Best and worst judges to clerk for Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone heard about what it's like to clerk for Justin Walker? I probably won't apply because I assume he doesn't hire libs like me (and might have a reputation as kind of a hack), but I'm curious. He just posted for 2021.

I haven't heard bad things about him as a boss or person. The only thing I might note is to read some of his opinions to see if you could accept writing in the style he prefers. I can't speak to ideology in his hiring.

Interesting. Yeah, his opinions have, um... panache, to say the least. I do wonder if his reputation as a hardline ideologue is so significant that he'd be a toxic name to have on my resume. I'm just trying to figure that out before I apply because if he does hire libs, I'd probably be a reasonably competitive applicant.

No idea on whether he hires by ideology (he strikes me as someone who may, but judges can surprise), but unless you want to work for a really picky left-advocacy group there's no way he'd be a "toxic name" on your resume. A DC Circuit clerkship is a pretty bright gold star on your resume, especially for DC biglaw and most DOJ/fedgov jobs. I doubt even a Biden White House would turn away a Walker clerk who otherwise had Democratic credentials on their resume.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone heard about what it's like to clerk for Justin Walker? I probably won't apply because I assume he doesn't hire libs like me (and might have a reputation as kind of a hack), but I'm curious. He just posted for 2021.

I haven't heard bad things about him as a boss or person. The only thing I might note is to read some of his opinions to see if you could accept writing in the style he prefers. I can't speak to ideology in his hiring.

Interesting. Yeah, his opinions have, um... panache, to say the least. I do wonder if his reputation as a hardline ideologue is so significant that he'd be a toxic name to have on my resume. I'm just trying to figure that out before I apply because if he does hire libs, I'd probably be a reasonably competitive applicant.

No idea on whether he hires by ideology (he strikes me as someone who may, but judges can surprise), but unless you want to work for a really picky left-advocacy group there's no way he'd be a "toxic name" on your resume. A DC Circuit clerkship is a pretty bright gold star on your resume, especially for DC biglaw and most DOJ/fedgov jobs. I doubt even a Biden White House would turn away a Walker clerk who otherwise had Democratic credentials on their resume.

I think this overstates things a bit. Judge Rao has certainly made a name for herself on the DC Circuit, and it's not a positive one. I think there's a decent chance Judge Walker will do the same in attempt to try out for SCOTUS. That does reflect on the clerks, rightly or wrongly. If you're looking to go generic biglaw in New York, then fine, it won't matter. In DC, it won't matter re: getting a job, but it might have an effect down the line (as there's basically no way to make partner in DC without spending some time in government, often in a political role).

If you do in fact have lots of left-leaning, political stuff on your resume and still get hired by Walker, then yeah, sure, I think you'll probably be fine. But most progressive/center-left law students/lawyers don't have that much on their resume either way--they just feel a certain way. Nothing else + Walker will brand you, and it may make it impossible to work in a political job in a future democratic administration.

An example (and the reason I'm anonymous): I worked at a prestigious US Attorney's office my 1L summer (think SDNY/EDNY/EDVA). One of the AUSAs there had clerked for a couple conservative judges, including on the Supreme Court. These judges were not *nearly* as overtly ideological, young, or (at least perceived to be) unqualified as Walker. S/he could not get any political job in the Obama administration and blamed the signaling effects of the clerkships.

Note, when I saw "political" job, I don't mean a political advisor to the president or campaign work, I mean any of the raft of non-career DOJ and other agency jobs that cycle through with each administration. To get one of these jobs, you need be on one of the teams, and you don't want to send too many mixed signals.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know the best and worst judges on the District of Massachusetts? Very interested in that court/the Boston market (have ties).

Judge Wolf is the worst, full stop. I don't think I've heard bad things about anyone else, and I've heard good reviews for Zobel, Stearns, Casper, and Talwani. Additionally Gorton and Woodlock are both known to put on a "cranky old man" show in the courtroom but are considered very good bosses/mentors in chambers.

I was also told by a former D. Mass. clerk to avoid Wolf

[Sporty1911]

Anyone heard about what it's like to clerk for Justin Walker? I probably won't apply because I assume he doesn't hire libs like me (and might have a reputation as kind of a hack), but I'm curious. He just posted for 2021.

