2023-2024 Clerkship Application Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

So if I haven't gotten an interview from on plan judges yet, it's prob reasonable to losing hope abt now, right?

Wait till the end of this week, then... probably yeah.

[Anonymous User]

There's grounds to call an unofficial process that's external to the actual clerkship application yet impacts students' prospects problematic. And judges rely on proxies because of the volume of applicants. Getting rid of the plan won't do away with that.

I don't mind the emphasis on recommenders. Your professional life will always revolve around trying to impress important people so they do favors for you. But I do wish the schools would make it really clear on Day 1 that students need to be finding them. As it is, a lot of students don't realize until it's too late.

[Anonymous User]

There's grounds to call an unofficial process that's external to the actual clerkship application yet impacts students' prospects problematic. And judges rely on proxies because of the volume of applicants. Getting rid of the plan won't do away with that.

I don't mind the emphasis on recommenders. Your professional life will always revolve around trying to impress important people so they do favors for you. But I do wish the schools would make it really clear on Day 1 that students need to be finding them. As it is, a lot of students don't realize until it's too late.

haha whered you get that picture of me. But when you have people getting off the books interviews because their college roommate's dad is a circuit judge or their moms best friend is the judge's wife, like really, how much prep can anyone do

[Anonymous User]

There's grounds to call an unofficial process that's external to the actual clerkship application yet impacts students' prospects problematic. And judges rely on proxies because of the volume of applicants. Getting rid of the plan won't do away with that.

I don't mind the emphasis on recommenders. Your professional life will always revolve around trying to impress important people so they do favors for you. But I do wish the schools would make it really clear on Day 1 that students need to be finding them. As it is, a lot of students don't realize until it's too late.

haha whered you get that picture of me. But when you have people getting off the books interviews because their college roommate's dad is a circuit judge or their moms best friend is the judge's wife, like really, how much prep can anyone do

Remember talking to an alumni about career advice and getting involved in a lawyer role in administrative agencies and they were talking about the importance of persistence and starting from the bottom and I was really inspired by their started from the "relative" bottom story only to learn about a one month later that said person's parent was a United States Senator.

[Anonymous User]

There's grounds to call an unofficial process that's external to the actual clerkship application yet impacts students' prospects problematic. And judges rely on proxies because of the volume of applicants. Getting rid of the plan won't do away with that.

I don't mind the emphasis on recommenders. Your professional life will always revolve around trying to impress important people so they do favors for you. But I do wish the schools would make it really clear on Day 1 that students need to be finding them. As it is, a lot of students don't realize until it's too late.

haha whered you get that picture of me. But when you have people getting off the books interviews because their college roommate's dad is a circuit judge or their moms best friend is the judge's wife, like really, how much prep can anyone do

Remember talking to an alumni about career advice and getting involved in a lawyer role in administrative agencies and they were talking about the importance of persistence and starting from the bottom and I was really inspired by their started from the "relative" bottom story only to learn about a one month later that said person's parent was a United States Senator.

[Anonymous User]

There's grounds to call an unofficial process that's external to the actual clerkship application yet impacts students' prospects problematic. And judges rely on proxies because of the volume of applicants. Getting rid of the plan won't do away with that.

I don't mind the emphasis on recommenders. Your professional life will always revolve around trying to impress important people so they do favors for you. But I do wish the schools would make it really clear on Day 1 that students need to be finding them. As it is, a lot of students don't realize until it's too late.

haha whered you get that picture of me. But when you have people getting off the books interviews because their college roommate's dad is a circuit judge or their moms best friend is the judge's wife, like really, how much prep can anyone do

Remember talking to an alumni about career advice and getting involved in a lawyer role in administrative agencies and they were talking about the importance of persistence and starting from the bottom and I was really inspired by their started from the "relative" bottom story only to learn about a one month later that said person's parent was a United States Senator.

This reminds me of Columbia Law highlighting the rigorous trials the son of a baseball team owner had to undertake to make it in Sports Law: https://www.law.columbia.edu/news/archi ... eenberg-11

[Anonymous User]

There's grounds to call an unofficial process that's external to the actual clerkship application yet impacts students' prospects problematic. And judges rely on proxies because of the volume of applicants. Getting rid of the plan won't do away with that.

I don't mind the emphasis on recommenders. Your professional life will always revolve around trying to impress important people so they do favors for you. But I do wish the schools would make it really clear on Day 1 that students need to be finding them. As it is, a lot of students don't realize until it's too late.

haha whered you get that picture of me. But when you have people getting off the books interviews because their college roommate's dad is a circuit judge or their moms best friend is the judge's wife, like really, how much prep can anyone do

Remember talking to an alumni about career advice and getting involved in a lawyer role in administrative agencies and they were talking about the importance of persistence and starting from the bottom and I was really inspired by their started from the "relative" bottom story only to learn about a one month later that said person's parent was a United States Senator.

