Let's talk 2nd Circuit! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Has Sullivan interviewed yet? How grade sensitive is he. I’m top 30% at MVP

You’re not really competitive, sorry.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have info on how competitive Jacobs is grade-wise since going senior? Also wondering if anyone has an idea of when he'd open applications, or if he's looking to step down soon.

He’s still one of the more selective Second Circuit judges, though not the absolute most selective. He’s still active and at the top of his game. Big personality.

[Anonymous User]

Has Sullivan interviewed yet? How grade sensitive is he. I’m top 30% at MVP

You’re not really competitive, sorry.

Are there any second circuit judges that I’d be competitive for? Top 30% MVP on Law Review and prior district clerkship

[Anonymous User]

The Second Circuit is really picky. It depends where the prior clerkship was and how connected your district judge was, but top 30% (let’s say a 3.7?) from MVP really isn’t competitive for CA2 unless you’re a URM applying for one of the Chambers that places a strong emphasis on diversity (Lohier, Lee, Perez, Chin). Sullivan is especially grade picky.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Be careful relying on second-hand rumors. Several of Menashi’s recent hires were #1 in their law school classes, and he’s the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting a clerkship with him without strong qualifications.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

[Anonymous User]

The Second Circuit is really picky. It depends where the prior clerkship was and how connected your district judge was, but top 30% (let’s say a 3.7?) from MVP really isn’t competitive for CA2 unless you’re a URM applying for one of the Chambers that places a strong emphasis on diversity (Lohier, Lee, Perez, Chin). Sullivan is especially grade picky.

I know a handful of people who’ve had interviews with RJS who were cum laude graduates of CCN schools, so roughly top 30%. Their grades may have dropped by their third year, but they were certainly not top of their class/LR/Moot Court types. So, not a far cry.

[Anonymous User]

The Second Circuit is really picky. It depends where the prior clerkship was and how connected your district judge was, but top 30% (let’s say a 3.7?) from MVP really isn’t competitive for CA2 unless you’re a URM applying for one of the Chambers that places a strong emphasis on diversity (Lohier, Lee, Perez, Chin). Sullivan is especially grade picky.

Even for a URM, Lohier would never consider top 30% at MVP. My understanding is that he does not hire outside of YSHCCN.

[Anonymous User]

The Second Circuit is really picky. It depends where the prior clerkship was and how connected your district judge was, but top 30% (let’s say a 3.7?) from MVP really isn’t competitive for CA2 unless you’re a URM applying for one of the Chambers that places a strong emphasis on diversity (Lohier, Lee, Perez, Chin). Sullivan is especially grade picky.

Even for a URM, Lohier would never consider top 30% at MVP. My understanding is that he does not hire outside of YSHCCN.

Seconded. Lohier is probably the most grade-conscious judge on CA2.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Be careful relying on second-hand rumors. Several of Menashi’s recent hires were #1 in their law school classes, and he’s the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting a clerkship with him without strong qualifications.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

[Anonymous User]

Has Bianco hired?

[Anonymous User]

Has Bianco hired?

Only remaining spots are for 2028

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

Which judges do SJM clerks often clerk for in addition to SJM? I've seen a Grant/Menashi combo and Menashi/district court combos. Any other COA judges?

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

Which judges do SJM clerks often clerk for in addition to SJM? I've seen a Grant/Menashi combo and Menashi/district court combos. Any other COA judges?

Nichols (DDC), Woods (SDNY), Kovner (EDNY), Branch (CA11), Batts (SDNY)

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

Which judges do SJM clerks often clerk for in addition to SJM? I've seen a Grant/Menashi combo and Menashi/district court combos. Any other COA judges?

Nichols (DDC), Woods (SDNY), Kovner (EDNY), Branch (CA11), Batts (SDNY)

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

Which judges do SJM clerks often clerk for in addition to SJM? I've seen a Grant/Menashi combo and Menashi/district court combos. Any other COA judges?

Nichols (DDC), Woods (SDNY), Kovner (EDNY), Branch (CA11), Batts (SDNY)

Also Rao (CADC), Sutton (CA6), Porter (CA3), and Nichols (DDC). SJM is incredibly generous about helping with second clerkships. He regularly makes phone calls to promote his clerks to other judges and has a deep Rolodex, which isn’t surprising given how long he’s been active in conservative circles and his strong Administration connections.