Let's Talk 9th Circuit! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any intelligence on who the district judge in this opinion was: https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/ ... -90082.pdf ?

[MDNCU]

Anyone have any intel on what Bennett looks for/hiring standards? He just opened on OSCAR and I don't have much info on what his standards are like.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel on what Bennett looks for/hiring standards? He just opened on OSCAR and I don't have much info on what his standards are like.

Classmate of mine is clerking for him and has the typical top 5-10% ish, law review, other clerkship credentials from a T14.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel on what Bennett looks for/hiring standards? He just opened on OSCAR and I don't have much info on what his standards are like.

Classmate of mine is clerking for him and has the typical top 5-10% ish, law review, other clerkship credentials from a T14.

When I was clerking (and reviewing apps/interviewing), Bennett was part of a group with Ikuta, Bybee, Bea, Bade, Smith, etc. who were all competing for the same candidates. Standard T14 law review FedSoc-but-not-VanDyke-tier type. Although I don't think any of these except Bea actually screen for ideology as I know liberals who clerked for all--it's more self-selection as the same pool of conservative students applies to the same judges.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel on what Bennett looks for/hiring standards? He just opened on OSCAR and I don't have much info on what his standards are like.

Classmate of mine is clerking for him and has the typical top 5-10% ish, law review, other clerkship credentials from a T14.

When I was clerking (and reviewing apps/interviewing), Bennett was part of a group with Ikuta, Bybee, Bea, Bade, Smith, etc. who were all competing for the same candidates. Standard T14 law review FedSoc-but-not-VanDyke-tier type. Although I don't think any of these except Bea actually screen for ideology as I know liberals who clerked for all--it's more self-selection as the same pool of conservative students applies to the same judges.

Is there a similar current grouping or band of judges hiring for liberal credentials?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel on what Bennett looks for/hiring standards? He just opened on OSCAR and I don't have much info on what his standards are like.

Classmate of mine is clerking for him and has the typical top 5-10% ish, law review, other clerkship credentials from a T14.

When I was clerking (and reviewing apps/interviewing), Bennett was part of a group with Ikuta, Bybee, Bea, Bade, Smith, etc. who were all competing for the same candidates. Standard T14 law review FedSoc-but-not-VanDyke-tier type. Although I don't think any of these except Bea actually screen for ideology as I know liberals who clerked for all--it's more self-selection as the same pool of conservative students applies to the same judges.

Is there a similar current grouping or band of judges hiring for liberal credentials?

From what I've seen at my school, it's roughly:

Fletcher
Gap
Friedland, Koh, Berzon
Big gap
Everyone else

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel on what Bennett looks for/hiring standards? He just opened on OSCAR and I don't have much info on what his standards are like.

Classmate of mine is clerking for him and has the typical top 5-10% ish, law review, other clerkship credentials from a T14.

When I was clerking (and reviewing apps/interviewing), Bennett was part of a group with Ikuta, Bybee, Bea, Bade, Smith, etc. who were all competing for the same candidates. Standard T14 law review FedSoc-but-not-VanDyke-tier type. Although I don't think any of these except Bea actually screen for ideology as I know liberals who clerked for all--it's more self-selection as the same pool of conservative students applies to the same judges.

Is there a similar current grouping or band of judges hiring for liberal credentials?

From what I've seen at my school, it's roughly:

Fletcher
Gap
Friedland, Koh, Berzon
Big gap
Everyone else

I'm the conservative-judge clerk alum above, and this list tracks my experience as well. Of the Biden appointees I would expect Sanchez has the best chance of becoming highly selective (along with Koh, who already was in high demand as a district judge).

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel on what Bennett looks for/hiring standards? He just opened on OSCAR and I don't have much info on what his standards are like.

Classmate of mine is clerking for him and has the typical top 5-10% ish, law review, other clerkship credentials from a T14.

When I was clerking (and reviewing apps/interviewing), Bennett was part of a group with Ikuta, Bybee, Bea, Bade, Smith, etc. who were all competing for the same candidates. Standard T14 law review FedSoc-but-not-VanDyke-tier type. Although I don't think any of these except Bea actually screen for ideology as I know liberals who clerked for all--it's more self-selection as the same pool of conservative students applies to the same judges.

