How much of a boost for COA clerkships is a D Ct clerkship? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Will it compensate for subpar grades? I know it probably depends on the judge, but does anyone have any relevant anecdotes?

[A. Nony Mouse]

This is very tenuous, but: I did a state clerkship and am now in federal district court. After getting this gig, I had a number of people ask me if I was going to apply for a COA clerkship next. When I said that I didn't have the grades for that (which is true), they told me that by this point, it would be about my experience, and not really about my grades. Now, I didn't apply for COA, so I don't know how correct these people's advice was, but some law people believed this.

The district court clerkship can be really helpful, of course, if your judge is willing to go to bat for you and recommend you to COA judges s/he knows (like those in the same circuit). I think that makes a HUGE difference. That seems a lot more likely after you've been in the D Ct clerkship for a bit, though I believe some people have managed to do this on the strength of getting a clerkship, before they've done it yet. But I can't say from personal experience how it works.

[Anonymous User]

How do you get a district court judge to "go to bat" for you before you have begun clerking for them?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Honestly? I have no idea. I've seen people talk about it, but I've never tried it myself. I suppose you could call/e-mail the judge to say that you're interested in going to a COA judge after and if s/he has any suggestions about who would be good to apply to/advice for the application process. The judge might then say something like, "Hey, I'm buddies with Judge X and would be happy to mention you're applying." Or they might not. I think it would depend a great deal on the judge and your connection to them. (My current judge would probably be very happy to do something like this, just by temperament; also, the person who's replacing me is local and has been much better than I ever was about being in touch regularly after getting hired, so would be in a better position to ask for something like this.)

[lolwat]

My judge actually reached out to me and offered to help me with something a little while before my clerkship started. I think at the point where you've accepted the offer, some judges -- just depending on who they are and what they're like -- already like you enough to start going to bat for you. They obviously can't speak to how good your work product is, because you haven't produced any, but that shouldn't be a problem if you already had the grades to get hired.

I think the way to do it is what A Nony Mouse said above.

[imchuckbass58]

In the second circuit there are several judges who only hire alums and several others who de facto require district court clerkships (the two groups overlap somewhat). Insofar as having a district court clerkship under your belt qualifies you for these judges, especially the latter group, I imagine it can only help.

There are also several COA judges who formally hire as a tag team with district judges (e.g., Rakoff / Katzmann), and several others who informally hire clerks heavily from the same 3-4 district judges.

[Anonymous User]

In the second circuit there are several judges who only hire alums and several others who de facto require district court clerkships (the two groups overlap somewhat). Insofar as having a district court clerkship under your belt qualifies you for these judges, especially the latter group, I imagine it can only help.

There are also several COA judges who formally hire as a tag team with district judges (e.g., Rakoff / Katzmann), and several others who informally hire clerks heavily from the same 3-4 district judges.

For judges who only hire "alums," is a D.Ct. clerkship enough to make classify you as an "alum"? If it is 2 years?

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't know if this counts for all judges, but I definitely know judges who treat having a previous clerkship as previous experience (it certainly makes you an alum, since you're getting hired after/around graduation, not as a rising 2L).

[lolwat]

For judges who only hire "alums," is a D.Ct. clerkship enough to make classify you as an "alum"? If it is 2 years?

This may not necessarily be true among all judges, but for the most part, "alum" basically just means you aren't applying for a position to start right out of law school.

I've found only a few judges that don't seem to count a district court clerkship as experience. Reyna on Fed. Cir. seems to want actual litigation experience for example. There might have been one 9th Cir. judge that also required actual litigation experience.

[Anonymous User]

Who are the judges in the 2d Circuit who generally only hire alums?

[Anonymous User]

Who are the judges in the 2d Circuit who generally only hire alums?

The ones I know of that explicitly only hire alums are Sack, Straub, and Katzmann. Others like Jacobs or Raggi seem to have lots of (only?) alumni clerks even though I'm not sure if that's an explicit policy or just how it works out.

[Citizen Genet]

Who are the judges in the 2d Circuit who generally only hire alums?

The ones I know of that explicitly only hire alums are Sack, Straub, and Katzmann. Others like Jacobs or Raggi seem to have lots (only?) alumni clerks even though I'm not sure if that's an explicit policy or just how it works out.

Raggi has a soft policy of alums only. (Strong preference, but she has interviewed - and rejected - non-alums in the past.)

