast -- the Ninth has the law of averages to even it out, but the Second is really moving now for 2016. So as crazy as it sounds, you're probably not doing yourself a disservice if you want to send apps for 2017 now.

I know that's crazy for some observers, but think about it: there are kids out there who have accepted 2015-17 district court clerkships and are now looking for subsequent positions, and at least 3 judges are already done with 2016-17.

[Anonymous User]

Given this exchange from last summer, it wouldn't surprise me if Katzmann only has a couple of slots left, or none, for 16-17 or 17-18.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5#p6934207

[futurehorse]

Given this exchange from last summer, it wouldn't surprise me if Katzmann only has a couple of slots left, or none, for 16-17 or 17-18.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5#p6934207

He doesn't hire all his clerks from Rakoff (Rakoff hires 3, still, I think, and Katzmann hires 5), and not all of Rakoff's clerks go directly from Rakoff to Katzmann one year after the next (though that is the norm).

[Anonymous User]

1L here. What does it take to get a second circuit clerkship without doing a district court or having any WE first? Particularly in NYC? I get that Katzmann is out, obviously, but it looks like most people (just based on my school's past placements) who clerk for other judges on the second circuit also clerk on SDNY first, so what kind of credentials do you need to land a second circuit gig straight after law school? I'm not opposed to doing district court first, I get that it's a great experience and of course SDNY is not an easy feat itself, but I'm just trying to get a sense of whether it's posisble or not.

Edit: Sorry I guess this would be for 2016-2017, so not exactly the right thread. (Though in my defense the title does say "and beyond.")

[futurehorse]

1L here. What does it take to get a second circuit clerkship without doing a district court or having any WE first? Particularly in NYC? I get that Katzmann is out, obviously, but it looks like most people (just based on my school's past placements) who clerk for other judges on the second circuit also clerk on SDNY first, so what kind of credentials do you need to land a second circuit gig straight after law school? I'm not opposed to doing district court first, I get that it's a great experience and of course SDNY is not an easy feat itself, but I'm just trying to get a sense of whether it's posisble or not.

Edit: Sorry I guess this would be for 2016-2017, so not exactly the right thread. (Though in my defense the title does say "and beyond.")

Nah, I think this is "the right thread" -- the Second is pretty much done for 15-16 so this is as good a place as any to discuss the future.

From what I can tell, pretty much everyone on the Second Circuit wants to hire someone with prior experience -- either clerking, or working, or both. The NYC judges seem quite uniform in this regard (except maybe Chin?). Once you get out of the city, it becomes not everyone-everyone -- I know Judge Wesley hired someone from my school fresh out of law school, and someone else in this thread said he hired one of his clerks late in the game, so perhaps he holds a spot open? Don't know about Droney but his listing on OSCAR seemed friendly to students. The big-name senior judges (Calabresi, Leval) seem to hire law students, but way in advance, forcing them to have a year's worth of experience by the time they show up.

Generally speaking, in addition to the sterling credentials that we associate with 2/9/DC, the Second Circuit really does value work experience. If you did something before law school that you can point to as a plus, that might give you a leg up with the judges who don't explicitly state that they don't want fresh grads. Given that you're a 1L, however, many of the spots now open for '16-'17 are going to be full by the time you apply. Your inclination to go to the SDNY (assuming you have the grades/connections to do so) seems like a good one. And really, if you're some big-shot gunner-type, SDNY/2d Cir. is going to look even better on your resume than just 2d Cir. to whatever employer you want to go work for.

[AdamDeMamp]

I don't think Livingston has a strong preference for work experience, or at least as strong as someone like Katzmann or Jacobs--I know she has hired at least one current 2L at my school who will clerk for her in 2015-16.

[Anonymous User]

1L here. What does it take to get a second circuit clerkship without doing a district court or having any WE first? Particularly in NYC? I get that Katzmann is out, obviously, but it looks like most people (just based on my school's past placements) who clerk for other judges on the second circuit also clerk on SDNY first, so what kind of credentials do you need to land a second circuit gig straight after law school? I'm not opposed to doing district court first, I get that it's a great experience and of course SDNY is not an easy feat itself, but I'm just trying to get a sense of whether it's posisble or not.