Not quite the same, but reminded me of the time one of the local SSC justices visited one of my law school classes, and the prof asked them what career advice they'd give us. The justice said, "be open to new experiences and opportunities," which is totally fine, but then went on to say, "for instance, I was working at the [big] law firm [where they were a partner] when the governor called me up to ask if I'd consider being solicitor general for the state, which I'd never considered as a career path," and I'm thinking, okay, I think there are just a FEW steps in there between "graduate law school" and "get appointed solicitor general."

[Prosecutor]

Has there been any movement in CDCA? Not that many '23 judges left.

[Anonymous User]

If I had an interview for a judge on Wednesday of the plan (June 15) and still haven't heard anything is following up a good idea? Or is it just like wait forever. If I can/should follow up, but now is too early, when would you say is appropriate to follow up—July 15?

[Anonymous User]

If I had an interview for a judge on Wednesday of the plan (June 15) and still haven't heard anything is following up a good idea? Or is it just like wait forever. If I can/should follow up, but now is too early, when would you say is appropriate to follow up—July 15?

There isn't much point to following up. They haven't forgotten about you; either they haven't made a decision yet, or they're ghosting you (I wouldn't say this is common, but it's not unheard of). I suppose if they're ghosting you and you reach out you can confirm for certain you don't have the job, but you don't have the job until you have an offer, so at a certain point, not hearing tells you what you need to know.

The only reason to follow up is if you have another offer with a deadline and you'd rather work for this judge.

(If you can't resist following up, I think now is too early and I'd give it a month.)

[Anonymous User]

There's grounds to call an unofficial process that's external to the actual clerkship application yet impacts students' prospects problematic. And judges rely on proxies because of the volume of applicants. Getting rid of the plan won't do away with that.

I don't mind the emphasis on recommenders. Your professional life will always revolve around trying to impress important people so they do favors for you. But I do wish the schools would make it really clear on Day 1 that students need to be finding them. As it is, a lot of students don't realize until it's too late.

haha whered you get that picture of me. But when you have people getting off the books interviews because their college roommate's dad is a circuit judge or their moms best friend is the judge's wife, like really, how much prep can anyone do

Remember talking to an alumni about career advice and getting involved in a lawyer role in administrative agencies and they were talking about the importance of persistence and starting from the bottom and I was really inspired by their started from the "relative" bottom story only to learn about a one month later that said person's parent was a United States Senator.

This reminds me of Columbia Law highlighting the rigorous trials the son of a baseball team owner had to undertake to make it in Sports Law: https://www.law.columbia.edu/news/archi ... eenberg-11

"I was lucky enough to get 2 summer internships with the Pittsburgh Pirates" im losing it

[Anonymous User]

Would getting offered a new TA position be enough of an excuse to follow up, or are these application "updates" only really reserved for mega things like getting a clerkship from another judge in a different term.

[Anonymous User]

Would getting offered a new TA position be enough of an excuse to follow up, or are these application "updates" only really reserved for mega things like getting a clerkship from another judge in a different term.

I think it’s kind of up to you. I don’t think there’s anything *wrong* with updating with a TA position. I’d be really surprised if it had any impact at all though (mayyyybe possibly if you’re TAing for a prof who’s best buddies with the judge, but otherwise not). I wouldn’t use it as a reason to follow up, in the sense of asking where the hiring process is at (though it may prompt the judge to say something), but if you want to add it to your application, you can, in that I don’t think anyone would hold it against you.

[Anonymous User]

Any movement from the non-NDIL Midwest/Great Lakes district courts (in OH, MI, IN, etc.)?

Hala Jarbou, Thomas L. Ludington, David M. Lawson, Laurie J. Michelson, Mary M. Rowland have all interviewed/offered for 23

Anyone know if Linda Parker or Terrence Berg have hired?

Bumping this if anyone happens to know?

[Anonymous User]

Would getting offered a new TA position be enough of an excuse to follow up, or are these application "updates" only really reserved for mega things like getting a clerkship from another judge in a different term.

I think it’s kind of up to you. I don’t think there’s anything *wrong* with updating with a TA position. I’d be really surprised if it had any impact at all though (mayyyybe possibly if you’re TAing for a prof who’s best buddies with the judge, but otherwise not). I wouldn’t use it as a reason to follow up, in the sense of asking where the hiring process is at (though it may prompt the judge to say something), but if you want to add it to your application, you can, in that I don’t think anyone would hold it against you.

Honestly, the (likely) downside of updating them is pretty minimal and the (very unlikely) upside is very high. I'd do it, even if there's a 99.9% chance it doesn't make a difference. But yes, only pose it as an update to your application, not as a prompt for news. But you can only really do this once without seeming insane, so make sure it's the best update you're likely to have in the near future.

[Anonymous User]

Would getting offered a new TA position be enough of an excuse to follow up, or are these application "updates" only really reserved for mega things like getting a clerkship from another judge in a different term.

I think it’s kind of up to you. I don’t think there’s anything *wrong* with updating with a TA position. I’d be really surprised if it had any impact at all though (mayyyybe possibly if you’re TAing for a prof who’s best buddies with the judge, but otherwise not). I wouldn’t use it as a reason to follow up, in the sense of asking where the hiring process is at (though it may prompt the judge to say something), but if you want to add it to your application, you can, in that I don’t think anyone would hold it against you.