[Anonymous User]

bump

[Anonymous User]

District court judges will sometimes advocate for their future clerks before they've started clerking for them. Indeed, in my district court interview the judge offered me the spot on the spot and I accepted. S/he immediately offered to call their colleagues on the corresponding circuit court and push my app up to them. At least the more ambitious district court judges want to push their clerks on to circuit courts as well, so this does happen sometimes, but it also may be a S/EDNY/DDC phenomenon, since I'm clerking on one of those district courts.

[Anonymous User]

In the second circuit there are several judges who only hire alums and several others who de facto require district court clerkships (the two groups overlap somewhat). Insofar as having a district court clerkship under your belt qualifies you for these judges, especially the latter group, I imagine it can only help.

There are also several COA judges who formally hire as a tag team with district judges (e.g., Rakoff / Katzmann), and several others who informally hire clerks heavily from the same 3-4 district judges.

For SDNY, who are those judges that tend to place well on the 2d Cir.?

[Anonymous User]

This is a bit of a outdated post, but I noticed TLS didnt have a single thread dedicated to COA judges who put a lot of weight on a Dist Ct. clerkship. Are there any other judges outside the 2d Cir that particularly like to hire dist clerks?

[Anonymous User]

This is a bit of a outdated post, but I noticed TLS didnt have a single thread dedicated to COA judges who put a lot of weight on a Dist Ct. clerkship. Are there any other judges outside the 2d Cir that particularly like to hire dist clerks?

Just to head off the inevitable anecdotes, many of these judges do not require prior clerkship experience, nonetheless, they have demonstrated a preference of varying strength for hiring prior Dist. Ct. clerks or people with other prior clerkship experience.

Lipez (1st)
Chagares (3d)
Greenberg (3d)
Keenan (4th)
Griffin (6th)
Callahan (9th)
Wallace (9th)
Briscoe (10th)

(edited to add a few more that came to mind)

[Anonymous User]

How much a district court clerkship benefits your candidacy depends on the judge/circuit, and in some cases, on the strength of the district court clerkship (e.g., SDNY better than D.N.D.). Anecdotal, but I have seen marginal COA candidates hired after securing a d. ct. clerkship--for some judges, it is that important. For other judges, it won't give you a huge boost, but all things being equal, the judge would take a d. ct. clerk over a graduating 3L.

A district court clerkship most helps your candidacy with judges/circuits that seem to require either a d. ct clerkship or work experience. As some people have said, the 2d Cir., 3d Cir., and some of the DC Cir. judges prefer strongly that you have a d. ct. clerkship. There are other judges throughout the circuits who have the same preference. Search TLS/OSCAR and ask your career services person who those judges are.

[Anonymous User]

This is a bit of a outdated post, but I noticed TLS didnt have a single thread dedicated to COA judges who put a lot of weight on a Dist Ct. clerkship. Are there any other judges outside the 2d Cir that particularly like to hire dist clerks?

Just to head off the inevitable anecdotes, many of these judges do not require prior clerkship experience, nonetheless, they have demonstrated a preference of varying strength for hiring prior Dist. Ct. clerks or people with other prior clerkship experience.

Lipez (1st)
Chagares (3d)
Greenberg (3d)
Keenan (4th)
Griffin (6th)
Callahan (9th)
Wallace (9th)
Briscoe (10th)

(edited to add a few more that came to mind)

Milan Smith on the 9th Circuit tends to hire a lot of former district court clerks, and generally that's becoming more and more common throughout the Circuit.

[Anonymous User]

This is a bit of a outdated post, but I noticed TLS didnt have a single thread dedicated to COA judges who put a lot of weight on a Dist Ct. clerkship. Are there any other judges outside the 2d Cir that particularly like to hire dist clerks?

Just to head off the inevitable anecdotes, many of these judges do not require prior clerkship experience, nonetheless, they have demonstrated a preference of varying strength for hiring prior Dist. Ct. clerks or people with other prior clerkship experience.

Lipez (1st)
Chagares (3d)
Greenberg (3d)
Keenan (4th)
Griffin (6th)
Callahan (9th)
Wallace (9th)
Briscoe (10th)

(edited to add a few more that came to mind)

I know first-hand that Callahan only hires alums, often ones who are many years out of LS. I also know that Wallace likes former d. ct. clerks, but it's not a requirement.

-Friend of former Callahan and Wallace clerks.

[Anonymous User]

I believe at this point Tatel (D.C. Cir.) is generally only hiring clerks who have already secured D. Ct. clerkships or with the plan that he will help them obtain one. It's been a while since I've heard of anyone going straight to Tatel.