Let's talk 2nd Circuit! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Has Sullivan interviewed yet? How grade sensitive is he. I’m top 30% at MVP

You’re not really competitive, sorry.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have info on how competitive Jacobs is grade-wise since going senior? Also wondering if anyone has an idea of when he'd open applications, or if he's looking to step down soon.

He’s still one of the more selective Second Circuit judges, though not the absolute most selective. He’s still active and at the top of his game. Big personality.

[Anonymous User]

Has Sullivan interviewed yet? How grade sensitive is he. I’m top 30% at MVP

You’re not really competitive, sorry.

Are there any second circuit judges that I’d be competitive for? Top 30% MVP on Law Review and prior district clerkship

[Anonymous User]

The Second Circuit is really picky. It depends where the prior clerkship was and how connected your district judge was, but top 30% (let’s say a 3.7?) from MVP really isn’t competitive for CA2 unless you’re a URM applying for one of the Chambers that places a strong emphasis on diversity (Lohier, Lee, Perez, Chin). Sullivan is especially grade picky.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Be careful relying on second-hand rumors. Several of Menashi’s recent hires were #1 in their law school classes, and he’s the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting a clerkship with him without strong qualifications.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

[Anonymous User]

The Second Circuit is really picky. It depends where the prior clerkship was and how connected your district judge was, but top 30% (let’s say a 3.7?) from MVP really isn’t competitive for CA2 unless you’re a URM applying for one of the Chambers that places a strong emphasis on diversity (Lohier, Lee, Perez, Chin). Sullivan is especially grade picky.

I know a handful of people who’ve had interviews with RJS who were cum laude graduates of CCN schools, so roughly top 30%. Their grades may have dropped by their third year, but they were certainly not top of their class/LR/Moot Court types. So, not a far cry.

[Anonymous User]

The Second Circuit is really picky. It depends where the prior clerkship was and how connected your district judge was, but top 30% (let’s say a 3.7?) from MVP really isn’t competitive for CA2 unless you’re a URM applying for one of the Chambers that places a strong emphasis on diversity (Lohier, Lee, Perez, Chin). Sullivan is especially grade picky.

Even for a URM, Lohier would never consider top 30% at MVP. My understanding is that he does not hire outside of YSHCCN.

[Anonymous User]

The Second Circuit is really picky. It depends where the prior clerkship was and how connected your district judge was, but top 30% (let’s say a 3.7?) from MVP really isn’t competitive for CA2 unless you’re a URM applying for one of the Chambers that places a strong emphasis on diversity (Lohier, Lee, Perez, Chin). Sullivan is especially grade picky.

Even for a URM, Lohier would never consider top 30% at MVP. My understanding is that he does not hire outside of YSHCCN.

Seconded. Lohier is probably the most grade-conscious judge on CA2.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Be careful relying on second-hand rumors. Several of Menashi’s recent hires were #1 in their law school classes, and he’s the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting a clerkship with him without strong qualifications.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

[Anonymous User]

Has Bianco hired?

[Anonymous User]

Has Bianco hired?

Only remaining spots are for 2028

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

Which judges do SJM clerks often clerk for in addition to SJM? I've seen a Grant/Menashi combo and Menashi/district court combos. Any other COA judges?

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

Which judges do SJM clerks often clerk for in addition to SJM? I've seen a Grant/Menashi combo and Menashi/district court combos. Any other COA judges?

Nichols (DDC), Woods (SDNY), Kovner (EDNY), Branch (CA11), Batts (SDNY)

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

Which judges do SJM clerks often clerk for in addition to SJM? I've seen a Grant/Menashi combo and Menashi/district court combos. Any other COA judges?

Nichols (DDC), Woods (SDNY), Kovner (EDNY), Branch (CA11), Batts (SDNY)

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

Which judges do SJM clerks often clerk for in addition to SJM? I've seen a Grant/Menashi combo and Menashi/district court combos. Any other COA judges?