I haven't heard bad things about him as a boss or person. The only thing I might note is to read some of his opinions to see if you could accept writing in the style he prefers. I can't speak to ideology in his hiring.

Interesting. Yeah, his opinions have, um... panache, to say the least. I do wonder if his reputation as a hardline ideologue is so significant that he'd be a toxic name to have on my resume. I'm just trying to figure that out before I apply because if he does hire libs, I'd probably be a reasonably competitive applicant.

No idea on whether he hires by ideology (he strikes me as someone who may, but judges can surprise), but unless you want to work for a really picky left-advocacy group there's no way he'd be a "toxic name" on your resume. A DC Circuit clerkship is a pretty bright gold star on your resume, especially for DC biglaw and most DOJ/fedgov jobs. I doubt even a Biden White House would turn away a Walker clerk who otherwise had Democratic credentials on their resume.

I think this overstates things a bit. Judge Rao has certainly made a name for herself on the DC Circuit, and it's not a positive one. I think there's a decent chance Judge Walker will do the same in attempt to try out for SCOTUS. That does reflect on the clerks, rightly or wrongly. If you're looking to go generic biglaw in New York, then fine, it won't matter. In DC, it won't matter re: getting a job, but it might have an effect down the line (as there's basically no way to make partner in DC without spending some time in government, often in a political role).

If you do in fact have lots of left-leaning, political stuff on your resume and still get hired by Walker, then yeah, sure, I think you'll probably be fine. But most progressive/center-left law students/lawyers don't have that much on their resume either way--they just feel a certain way. Nothing else + Walker will brand you, and it may make it impossible to work in a political job in a future democratic administration.

An example (and the reason I'm anonymous): I worked at a prestigious US Attorney's office my 1L summer (think SDNY/EDNY/EDVA). One of the AUSAs there had clerked for a couple conservative judges, including on the Supreme Court. These judges were not *nearly* as overtly ideological, young, or (at least perceived to be) unqualified as Walker. S/he could not get any political job in the Obama administration and blamed the signaling effects of the clerkships.

Note, when I saw "political" job, I don't mean a political advisor to the president or campaign work, I mean any of the raft of non-career DOJ and other agency jobs that cycle through with each administration. To get one of these jobs, you need be on one of the teams, and you don't want to send too many mixed signals.

Lol this could not be farther from the truth. Go on LinkedIn and look at DC Biglaw partners. You’ll find dozens and dozens, if not a majority, have no experience serving in the government.

[Anonymous User]

If you do in fact have lots of left-leaning, political stuff on your resume and still get hired by Walker, then yeah, sure, I think you'll probably be fine. But most progressive/center-left law students/lawyers don't have that much on their resume either way--they just feel a certain way. Nothing else + Walker will brand you, and it may make it impossible to work in a political job in a future democratic administration.

An example (and the reason I'm anonymous): I worked at a prestigious US Attorney's office my 1L summer (think SDNY/EDNY/EDVA). One of the AUSAs there had clerked for a couple conservative judges, including on the Supreme Court. These judges were not *nearly* as overtly ideological, young, or (at least perceived to be) unqualified as Walker. S/he could not get any political job in the Obama administration and blamed the signaling effects of the clerkships.

Note, when I saw "political" job, I don't mean a political advisor to the president or campaign work, I mean any of the raft of non-career DOJ and other agency jobs that cycle through with each administration. To get one of these jobs, you need be on one of the teams, and you don't want to send too many mixed signals.

To clarify, this is what I'm worried about. I've always wanted to leave the door open to political jobs. All I have that "scream" which team I'm on are a loose affiliation with ACS and a college internship with a Dem politician, and without revealing too much, a couple other things on my resume might (wrongly) imply some slight conservative sympathies. I worry a Walker clerkship would not be the best for my prospects in government. Probably won't apply.

[Anonymous User]

I was initially interested in applying for the new Walker posting on Oscar (am conservative and who doesn't want DC Circuit), but then read some of his opinions and... oh my that writing style. No thanks.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

He’s retiring soon anyway, but don’t clerk for Brent Appel on the Iowa Supreme Court. He’s very grouchy, doesn’t get along with the other justices, and writes tons of really long opinions that create a ton of work for his clerks.

