Best and worst judges to clerk for Forum

[Anonymous User]

Adding to the consensus here that the judge, and not the court, determines how busy you'll be. I clerked on the 9th, which has one of the highest per-judge caseloads of any circuit, at a time when there were several vacancies, for a judge who's considered about average on the circuit in terms of how hard he works his clerks. Most weeks were 9-6, the weeks before sittings (once every two months) may have been closer to 9-8, sitting weeks were incredibly chill, and I worked two weekends the entire clerkship (one of which was only because I had let myself get behind, and one of which was an actual fire drill). Another active circuit judge in our courthouse worked their clerks significantly harder--those clerks' cars were there when we showed up in the morning and still there when we left.

[Anonymous User]

If EDNY clerks are, indeed, regularly working around the clock, or whatever people are claiming, then more of y'all should clerk back home in Florida or Illinois or wherever you grew up/went to college/whatever. I clerked for a district court and then COA in a big Texas city. Both were usually 9-5 gigs, with the exception of a few very busy weeks (trial, etc.). If you are efficient and plan ahead, you can mostly avoid six month list fires (assuming the clerk before you wasn't way behind, which would make for a busy start to your clerkship). And COA gigs are more laid back, so it's pretty easy to get your work done on a 9-5 schedule (with the exception of the few times you have en banc and a panel sitting in the same month).

I'm guessing that some of the "everyone in that district works SO MUCH" is an exaggeration. If it's not, though, then there are places in major metropolitan areas outside of New York where you can do interesting work for nice judges and have very chill hours.

It is absolutely false that all non-senior EDNY judges force their clerks to work the same number of hours and that should not be credited. Judge Brodie is know to be particularly demanding. There are similar differences in SDNY that should not be ignored.

I'm not sure if this person is directing their last comment towards my point above about how a lot of the difference is based on how much your judge cares about the list (which I note again I made the distinction). And as I pointed out above, much of the difference in hours is based on who are expected to work in chambers and those who are not. And again as I pointed out, some judges manipulate their lists to do less.

If this was directed at me, former EDNY clerk (may or may not have been a clerk in the chambers at issue). You can decide on that issue yourself.

I'm the anon who posted about the 10-14 hour days. I clerked in EDNY so, no, I'm not trying to push competitors out of the way or whatever. As other people have said, I thought it was worth noting because her facetime requirement is so notably high compared with other EDNY judges, except for maybe Cogan.

Other (but not all) chambers also work very hard, and my judge took the list extremely seriously, but we weren't REQUIRED to be at the office for a dozen or more hours at a time (with rare exception for trials or the like). Many chambers have the ethos that clerks come in for a normal workday (9-6/7/8 or whatever) and if that isn't sufficient time to get your list done, you work on it at home. But there is a huge difference (mentally and physically) to say "oh, I'll work on this opinion for a few hours at home tonight or on the weekends so I can keep on top of my list and get it done" versus "I'm going out for 10 minutes to get my 10th cup of coffee at 9pm on a Saturday so I can make sure I get back to chambers because the judge requires that I be there until the list is done." I think it's a distinction worth noting.

[Anonymous User]

If EDNY clerks are, indeed, regularly working around the clock, or whatever people are claiming, then more of y'all should clerk back home in Florida or Illinois or wherever you grew up/went to college/whatever. I clerked for a district court and then COA in a big Texas city. Both were usually 9-5 gigs, with the exception of a few very busy weeks (trial, etc.). If you are efficient and plan ahead, you can mostly avoid six month list fires (assuming the clerk before you wasn't way behind, which would make for a busy start to your clerkship). And COA gigs are more laid back, so it's pretty easy to get your work done on a 9-5 schedule (with the exception of the few times you have en banc and a panel sitting in the same month).

I'm guessing that some of the "everyone in that district works SO MUCH" is an exaggeration. If it's not, though, then there are places in major metropolitan areas outside of New York where you can do interesting work for nice judges and have very chill hours.

It is absolutely false that all non-senior EDNY judges force their clerks to work the same number of hours and that should not be credited. Judge Brodie is know to be particularly demanding. There are similar differences in SDNY that should not be ignored.