Nichols (DDC), Woods (SDNY), Kovner (EDNY), Branch (CA11), Batts (SDNY)

Also Rao (CADC), Sutton (CA6), Porter (CA3), and Nichols (DDC). SJM is incredibly generous about helping with second clerkships. He regularly makes phone calls to promote his clerks to other judges and has a deep Rolodex, which isn’t surprising given how long he’s been active in conservative circles and his strong Administration connections.

[Anonymous User]

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

Which judges do SJM clerks often clerk for in addition to SJM? I've seen a Grant/Menashi combo and Menashi/district court combos. Any other COA judges?

Nichols (DDC), Woods (SDNY), Kovner (EDNY), Branch (CA11), Batts (SDNY)

Also Rao (CADC), Sutton (CA6), Porter (CA3), and Nichols (DDC). SJM is incredibly generous about helping with second clerkships. He regularly makes phone calls to promote his clerks to other judges and has a deep Rolodex, which isn’t surprising given how long he’s been active in conservative circles and his strong Administration connections.

Different anon. Based on this list, everyone talking about Menashi clerks' "lack of qualifications" is totally off-base and full of crap, because several of the judges here are quite picky in their hiring.

[Anonymous User]

Different poster. In the time I was around Thurgood Marshall and regularly interacted with clerks there, there were two Menashi clerks who were right-wing Twitter personalities, one from a T50, one from a T20, both without honors or maybe cum laude iirc. And then he also had a clerk who got SCOTUS. Mixed bag. He also used to just tell you if you talked to him about clerk hiring that he primarily cared about ideological fit and hired differently (eg sometimes significantly later) than other judges as a result. Possible all of these things have changed for his hiring since then, but that’s what people are referring to.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard similar sentiments. His clerks don’t have the same qualifications as other CA2 judges and are picked for ideological reasons. His opinions tend to be ideological in nature as well. The NYC USAOs are above partisanship and don’t want political AUSAs. Almost all of the AUSAs who clerked on SCOTUS were for Roberts with a few for Sotomayor and Kavanagh. No ex Thomas clerks for instance.

Careful taking advice from keyboard jockeys trading in rumors, not facts. Several recent SJM clerks were #1 in their class and he's the top feeder judge on CA2 (four clerks in five years) for a reason. Good luck getting an SJM clerkship without strong qualifications.

The only thing "ideological" here is Anonymous User's ludicrous suggestion that SDNY and EDNY won't hire Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Barrett clerks to avoid "partisanship." The simple truth is that those Justices' clerks pursue career options elsewhere, not that the NYC USAOs are hiring from Sotomayor (very non-political) but not Alito.

I don't doubt that Menashi's clerks are well credentialed, but isn't the reason that "he's the top feeder judge on CA2" that he's by far the most conservative judge on the circuit (a view that a friend who clerked for Menashi backed up) and it's a 6-3 court? It's not particularly shocking that he's the most prolific feeder on the circuit when the liberal powerhouses on the circuit (Nathan? Lohier?) have way fewer judges to feed to, and AFAIK, of the other conservatives on the circuit (Sullivan, Raggi, Livingston, Bianco, Park), at least three or four hire non-ideologically and are thus making no effort to position themselves as feeders.

Menashi hires some clerks with great resumes and some clerks with resumes that would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships—he picks for different metrics. Not going to pick on any individual clerks but this is pretty obvious if you have any familiarity with his hiring.

Agree that the others tend not to hire in a way calculated to maximize feeding, even if they feed some and hire some clerks likely to go to SCOTUS. E.g. Livingston has long fed some but she hires non-ideologically and on-plan or even later. Park is probably most similar to Menashi but still isn’t that close, with a very strong grades filter and a pretty weak ideology filter.

What's "pretty obvious" is that you have no familiarity with SJM's hiring process, let alone the requisite insider knowledge (i.e., access to resumes, transcripts, writing samples, etc.) to make sweeping statements about his clerks' credentials.