Edit: Sorry I guess this would be for 2016-2017, so not exactly the right thread. (Though in my defense the title does say "and beyond.")

Nah, I think this is "the right thread" -- the Second is pretty much done for 15-16 so this is as good a place as any to discuss the future.

From what I can tell, pretty much everyone on the Second Circuit wants to hire someone with prior experience -- either clerking, or working, or both. The NYC judges seem quite uniform in this regard (except maybe Chin?). Once you get out of the city, it becomes not everyone-everyone -- I know Judge Wesley hired someone from my school fresh out of law school, and someone else in this thread said he hired one of his clerks late in the game, so perhaps he holds a spot open? Don't know about Droney but his listing on OSCAR seemed friendly to students. The big-name senior judges (Calabresi, Leval) seem to hire law students, but way in advance, forcing them to have a year's worth of experience by the time they show up.

Generally speaking, in addition to the sterling credentials that we associate with 2/9/DC, the Second Circuit really does value work experience. If you did something before law school that you can point to as a plus, that might give you a leg up with the judges who don't explicitly state that they don't want fresh grads. Given that you're a 1L, however, many of the spots now open for '16-'17 are going to be full by the time you apply. Your inclination to go to the SDNY (assuming you have the grades/connections to do so) seems like a good one. And really, if you're some big-shot gunner-type, SDNY/2d Cir. is going to look even better on your resume than just 2d Cir. to whatever employer you want to go work for.

Re: Wesley: He will hire straight out, but prefers to hire with a gap and encourages / helps place the prospective clerk with a district judge (Judge Berman (SDNY) has been receptive to his suggestions in the past).

He is also going to be taking Senior status as soon as he is eligible and will likely begin hiring fewer clerks.

[TLSNYC]

Besides Katzmann, are any Second Circuit (or Third Circuit) judges taking apps for 17-18? I realize it's a long way away but I'm shocked to see even Katzmann hiring that far out.

[futurehorse]

Lohier is hiring for '17-'18 as per OSCAR. Other than him and Katzmann, I haven't seen anyone actively hiring, but I'd bet that the judges who are listed as full up until 2017 might accept apps unless they've explicitly said otherwise.

[TLSNYC]

I have a question about judges from Connecticut on the Second Circuit. If their chambers are in Connecticut, does that mean they go to NYC once a week or so for oral argument? How frequently do they go to NYC? Do their clerks get to tag along?

[Anonymous User]

I have a question about judges from Connecticut on the Second Circuit. If their chambers are in Connecticut, does that mean they go to NYC once a week or so for oral argument? How frequently do they go to NYC? Do their clerks get to tag along?

If a judge is in Connecticut (or Vermont or upstate NY), they do travel to NYC for oral argument. Usually the Second Circuit judges sit four or five days in a row per month, so they aren't going to be doing it once a week or anything like that. When in NYC, they have their own chambers (though much smaller than the full-time NYC judges) to run things from. The primary exception is Winter, who typically does oral argument remotely via teleconference.

As for clerks, it depends on the judge from my experience. Some of the non-NYC judges will bring all of their clerks with them. I think the clerks get a small travel stipend to help cover travel costs. Some judges, though, recognize that bringing all of their clerks is just burning up government money when they don't necessarily need all of their clerks with them. In that case, I believe they set up a rotation system with two clerks or so going with them to NYC.

[futurehorse]

Updates as per OSCAR: Wesley is done for '16-'17 (that was fast) & not accepting apps; Lohier's positions are open on OSCAR for '16 and '17.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

How hard is it to get this type of clerkship? Is a previous district court clerkship required? What kind of grades/school combination are we talking about?

[Anonymous User]

I don't think Livingston has a strong preference for work experience, or at least as strong as someone like Katzmann or Jacobs--I know she has hired at least one current 2L at my school who will clerk for her in 2015-16.