I'm not sure if this person is directing their last comment towards my point above about how a lot of the difference is based on how much your judge cares about the list (which I note again I made the distinction). And as I pointed out above, much of the difference in hours is based on who are expected to work in chambers and those who are not. And again as I pointed out, some judges manipulate their lists to do less.

If this was directed at me, former EDNY clerk (may or may not have been a clerk in the chambers at issue). You can decide on that issue yourself.

I'm the anon who posted about the 10-14 hour days. I clerked in EDNY so, no, I'm not trying to push competitors out of the way or whatever. As other people have said, I thought it was worth noting because her facetime requirement is so notably high compared with other EDNY judges, except for maybe Cogan.

Other (but not all) chambers also work very hard, and my judge took the list extremely seriously, but we weren't REQUIRED to be at the office for a dozen or more hours at a time (with rare exception for trials or the like). Many chambers have the ethos that clerks come in for a normal workday (9-6/7/8 or whatever) and if that isn't sufficient time to get your list done, you work on it at home. But there is a huge difference (mentally and physically) to say "oh, I'll work on this opinion for a few hours at home tonight or on the weekends so I can keep on top of my list and get it done" versus "I'm going out for 10 minutes to get my 10th cup of coffee at 9pm on a Saturday so I can make sure I get back to chambers because the judge requires that I be there until the list is done." I think it's a distinction worth noting.

Part of the issue is that there are so many different people replying anonymously. But I believe you are responding to multiple people. Case in point, I did not say anything about "push[ing] competitors out." It seems much of your response is tainted with your perception of whoever said that earlier.

Also, again, I already noted the distinction you seem to want to highlight. The added detail about the added fatigue that comes with facetime doesn't conflict with anything I wrote.

One thing I'll add---this is for all the kids who are thinking of clerking. I clerked at multiple federal levels. To do the job correctly, unfortunately, it should consume you. There are a lot of errors at every level.

[nixy]

By “consume you,” do you mean you should be working or thinking about working 24/7? Because if so, that is absolutely chambers-specific. It is absolutely possible to be a good clerk without the work “consuming” you. Obviously not in every chambers - if your judge wants you to be consumed by work, that’s what you need to do - but not all judges are like that.

[Anonymous User]

Future SDNY clerk. The hours are totally judge-dependent. I interviewed with multiple judges there and, unless they were hiding the ball, they were pretty forthright about hours. My judge has a high face-time requirement and hours are 9am-9pm M-F with no weekend work. Others had hours that were more like 9am-7pm, with occasional weekends for firedrills.

[Anon-non-anon]

One thing I'll add---this is for all the kids who are thinking of clerking. I clerked at multiple federal levels. To do the job correctly, unfortunately, it should consume you. There are a lot of errors at every level.

Uhhhhh this is a strange attitude and really unhealthy. You can work really hard, pay close attention, and do great work without letting a job "consume you." People (that last) in the most serious jobs know how to turn it off and on at the right times. Clerking is serious, but it's not like you're an ER doctor. Even ER doctors (that last/don't hate life) switch it off when they go home, even though they could prevent one more error by working another 12 hours. It just doesn't work in the long run, or even over a single year.

In any event, having this type of attitude is likely to produce errors or waste a lot of time due to stressing about the wrong things. Some things matter, some things don't, your job shouldn't "consume you" except in limited time periods. If you're consumed by the day-to-day, you won't be able to ramp up when things really need that type of attention.

End of mental health rant.

[lavarman84]

One thing I'll add---this is for all the kids who are thinking of clerking. I clerked at multiple federal levels. To do the job correctly, unfortunately, it should consume you. There are a lot of errors at every level.

I think that's a bit overstated. Like anything else, the job will be easier and you will be better at it if you find it interesting and are passionate about it. But it doesn't need to consume you. Yeah, if you don't enjoy thinking deeply about legal issues, clerking probably isn't your jam (especially not COA clerking). But I clerked on the D. Ct. and COA levels and had a great work-life balance on both.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

Beyond brilliant. Underrated in CA2. If you want a sense of his personality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQJGBEXUyjs

[mjb447]

+1 for you should definitely take clerking seriously and try to get as much as you can out of it, but in most chambers it shouldn't "consume" you. (I also clerked at multiple federal levels, FWIW.)

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

Brilliant judge and a lovely person. One of the very best clerkships on CA2. (I clerked for a different judge on the court.)