[Anonymous User]

Could anyone elaborate on Judge Berman?

[Wild Card]

[DELETE]

[Anonymous User]

Any bad N.D. Tex. judges?

No real horror stories. As to workload, Lindsey and Lynn work clerks pretty hard, as does O'Connor (who hires mostly through fed soc). A bunch of the judges are new, so you won't hear much reliable intel on, say, Starr, Hendrix, Kacsmaryk, Brown, or Pittman---although I've heard anecdotally that Pittman is fine. Fish, Cummings, and McBryde are all great to work for.

Could anyone elaborate on Judge Lindsay?

[Anonymous User]

Not a clerk but thinking about applying. This whole thread is interesting to me insofar as it reveals how much some clerks work in terms of hours. Are crazy hours normal? Are they generally tied to circuit clerkships or district clerkships in places like S.D.N.Y. or D. D.C.? I interned for two judges prior to 2L and all of the clerks worked a strict 9-5 with no weekends so this is all news to me.

[Anonymous User]

Not a clerk but thinking about applying. This whole thread is interesting to me insofar as it reveals how much some clerks work in terms of hours. Are crazy hours normal? Are they generally tied to circuit clerkships or district clerkships in places like S.D.N.Y. or D. D.C.? I interned for two judges prior to 2L and all of the clerks worked a strict 9-5 with no weekends so this is all news to me.

The judge I will clerk for is strict 9-5. The judge I interned for was 10am-2am, although whether that was just the clerks' self-imposed expectations or the judge's, I cannot say.

[polareagle]

There are some outlandish claims above about a clerkship needing to be "consuming." As you saw, a lot of people pushed back. A decent number of clerkships are 9-5. Probably a larger number are something like 9-6:30 or so on average. (In District Court, weeks where there's trial or just before the March or September CJRA lists are likely to be busier. In Circuit Court, weeks before OA are likely to be busier.) There are a few clerkships that are notorious for being "two years fit into one" kind of experiences, but these are relatively few and far between and have way more to do with the judge than the particular district/circuit.

[mjb447]

There are some outlandish claims above about a clerkship needing to be "consuming." As you saw, a lot of people pushed back. A decent number of clerkships are 9-5. Probably a larger number are something like 9-6:30 or so on average. (In District Court, weeks where there's trial or just before the March or September CJRA lists are likely to be busier. In Circuit Court, weeks before OA are likely to be busier.) There are a few clerkships that are notorious for being "two years fit into one" kind of experiences, but these are relatively few and far between and have way more to do with the judge than the particular district/circuit.

+1 (again). I'd probably call 9-5/no weekends unusually light, but the average is way, way below something like biglaw (never mind Koz).

[lavarman84]

There are some outlandish claims above about a clerkship needing to be "consuming." As you saw, a lot of people pushed back. A decent number of clerkships are 9-5. Probably a larger number are something like 9-6:30 or so on average. (In District Court, weeks where there's trial or just before the March or September CJRA lists are likely to be busier. In Circuit Court, weeks before OA are likely to be busier.) There are a few clerkships that are notorious for being "two years fit into one" kind of experiences, but these are relatively few and far between and have way more to do with the judge than the particular district/circuit.

+1 (again). I'd probably call 9-5/no weekends unusually light, but the average is way, way below something like biglaw (never mind Koz).

One of my clerkships was generally a 9 to 5 with no weekends. The other was about 45 to 50 hours a week (on rare occasion, more).

[Wild Card]

Not a clerk but thinking about applying. This whole thread is interesting to me insofar as it reveals how much some clerks work in terms of hours. Are crazy hours normal? Are they generally tied to circuit clerkships or district clerkships in places like S.D.N.Y. or D. D.C.? I interned for two judges prior to 2L and all of the clerks worked a strict 9-5 with no weekends so this is all news to me.

It's likely unique to the S.D.N.Y., where each judge handles up to 300-400 cases and you can expect up to 12 hours a day, six days a week. Of course, business hours are 9:30 to 6:30. But those are business hours for biglaw too. Are you going to stop working at 6:30? lol

[polareagle]

Not a clerk but thinking about applying. This whole thread is interesting to me insofar as it reveals how much some clerks work in terms of hours. Are crazy hours normal? Are they generally tied to circuit clerkships or district clerkships in places like S.D.N.Y. or D. D.C.? I interned for two judges prior to 2L and all of the clerks worked a strict 9-5 with no weekends so this is all news to me.