Do you know what kind of grades this person had? Like super gunner? I've heard from several people that she's a huge grades snob, even for the Second Circuit, and pretty much doesn't hire outside of HYS. Any truth to that?

Also, how hard would it be for someone in the mid-T14 (not HYS) to get a Second Circuit clerkship?

[Anonymous User]

I don't think Livingston has a strong preference for work experience, or at least as strong as someone like Katzmann or Jacobs--I know she has hired at least one current 2L at my school who will clerk for her in 2015-16.

Do you know what kind of grades this person had? Like super gunner? I've heard from several people that she's a huge grades snob, even for the Second Circuit, and pretty much doesn't hire outside of HYS. Any truth to that?

Also, how hard would it be for someone in the mid-T14 (not HYS) to get a Second Circuit clerkship?

Consider the few judges outside NYC. Someone I know from lower-T14 got a Second Circuit with a non-NYC judge.

[AdamDeMamp]

I don't think Livingston has a strong preference for work experience, or at least as strong as someone like Katzmann or Jacobs--I know she has hired at least one current 2L at my school who will clerk for her in 2015-16.

Do you know what kind of grades this person had? Like super gunner? I've heard from several people that she's a huge grades snob, even for the Second Circuit, and pretty much doesn't hire outside of HYS. Any truth to that?

Also, how hard would it be for someone in the mid-T14 (not HYS) to get a Second Circuit clerkship?

I actually go to a CCN. The person she hired did have what I guess you could call super gunner grades - they're going to W&C post-graduation, Law Review, etc. - don't know for sure but my guess is one of Top 10 people in their class.

[Anonymous User]

Received email ding from Droney indicating that all spots were full.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think Livingston has a strong preference for work experience, or at least as strong as someone like Katzmann or Jacobs--I know she has hired at least one current 2L at my school who will clerk for her in 2015-16.

Do you know what kind of grades this person had? Like super gunner? I've heard from several people that she's a huge grades snob, even for the Second Circuit, and pretty much doesn't hire outside of HYS. Any truth to that?

Also, how hard would it be for someone in the mid-T14 (not HYS) to get a Second Circuit clerkship?

I actually go to a CCN. The person she hired did have what I guess you could call super gunner grades - they're going to W&C post-graduation, Law Review, etc. - don't know for sure but my guess is one of Top 10 people in their class.

Interesting. Do you by any chance go to Columbia? I should have said that I heard she doesn't hire outside of HYSColumbia, given her prof gig at Columbia and all. Like I think she literally has only ever hired one person not from HYSC, and even then the people she hired from HYSC were like SCOTUS potential kids. I did really well first semester 1L, so if my second semester grades are anything similar, my grades should place me in one of the top spots at my school - but I don't go to HYSColumbia. Guess it can never hurt to try, but it looks like I should focus on landing a SDNY gig first and then trying to use that to boost my chances for a Second Circuit clerkship in NYC? Is that generally the easier/safer way to go about the application cycle? If so, does anyone have recommendations for SDNY judges that have a good track record with Second Circuit judges? Sorry if there is a separate SDNY thread.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think Livingston has a strong preference for work experience, or at least as strong as someone like Katzmann or Jacobs--I know she has hired at least one current 2L at my school who will clerk for her in 2015-16.

Do you know what kind of grades this person had? Like super gunner? I've heard from several people that she's a huge grades snob, even for the Second Circuit, and pretty much doesn't hire outside of HYS. Any truth to that?

Also, how hard would it be for someone in the mid-T14 (not HYS) to get a Second Circuit clerkship?

Consider the few judges outside NYC. Someone I know from lower-T14 got a Second Circuit with a non-NYC judge.

It's not that I want to prestige whore all over the place about NYC or non-NYC. It's just that my girlfriend is going to be working in the city, and we've been talking about us moving out there post-graduation for a while now. Second Circuit in NYC would be nice, but I'd probably take SDNY over non-NYC Second Circuit. Well, that is assuming that SDNY would even have me, of course.