Honestly, the (likely) downside of updating them is pretty minimal and the (very unlikely) upside is very high. I'd do it, even if there's a 99.9% chance it doesn't make a difference. But yes, only pose it as an update to your application, not as a prompt for news. But you can only really do this once without seeming insane, so make sure it's the best update you're likely to have in the near future.

Original OP here. How "done" hiring are other judges insofar as if this will likely be my only update?

[Anonymous User]

Would getting offered a new TA position be enough of an excuse to follow up, or are these application "updates" only really reserved for mega things like getting a clerkship from another judge in a different term.

I think it’s kind of up to you. I don’t think there’s anything *wrong* with updating with a TA position. I’d be really surprised if it had any impact at all though (mayyyybe possibly if you’re TAing for a prof who’s best buddies with the judge, but otherwise not). I wouldn’t use it as a reason to follow up, in the sense of asking where the hiring process is at (though it may prompt the judge to say something), but if you want to add it to your application, you can, in that I don’t think anyone would hold it against you.

Honestly, the (likely) downside of updating them is pretty minimal and the (very unlikely) upside is very high. I'd do it, even if there's a 99.9% chance it doesn't make a difference. But yes, only pose it as an update to your application, not as a prompt for news. But you can only really do this once without seeming insane, so make sure it's the best update you're likely to have in the near future.

Original OP here. How "done" hiring are other judges insofar as if this will likely be my only update?

Hard to say. I'd bet 50% have hired for your class year, the remaining 50% will slowly hire at random intervals between now and your start date.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard that if you get a 2023 clerkship for instance it makes sense to update you're 2024 apps, but what about the reverse. I just got offered a 2024 clership for a district judge, would it make sense to send an update to the circuit judges that I applied to for the 2023 term?

[Anonymous User]

I have heard that if you get a 2023 clerkship for instance it makes sense to update you're 2024 apps, but what about the reverse. I just got offered a 2024 clership for a district judge, would it make sense to send an update to the circuit judges that I applied to for the 2023 term?

Yes, absolutely. It's another judge's vote of confidence.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard that if you get a 2023 clerkship for instance it makes sense to update you're 2024 apps, but what about the reverse. I just got offered a 2024 clership for a district judge, would it make sense to send an update to the circuit judges that I applied to for the 2023 term?

Yes, absolutely. It's another judge's vote of confidence.

Oh I see. I was thinking it more like the boost is from the experience, but if there is a boost for said vote of confidence, I understand why I should still update. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

So if I haven't gotten an interview from on plan judges yet, it's prob reasonable to losing hope abt now, right?

Wait till the end of this week, then... probably yeah.

is this an appropriate time to lose hope? applied to about 60 district court judges on plan. heard not a peep from a single one. applied in the midwest and south-east/south... i knew chicago, philly, and the dmv area were long shots but i was hoping to really hear from at least one of the more rural midwestern judges?

not really sure what to do now....just wait out another cycle basically?

[Anonymous User]

So if I haven't gotten an interview from on plan judges yet, it's prob reasonable to losing hope abt now, right?

Wait till the end of this week, then... probably yeah.

is this an appropriate time to lose hope? applied to about 60 district court judges on plan. heard not a peep from a single one. applied in the midwest and south-east/south... i knew chicago, philly, and the dmv area were long shots but i was hoping to really hear from at least one of the more rural midwestern judges?

not really sure what to do now....just wait out another cycle basically?

From my personal experience, those judges hire relatively early too. I'd assume the worst and focus on enjoying the summer and strategizing on how to improve this upcoming year so that you can have a strong shot next summer.

[Anonymous User]

So if I haven't gotten an interview from on plan judges yet, it's prob reasonable to losing hope abt now, right?

Wait till the end of this week, then... probably yeah.

is this an appropriate time to lose hope? applied to about 60 district court judges on plan. heard not a peep from a single one. applied in the midwest and south-east/south... i knew chicago, philly, and the dmv area were long shots but i was hoping to really hear from at least one of the more rural midwestern judges?

not really sure what to do now....just wait out another cycle basically?

From my personal experience, those judges hire relatively early too. I'd assume the worst and focus on enjoying the summer and strategizing on how to improve this upcoming year so that you can have a strong shot next summer.

Went through something similar last year, and for your own sanity, I would recommend trying to forget about any applications you've already submitted (easier said than done, I know) and just keep applying to new postings on OSCAR or that your school hears about. Just from my experience and that of my friends, judges in smaller cities or rural areas (including district court judges that might seem less competitive) seem more likely to value ties to their state - though it's a small sample size, so take it with a grain of salt. If you have no ties beyond "I'm from a neighboring state/the general region," maybe have professors call chambers (for future applications) and ask them to mention that you're specifically interested in that judge? It worked for me and my friends, but YMMV.

[Anonymous User]

What's the deal with judges on OSCAR going expired? I take that it means they probably filled and just forgot to/didn't feel the need to update.

[Anonymous User]

Got a 2nd Cir. interview out of nowhere yesterday so movement is still happening