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

Brilliant judge and a lovely person. One of the very best clerkships on CA2. (I clerked for a different judge on the court.)

Great to hear! Do you know how active he is these days? I know he went senior pretty young
and apparently he’s still hiring 3 clerks, so I imagine it’s a substantial caseload, but I’d like to figure that out before I start trying to call in favors.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

I took a class from Gerry Lynch in law school and he was incredible. Great guy. Brilliant but also very nice. If I hadn’t been targeting the west coast, he would have been one of my top choices.

[Anonymous User]

Delete

[Anonymous User]

+1 for you should definitely take clerking seriously and try to get as much as you can out of it, but in most chambers it shouldn't "consume" you. (I also clerked at multiple federal levels, FWIW.)

Fully agree. I worked hard and sometimes stressed over hard cases/worried that I got something wrong, but I was never "consumed" by my work and tried hard not to take it home unless necessary.

[mjb447]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

Beyond brilliant. Underrated in CA2. If you want a sense of his personality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQJGBEXUyjs

A few years old now, but also https://abovethelaw.com/2009/11/reflect ... rk-hiring/

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

Took a small section class with him, very very long winded but generally kind. He is rather elitist and has very high expectations( but I don't know if that is just typical). He gave out less A's than the curve dictates because he was disasitifed with the classes performance as a whole and I'm still bitter about it haha. We visited his chambers and met his clerks they all seemed like the kind, quiet, intellectual hard worker types. If I remember correctly he said he and his clerks going back and forth a lot on drafts and he likes to argue with them.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

Took a small section class with him, very very long winded but generally kind. He is rather elitist and has very high expectations( but I don't know if that is just typical). He gave out less A's than the curve dictates because he was disasitifed with the classes performance as a whole and I'm still bitter about it haha. We visited his chambers and met his clerks they all seemed like the kind, quiet, intellectual hard worker types. If I remember correctly he said he and his clerks going back and forth a lot on drafts and he likes to argue with them.

This definitely tracks. He's known to be kind of a grade snob. He also (still) talks about how his law school GPA is the highest ever at his school. So take that for what it's worth in terms of his outlook/priorities. (And I don't mean to denigrate. There's an argument that at least he's open and transparent about it so you know what you're up against, as opposed to judges who are just as elitist/grade snobby but are opaque about it and so let you think that as a candidate you might have a chance when you really don't.)

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

Took a small section class with him, very very long winded but generally kind. He is rather elitist and has very high expectations( but I don't know if that is just typical). He gave out less A's than the curve dictates because he was disasitifed with the classes performance as a whole and I'm still bitter about it haha. We visited his chambers and met his clerks they all seemed like the kind, quiet, intellectual hard worker types. If I remember correctly he said he and his clerks going back and forth a lot on drafts and he likes to argue with them.

This definitely tracks. He's known to be kind of a grade snob. He also (still) talks about how his law school GPA is the highest ever at his school. So take that for what it's worth in terms of his outlook/priorities. (And I don't mean to denigrate. There's an argument that at least he's open and transparent about it so you know what you're up against, as opposed to judges who are just as elitist/grade snobby but are opaque about it and so let you think that as a candidate you might have a chance when you really don't.)

The real question for me is, is he the kind of grade snob who's snobbing almost exclusively for HYS, or is he satisfied with snob-worthy grades from a CCN?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

Took a small section class with him, very very long winded but generally kind. He is rather elitist and has very high expectations( but I don't know if that is just typical). He gave out less A's than the curve dictates because he was disasitifed with the classes performance as a whole and I'm still bitter about it haha. We visited his chambers and met his clerks they all seemed like the kind, quiet, intellectual hard worker types. If I remember correctly he said he and his clerks going back and forth a lot on drafts and he likes to argue with them.

This definitely tracks. He's known to be kind of a grade snob. He also (still) talks about how his law school GPA is the highest ever at his school. So take that for what it's worth in terms of his outlook/priorities. (And I don't mean to denigrate. There's an argument that at least he's open and transparent about it so you know what you're up against, as opposed to judges who are just as elitist/grade snobby but are opaque about it and so let you think that as a candidate you might have a chance when you really don't.)