More than half of his clerks—the ones you assert "would not ordinarily be competitive even for district court clerkships"—clerked for another federal court (many at the appellate level). So at least a dozen federal judges disagree with you. The rest are also highly accomplished, including three that received SCOTUS interviews.

If applicants take one thing from this discussion, it should be that Menashi Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at the Second Circuit.

Which judges do SJM clerks often clerk for in addition to SJM? I've seen a Grant/Menashi combo and Menashi/district court combos. Any other COA judges?

Nichols (DDC), Woods (SDNY), Kovner (EDNY), Branch (CA11), Batts (SDNY)

Batts passed away very shortly after Menashi was appointed. Also makes no sense ideologically. I can see a Kovner-Menashi pairing but not a Batts-Menashi

[Anonymous User]

Different poster. In the time I was around Thurgood Marshall and regularly interacted with clerks there, there were two Menashi clerks who were right-wing Twitter personalities, one from a T50, one from a T20, both without honors or maybe cum laude iirc. And then he also had a clerk who got SCOTUS. Mixed bag. He also used to just tell you if you talked to him about clerk hiring that he primarily cared about ideological fit and hired differently (eg sometimes significantly later) than other judges as a result. Possible all of these things have changed for his hiring since then, but that’s what people are referring to.

What a load of garbage. "Both without honors or maybe cum laude iirc"? You don't recall correctly. The "T50" clerk graduated magna cum laude near the very top of his class, clerked earlier in his career for another federal appellate judge, served at the highest levels in multiple positions at DOJ, and is one of the most successful conservative litigators in the entire country. He recently argued two cases at SCOTUS, not to mention dozens of circuit appeals over the past few years. I'd be surprised if Anonymous User can claim any one of those accolades, let alone the entire list.

Anybody familiar with SJM's clerk hiring also knows that Anonymous User is outright lying about a supposed conversation with SJM (which clearly never happened). SJM doesn't hire "significantly later" than other judges; he hires several years out and usually is full before applications come in through the plan.

[Anonymous User]

You are not describing the same person I am. if you actually do not know who I am referring to, you are effectively outing yourself as a law student (as a clerk would surely be aware of all of his past clerks). I also said *sometimes* significantly later.

[Anonymous User]

You are not describing the same person I am. if you actually do not know who I am referring to, you are effectively outing yourself as a law student (as a clerk would surely be aware of all of his past clerks). I also said *sometimes* significantly later.

You're not describing any person. SJM has hired only five times outside the T20, only one of those hires (the one I described) could fairly be called a "Twitter personality," and the four others have similar impeccable credentials (at least magna and other clerkships).

While you were making up facts on an anonymous forum, an SJM clerk who was "around Thurgood Marshall" only a year before you was being named Ohio's 12th Solicitor General. Make of that what you will.

[Anonymous User]

Who is the best judge to clerk for in SDNY?

[Anonymous User]

Who is the best judge to clerk for in SDNY?

"Best" is fairly subjective and depends on what you are looking for. But generally-speaking if you are looking for a non fedsoc judge from what I have heard Oetken would probably be the favorite; seems like he manages clerk loads the best, is a great boss, very smart, well-connected, and is a fantastic writer. Engelmayer and Carter are probably tied for a very close second place. After that, Abrams would probably come in third. But, it is all subjective, depends on the person, and may vary from year to year--even among the ordering of those four. That said, my guess is that most people would be very, very happy clerking any of those four.

Of course, not as sure what the more conservative judges are like. If you are looking for a more conservative judge you may be happier clerking for other appointees given they will be more tapped into the fedsoc pipeline for your career long term. Really just depends on what you are looking for.

[Anonymous User]

Tough to pick just one. People seem to
really like clerking for Rakoff, Engelmayer, Abrams, Oetken, Furman, Koeltl and Cote (off the top of my head).