Is there a similar current grouping or band of judges hiring for liberal credentials?

From what I've seen at my school, it's roughly:

Fletcher
Gap
Friedland, Koh, Berzon
Big gap
Everyone else

I'm the conservative-judge clerk alum above, and this list tracks my experience as well. Of the Biden appointees I would expect Sanchez has the best chance of becoming highly selective (along with Koh, who already was in high demand as a district judge).

Right, but just to be clear, “Everyone else” means at least top 10% + law review + other credentials from a T14, unless the applicant has an unorthodox appeal to the specific judge (e.g., a Hawaii native for Bennett, who’s been mentioned). Right?

And “highly selective” means valedictorian, EIC, etc.

At least, that tracks my knowledge of 9th Cir. clerks.

Also, shouldn’t Owens be alongside Berzon in this list?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel on what Bennett looks for/hiring standards? He just opened on OSCAR and I don't have much info on what his standards are like.

Classmate of mine is clerking for him and has the typical top 5-10% ish, law review, other clerkship credentials from a T14.

When I was clerking (and reviewing apps/interviewing), Bennett was part of a group with Ikuta, Bybee, Bea, Bade, Smith, etc. who were all competing for the same candidates. Standard T14 law review FedSoc-but-not-VanDyke-tier type. Although I don't think any of these except Bea actually screen for ideology as I know liberals who clerked for all--it's more self-selection as the same pool of conservative students applies to the same judges.

Is there a similar current grouping or band of judges hiring for liberal credentials?

From what I've seen at my school, it's roughly:

Fletcher
Gap
Friedland, Koh, Berzon
Big gap
Everyone else

I'm the conservative-judge clerk alum above, and this list tracks my experience as well. Of the Biden appointees I would expect Sanchez has the best chance of becoming highly selective (along with Koh, who already was in high demand as a district judge).

Right, but just to be clear, “Everyone else” means at least top 10% + law review + other credentials from a T14, unless the applicant has an unorthodox appeal to the specific judge (e.g., a Hawaii native for Bennett, who’s been mentioned). Right?

And “highly selective” means valedictorian, EIC, etc.

At least, that tracks my knowledge of 9th Cir. clerks.

Also, shouldn’t Owens be alongside Berzon in this list?

"Everyone else" refers to the rest of the Democratic appointees on the court, who have different hiring standards but are lumped together because unlike these 4, they don't primarily hire people who are competitive for SCOTUS or nearly so. For most of the rest, it's the traditional top 10% at T14, top 5% at UCLA/USC (etc.), top few students at local schools.

But they're not a monolith. Rawlinson for example tends to hire people with several years work experience and hires very late in the cycle; she's less of a stickler for the traditional grades/LR stuff. McKeown also requires work experience, Sid Thomas hires the conventional folks but also a good number of locals, etc.

[Anonymous User]

I think this distinction in terms of “bands” can be helpful for future CA9 applicants, so will also chime in based on what I’ve seen from my T-14 for the “liberal” judges (or at least those who don’t necessarily hire through the FedSoc pipeline)

Judges for whom top 10% is necessary but not sufficient: Fletcher, Friedland, Berzon, Koh

Basically for the rest of the Dem-appointees, having good grades is obviously helpful but it’s not the same kind of necessary precondition. Owens, Sanchez, Wardlaw, Paez, Nguyen, Christen, etc. have all hired clerks without honors distinctions. Owens will hire with the right kind of recommendation, Paez values public interest experience, Christen likes people with an interest in Alaska, etc.

They’re all exceptionally good and very competitive clerkships, but they don’t require the grades/LR credentials in the same way as the first band of judges.

[Anonymous User]

what's the order/tiering of the more conservative judges? bumatay, bress, collins, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Those are probably the three most competitive. Bumatay and Bress seem to be the most ambitious even though neither has emerged as a feeder yet. There aren't really any feeders on the 9th right now, although Fletcher has fed a ton over his career and is still probably the hardest clerkship on the circuit to get.