It's likely unique to the S.D.N.Y., where each judge handles up to 300-400 cases and you can expect up to 12 hours a day, six days a week. Of course, business hours are 9:30 to 6:30. But those are business hours for biglaw too. Are you going to stop working at 6:30? lol

It may be true that SDNY judges tend to have longer hours, but again that has more to do with the judges than anything else. I suspect (though have no proof) that it has to do with many of them having been brought up in the toxic facetime culture of New York biglaw.

SDNY is *third* in cases per active judge in the *Second Circuit* (WDNY far outpaces it). Nationally, it doesn't even fall in the top ten. Nearly every district in the 9th and 11th circuits has far more cases per active judge (both filed and terminated). Stats: https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/ ... 0.2020.pdf

[Anonymous User]

Not a clerk but thinking about applying. This whole thread is interesting to me insofar as it reveals how much some clerks work in terms of hours. Are crazy hours normal? Are they generally tied to circuit clerkships or district clerkships in places like S.D.N.Y. or D. D.C.? I interned for two judges prior to 2L and all of the clerks worked a strict 9-5 with no weekends so this is all news to me.

It's likely unique to the S.D.N.Y., where each judge handles up to 300-400 cases and you can expect up to 12 hours a day, six days a week. Of course, business hours are 9:30 to 6:30. But those are business hours for biglaw too. Are you going to stop working at 6:30? lol

It may be true that SDNY judges tend to have longer hours, but again that has more to do with the judges than anything else. I suspect (though have no proof) that it has to do with many of them having been brought up in the toxic facetime culture of New York biglaw.

SDNY is *third* in cases per active judge in the *Second Circuit* (WDNY far outpaces it). Nationally, it doesn't even fall in the top ten. Nearly every district in the 9th and 11th circuits has far more cases per active judge (both filed and terminated). Stats: https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/ ... 0.2020.pdf

Yeah, I think people would be surprised at some of the really busy districts. E.D. Cal., for example, is probably the most overworked district in the country or at least in the top couple.

[LBJ's Hair]

So, here's a FedSoc-sympathetic person's assessment of Justin Walker...

After having read a few opinions and articles of his, I don't necessarily disagree with him but like... he clearly didn't get the DC Circuit gig because he's the best writer/legal thinker of his generation.

There are like, literally dozens of sharper district court judges, academics, gov officials, SCOTUS advocates w/textualist-originalist-whatever priors who would have been better DC Circuit judges. Assume they picked him because he has the credentials, he's a reliable vote, and he knows McConnell. (I'm definitely not alone in this view.)

It's DC Circuit, so I mean, apply. But he seems like ...kind of a hack. Read something he's written, then read like, a Bibas article or opinion. Blech.

(I guess in fairness to Walker there are plenty of hack judges who are perfectly lovely to clerk for.)

[Anonymous User]

So, here's a FedSoc-sympathetic person's assessment of Justin Walker...

After having read a few opinions and articles of his, I don't necessarily disagree with him but like... he clearly didn't get the DC Circuit gig because he's the best writer/legal thinker of his generation.

There are like, literally dozens of sharper district court judges, academics, gov officials, SCOTUS advocates w/textualist-originalist-whatever priors who would have been better DC Circuit judges. Assume they picked him because he has the credentials, he's a reliable vote, and he knows McConnell. (I'm definitely not alone in this view.)

It's DC Circuit, so I mean, apply. But he seems like ...kind of a hack. Read something he's written, then read like, a Bibas article or opinion. Blech.

(I guess in fairness to Walker there are plenty of hack judges who are perfectly lovely to clerk for.)

His academic CV is really shockingly undistinguished for someone with his qualifications. He's 38, only has a couple of decent law review pubs, and has basically never been cited by anyone. And a lot of it's really political-hacky stuff (his two decent pubs are "The Kavanaugh Court and the Schechter-to-Chevron Spectrum: How the New Supreme Court Will Make the Administrative State More Democratically Accountable" and "FBI Independence as a Threat to Civil Liberties: An Analogy to Civilian Control of the Military"--and yes, the latter is exactly what you expect, a post hoc excuse for firing Comey). If he didn't know Mitch McConnell, he would quite possibly be on the path to tenure denial at Louisville Law. A very stark contrast to Bibas, or really any competent conservative legal academic.