The real question for me is, is he the kind of grade snob who's snobbing almost exclusively for HYS, or is he satisfied with snob-worthy grades from a CCN?

Might depend on which CCN. He basically hires at least one person from CLS every year, but dunno about the others.

[Anonymous User]

[Duplicate Post]

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

Brilliant judge and a lovely person. One of the very best clerkships on CA2. (I clerked for a different judge on the court.)

Great to hear! Do you know how active he is these days? I know he went senior pretty young
and apparently he’s still hiring 3 clerks, so I imagine it’s a substantial caseload, but I’d like to figure that out before I start trying to call in favors.

My understanding is he still has a very substantial caseload. When I was clerking (not long ago and after he went senior), he was basically functioning as an active judge.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any info on what it's like to clerk for Gerry Lynch? He just posted for 2022 and I'm debating whether it's worth expending some ask-a-prof-to-call capital.

Took a small section class with him, very very long winded but generally kind. He is rather elitist and has very high expectations( but I don't know if that is just typical). He gave out less A's than the curve dictates because he was disasitifed with the classes performance as a whole and I'm still bitter about it haha. We visited his chambers and met his clerks they all seemed like the kind, quiet, intellectual hard worker types. If I remember correctly he said he and his clerks going back and forth a lot on drafts and he likes to argue with them.

This definitely tracks. He's known to be kind of a grade snob. He also (still) talks about how his law school GPA is the highest ever at his school. So take that for what it's worth in terms of his outlook/priorities. (And I don't mean to denigrate. There's an argument that at least he's open and transparent about it so you know what you're up against, as opposed to judges who are just as elitist/grade snobby but are opaque about it and so let you think that as a candidate you might have a chance when you really don't.)

The real question for me is, is he the kind of grade snob who's snobbing almost exclusively for HYS, or is he satisfied with snob-worthy grades from a CCN?

Might depend on CCN. He basically hires at least one person from CLS every year, but dunno about the others.

Lynch makes it sound like he is more of a prestige snob than he actually is. He actually hired from all of CCN for his clerks this term, and his other clerk went to Minnesota (from an ERW fellowship). He cares about grades, work quality, and calls from people he trusts.

[Anonymous User]

Lynch makes it sound like he is more of a prestige snob than he actually is. He actually hired from all of CCN for his clerks this term, and his other clerk went to Minnesota (from an ERW fellowship). He cares about grades, work quality, and calls from people he trusts.

It's the last bit of the last sentence that swallows the rest of it. The sentiment the post expresses kind of annoys me because it gives students a false sense of hope. It's not the case that what Lynch cares about are grades, work quality, and calls because historically he's hired people from HYS (and maybe CCN) who almost certainly have lower grades and lower work quality than the absolute top students at, say, Rutgers or Iowa or Mizzou or whatever.

The top .0001% of those students at Mizzou would be more qualified than the top 10% at HYS and get these uber-prestigious CA2 clerkships if the metrics were truly grades and work quality and calls from professors; it's more accurate to say Lynch (among others of course) cares about grades, work, and calls from a fixed, preset band of schools. It's prestige snobbery masquerading as something else. I don't have a problem with his criteria, just sort of annoying when it's masked as something it's not.

[Anonymous User]

By “consume you,” do you mean you should be working or thinking about working 24/7? Because if so, that is absolutely chambers-specific. It is absolutely possible to be a good clerk without the work “consuming” you. Obviously not in every chambers - if your judge wants you to be consumed by work, that’s what you need to do - but not all judges are like that.

I think you read into what I said what you wanted to talk about. As an initial matter, I never said this is what "x" judge expects. It's a little odd interpretation of what I wrote (also as I noted, I have clerked in multiple chambers across multiple levels).

And we can agree to disagree as far as what it means to do the job well. I see you view what it means to do the job well as being a "good" clerk. Even a "good" (let's say above average) clerk makes a lot of mistakes. And more than a few clerks don't take their jobs seriously. What I meant by "consume" is that it has to be the main priority in your life, and you have to be willing to make sacrifices to get it done right (every situation is of course different, including the amount of work). I have seen more than my share of "good" clerks, particularly those who categorized themselves as such, screw up even fundamental theories of law. And in the end, it's the parties and often times the larger public who have to suffer through a clerk's mistakes.