Of the other Trump appointees I'd say only VanDyke stands out from the pack of "be top 10% at a T14, etc." hiring because he's looking for ideological warriors. Miller is the most moderate of the bunch and that may reflect in his hiring, but as I said above, the majority of the R appointees on the 9th (even Ikuta, who's pretty stalwart) will hire liberals.

[Anonymous User]

what are the vibes/reputations/quality work of the trump 9th circuit, including those just mentioned as well as bade, nelson, lee, forrest, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any information regarding chambers environment/expectations/mentorship etc. for Chesney (NDCL)?

[Anonymous User]

what are the vibes/reputations/quality work of the trump 9th circuit, including those just mentioned as well as bade, nelson, lee, forrest, etc.

Bennett is pretty moderate and not a particular genius but at least isn't viewed as a hack. IDK what he's like as a boss.

Collins is smart but has sharp elbows. A decent boss, supposedly.

VanDyke is not especially smart and also has sharp elbows.

Bress is smart. IDK what he's like as a person/boss.

[Anonymous User]

what are the vibes/reputations/quality work of the trump 9th circuit, including those just mentioned as well as bade, nelson, lee, forrest, etc.

Bennett is pretty moderate and not a particular genius but at least isn't viewed as a hack. IDK what he's like as a boss.

Collins is smart but has sharp elbows. A decent boss, supposedly.

VanDyke is not especially smart and also has sharp elbows.

Bress is smart. IDK what he's like as a person/boss.

Different poster adding on:

Bennett is reportedly a great boss and a good mentor.

Forrest is more conservative than but otherwise similar to Bennett: smart but not exceptionally so for a circuit judge. Have heard secondhand that shes a good boss/mentor.

Nelson is a hack and gave me unpleasant personal vibes; but I have no insight into him as a boss.

Bumatay is a smarter judge than VanDyke/Nelson. Fedsoc bros like to lump him in with the exceptionally smart camp alongside Bress/Collins/maybe Miller, but from a more moderate standpoint, I think he’s much closer to VanDyke/Nelson than Bress/Collins.

[Anonymous User]

what are the vibes/reputations/quality work of the trump 9th circuit, including those just mentioned as well as bade, nelson, lee, forrest, etc.

Bennett is pretty moderate and not a particular genius but at least isn't viewed as a hack. IDK what he's like as a boss.

Collins is smart but has sharp elbows. A decent boss, supposedly.

VanDyke is not especially smart and also has sharp elbows.

Bress is smart. IDK what he's like as a person/boss.

Different poster adding on:

Bennett is reportedly a great boss and a good mentor.

Forrest is more conservative than but otherwise similar to Bennett: smart but not exceptionally so for a circuit judge. Have heard secondhand that shes a good boss/mentor.

Nelson is a hack and gave me unpleasant personal vibes; but I have no insight into him as a boss.

Bumatay is a smarter judge than VanDyke/Nelson. Fedsoc bros like to lump him in with the exceptionally smart camp alongside Bress/Collins/maybe Miller, but from a more moderate standpoint, I think he’s much closer to VanDyke/Nelson than Bress/Collins.

In my opinion, the 'smartest' judge on the 9th circuit is Fletcher. And the 2nd smartest is Miller. But Miller doesn't get the same level of respect from the fedsoc crew since they don't think he's conservative enough.

[Anonymous User]

why isn't miller more conservative? isn't he a thomas clerk?

[Anonymous User]

why isn't miller more conservative? isn't he a thomas clerk?

He graduated #1 from Chicago his year and clerked for Silberman who was the #1 feeder to Thomas for many years. All great components to get a Thomas clerkship. And from what I can tell, he has more of a libertarian streak.

[Anonymous User]

what are the vibes/reputations/quality work of the trump 9th circuit, including those just mentioned as well as bade, nelson, lee, forrest, etc.

Bennett is pretty moderate and not a particular genius but at least isn't viewed as a hack. IDK what he's like as a boss.

Collins is smart but has sharp elbows. A decent boss, supposedly.