[Anonymous User]

So, here's a FedSoc-sympathetic person's assessment of Justin Walker...

After having read a few opinions and articles of his, I don't necessarily disagree with him but like... he clearly didn't get the DC Circuit gig because he's the best writer/legal thinker of his generation.

There are like, literally dozens of sharper district court judges, academics, gov officials, SCOTUS advocates w/textualist-originalist-whatever priors who would have been better DC Circuit judges. Assume they picked him because he has the credentials, he's a reliable vote, and he knows McConnell. (I'm definitely not alone in this view.)

It's DC Circuit, so I mean, apply. But he seems like ...kind of a hack. Read something he's written, then read like, a Bibas article or opinion. Blech.

(I guess in fairness to Walker there are plenty of hack judges who are perfectly lovely to clerk for.)

Earlier anon who commented about his writing a few posts up. I decided not apply to him for this reason, even though I would love to be in DC and a FedSoc person. Couldn't get over that writing. like nails on a chalkboard.

[lavarman84]

So, here's a FedSoc-sympathetic person's assessment of Justin Walker...

After having read a few opinions and articles of his, I don't necessarily disagree with him but like... he clearly didn't get the DC Circuit gig because he's the best writer/legal thinker of his generation.

There are like, literally dozens of sharper district court judges, academics, gov officials, SCOTUS advocates w/textualist-originalist-whatever priors who would have been better DC Circuit judges. Assume they picked him because he has the credentials, he's a reliable vote, and he knows McConnell. (I'm definitely not alone in this view.)

It's DC Circuit, so I mean, apply. But he seems like ...kind of a hack. Read something he's written, then read like, a Bibas article or opinion. Blech.

(I guess in fairness to Walker there are plenty of hack judges who are perfectly lovely to clerk for.)

Can't disagree with any of this. FWIW, I've heard he's a nice person. But I couldn't see myself writing what he seems to want in controversial cases. It has nothing to do with my political leanings. I'm not a conservative, but I clerked for a conservative judge and had no issues writing conservative opinions. I just feel like that writing style doesn't represent the judiciary well. It would bother me. But I'm sure there are plenty of others happy to do it. And yes, you're right about McConnell being his ticket to where he is (not that there's something wrong with that).

[polareagle]

Can't disagree with any of this. FWIW, I've heard he's a nice person. But I couldn't see myself writing what he seems to want in controversial cases. It has nothing to do with my political leanings. I'm not a conservative, but I clerked for a conservative judge and had no issues writing conservative opinions. I just feel like that writing style doesn't represent the judiciary well. It would bother me. But I'm sure there are plenty of others happy to do it. And yes, you're right about McConnell being his ticket to where he is (not that there's something wrong with that).

It is definitely a tried and true path to the judiciary, but I can't help but feel like this was a bit of a misfire. Walker's not a district court judge, so he *has* to persuade colleagues to get anything done. And the D.C. Circuit seems to have gotten over its historic reluctance to go en banc for Judge Rao, and I suspect Judge Walker may face the same. By contrast, Judge Katsas has definitely been able to put together majorities without drawing an en banc, and he's far from liberal.

[Anonymous User]

Not a clerk but thinking about applying. This whole thread is interesting to me insofar as it reveals how much some clerks work in terms of hours. Are crazy hours normal? Are they generally tied to circuit clerkships or district clerkships in places like S.D.N.Y. or D. D.C.? I interned for two judges prior to 2L and all of the clerks worked a strict 9-5 with no weekends so this is all news to me.

It's likely unique to the S.D.N.Y., where each judge handles up to 300-400 cases and you can expect up to 12 hours a day, six days a week. Of course, business hours are 9:30 to 6:30. But those are business hours for biglaw too. Are you going to stop working at 6:30? lol

It's not the docket. It's how the judge works his or her clerks and handles cases. I clerked for a DJ with an extraordinarily heavy docket and the job was 9-6. Even then, I could have left earlier on most days.