VanDyke is not especially smart and also has sharp elbows.

Bress is smart. IDK what he's like as a person/boss.

Different poster adding on:

Bennett is reportedly a great boss and a good mentor.

Forrest is more conservative than but otherwise similar to Bennett: smart but not exceptionally so for a circuit judge. Have heard secondhand that shes a good boss/mentor.

Nelson is a hack and gave me unpleasant personal vibes; but I have no insight into him as a boss.

Bumatay is a smarter judge than VanDyke/Nelson. Fedsoc bros like to lump him in with the exceptionally smart camp alongside Bress/Collins/maybe Miller, but from a more moderate standpoint, I think he’s much closer to VanDyke/Nelson than Bress/Collins.

In my opinion, the 'smartest' judge on the 9th circuit is Fletcher. And the 2nd smartest is Miller. But Miller doesn't get the same level of respect from the fedsoc crew since they don't think he's conservative enough.

Miller also arguably has the best bona fide credentials of any non-senior CA9 judge. Besides being a DC Circuit and SCOTUS clerk, he worked at OLC, DOJ civil appellate, the SG’s office, and then became the chair of a big law appellate practice. If anything, he could’ve easily become a MAGA or at least FedSoc shill with his resume and Thomas credentials. Gotta respect the fact that he didn’t.

[Anonymous User]

what's the order/tiering of the more conservative judges? bumatay, bress, collins, etc.

Anecdotally, the conservative/FedSoc students from my T14 with top grades who weren’t ideologues seemed to go towards Bress, Miller, and Collins

[Anonymous User]

Miller cares little if anything about Fed Soc when hiring clerks.

[Anonymous User]

I think this distinction in terms of “bands” can be helpful for future CA9 applicants, so will also chime in based on what I’ve seen from my T-14 for the “liberal” judges (or at least those who don’t necessarily hire through the FedSoc pipeline)

Judges for whom top 10% is necessary but not sufficient: Fletcher, Friedland, Berzon, Koh

Basically for the rest of the Dem-appointees, having good grades is obviously helpful but it’s not the same kind of necessary precondition. Owens, Sanchez, Wardlaw, Paez, Nguyen, Christen, etc. have all hired clerks without honors distinctions. Owens will hire with the right kind of recommendation, Paez values public interest experience, Christen likes people with an interest in Alaska, etc.

They’re all exceptionally good and very competitive clerkships, but they don’t require the grades/LR credentials in the same way as the first band of judges.

Friedland is a huge stickler for grades. Unsurprising for someone who graduated second in her law school class.

[Anonymous User]

I think this distinction in terms of “bands” can be helpful for future CA9 applicants, so will also chime in based on what I’ve seen from my T-14 for the “liberal” judges (or at least those who don’t necessarily hire through the FedSoc pipeline)

Judges for whom top 10% is necessary but not sufficient: Fletcher, Friedland, Berzon, Koh

Basically for the rest of the Dem-appointees, having good grades is obviously helpful but it’s not the same kind of necessary precondition. Owens, Sanchez, Wardlaw, Paez, Nguyen, Christen, etc. have all hired clerks without honors distinctions. Owens will hire with the right kind of recommendation, Paez values public interest experience, Christen likes people with an interest in Alaska, etc.

They’re all exceptionally good and very competitive clerkships, but they don’t require the grades/LR credentials in the same way as the first band of judges.

As someone who worked for one of the dem-apointees listed as not requiring top 10% grades, i can sadly say that's not true. don't think my judge hired clerks who weren't at least top 10%, and top 5% was more common.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah the distinction we're talking about here is "hunting for the top handful of students at each school" vs. "will look at candidates more holistically so long as they have elite grades." To say a CA9 judge cares less about grades does not generally mean they're going to hire someone a bit above median so long as there's something else on the application they like. It moreso means that they're going to consider No. 16 in the class alongside No. 2 instead of defaulting to No. 2.

Relatively few CA9 clerks have grades below top 5%, maybe top 10% at HYS. There are just too many applicants from those pools to get noticed otherwise, outside of a unicorn situation.