SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships Forum

[Anonymous User]

I know someone similar who got it but with a family BK connection

[Anonymous User]

I know someone similar who got it but with a family BK connection

Someone I went to undergrad with had similar academic credentials (ish) and a non-feeder circuit clerkship but had a family relationship with one of the justices. Also know someone with demonstrably worse academic credentials and a district court clerkship who managed, but they were the child of a very influential professor.

Have you considered being related to someone important?

[Anonymous User]

As someone whose time as a law clerk topped out at the COA level, I have always been curious about the workload of SCOTUS clerks. Is it all-consuming like a Kozinski clerkship? Do Justice Alito's clerks work longer hours because their boss doesn't participate in the cert pool?

Varies from Justice to Justice. For example, EK and SMS are way more demanding than SGB. EK is probably on par with AK, workload-wise.

Bumping this to see if anyone has recent insight on clerk workload. What are hours like for the newer justices and is most of it done in chambers? And by comparing EK to Kozinski, does that mean her clerks frequently work in chambers until midnight or later?

[Anonymous User]

I graduated magna at HLS and am finishing a year at a firm before a couple of non-feeder clerkships (one district, one circuit). Wasn't on law review or in FedSoc (I'm a liberal, but the sort of liberal who also really wants to be an AUSA; both judges I'm clerking for were appointed by Republican presidents, but both hire non-ideologically). I have strong recommendations but nobody on the Goldsmith/Lazarus level of active pushing (i.e. I had multiple recommenders call judges, but they definitely don't have well-known pipelines to any of the justices).

As I write this all out, I think I have a pretty decent sense of how long a shot I am for a SCOTUS clerkship. There are at least like 90 people between HYS who graduated in my year with similar grades; conservative justices could find strong ideological conservatives in that group, liberal justices could find ACS types, and both groups could find people who clerked for their friends/prestige-signalers. But I guess I'm wondering two things:

1) Do people with a similar set of credentials to mine (non-feeder clerkships, no LR, no strong ideological appeal) really ever get SCOTUS clerkships? The SCOTUS alums at my firm seem to overwhelmingly be of the "FedSoc -> Thapar/Sutton/Grant -> conservative wing of SCOTUS" type or the "summa at HLS -> Garland -> CJR and the liberal wing of SCOTUS" type. On the other hand, career services seems slightly more bullish about my odds (but I know they've got a vested interest in having people apply).

2) With my credentials basically set in stone, is there anything I can do to improve my odds at this point? The obvious answer seems to be 'do such good work in the clerkships that my judges, neither of whom has ever fed, feel compelled to push me in any way they can'. Curious if there's anything I'm missing.

I have a clear enough sense of my career interests that I know that SCOTUS isn't make-or-break for them (thank God, because it seems like it's almost certainly 'break'), but I'm curious whether there's a non-infinitessimal chance of it happening such that it's worth rustling up recs and the like.

I know a recent T25 grad with stellar credentials (LR, moot court, military, undergrad/grad at high-ranked schools, interesting work experience, could not get a read on ideology) with the exception of her law school grades which were not top of the class but were not embarrassingly bad. I know some professors had wanted to float her to feeder judges and perhaps beyond but I think she just did not care to clerk at all. Personality and cultivating an interesting resume may help to push you closer to a SCOTUS clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

I am NOT a SCOTUS clerk, so caveat emptor, but I have heard through the grapevine from SCOTUS clerks that Alito, Kavanaugh, Roberts, and Thomas are popular bosses, and Gorsuch and especially Kagan are among the most difficult.

[Anonymous User]

I am NOT a SCOTUS clerk, so caveat emptor, but I have heard through the grapevine from SCOTUS clerks that Alito, Kavanaugh, Roberts, and Thomas are popular bosses, and Gorsuch and especially Kagan are among the most difficult.

Interesting, I'd also heard Kagan could be tough. I'm sure it varies judge to judge, but are SCOTUS hours generally worse than other clerkships, like SDNY?

[Anonymous User]

Not a SCOTUS clerk either, but from spending a lot of time around many of them, I've heard each of these many times:

Gorsuch is the toughest boss on the Court right now, it's not a pleasant experience.

Thomas clerks work exceptionally hard (longer hours than most) but universally love him. The Thomas alumni network is by far and away the tightest knit.

Kavanaugh is likeable, but it's a tough job in the way working for a demanding biglaw partner is, he expects you to be available 24/7.

Alito and Sotomayor are good bosses, it's a less intense experience than the above chambers are.

Roberts does not interact with his clerks as much as most do, it's also an easier clerkship because he relies on his clerks for less.

No particular insight on Jackson or Barrett yet. They were regarded as good bosses when they served on the lower courts.

[Anonymous User]

Roberts does not interact with his clerks as much as most do, it's also an easier clerkship because he relies on his clerks for less.

This is not accurate.

[Anonymous User]

Not a SCOTUS clerk either, but from spending a lot of time around many of them, I've heard each of these many times:

Gorsuch is the toughest boss on the Court right now, it's not a pleasant experience.

Thomas clerks work exceptionally hard (longer hours than most) but universally love him. The Thomas alumni network is by far and away the tightest knit.

Kavanaugh is likeable, but it's a tough job in the way working for a demanding biglaw partner is, he expects you to be available 24/7.

Alito and Sotomayor are good bosses, it's a less intense experience than the above chambers are.

Roberts does not interact with his clerks as much as most do, it's also an easier clerkship because he relies on his clerks for less.

No particular insight on Jackson or Barrett yet. They were regarded as good bosses when they served on the lower courts.

IME, there is some inaccurate information here.

-Kagan is the hardest boss, and it's not close. Ask any of her former clerks.

-Gorsuch is one of the easier bosses. He's respectful of out-of-office time and his clerks don't participate in the cert pool.

-Kavanaugh is not especially "likable" to his clerks. They work grueling hours (all in person) and he can be unpleasant to deal with.

-Alito/Sotomayor are, indeed, great bosses.

-Roberts interacts with his clerks more than almost any other justice. However, you are right that his clerks write less than some others.

[Anonymous User]

Not a SCOTUS clerk either, but from spending a lot of time around many of them, I've heard each of these many times:

Gorsuch is the toughest boss on the Court right now, it's not a pleasant experience.

Thomas clerks work exceptionally hard (longer hours than most) but universally love him. The Thomas alumni network is by far and away the tightest knit.

Kavanaugh is likeable, but it's a tough job in the way working for a demanding biglaw partner is, he expects you to be available 24/7.

Alito and Sotomayor are good bosses, it's a less intense experience than the above chambers are.

Roberts does not interact with his clerks as much as most do, it's also an easier clerkship because he relies on his clerks for less.

No particular insight on Jackson or Barrett yet. They were regarded as good bosses when they served on the lower courts.

IME, there is some inaccurate information here.

-Kagan is the hardest boss, and it's not close. Ask any of her former clerks.

-Gorsuch is one of the easier bosses. He's respectful of out-of-office time and his clerks don't participate in the cert pool.

-Kavanaugh is not especially "likable" to his clerks. They work grueling hours (all in person) and he can be unpleasant to deal with.

-Alito/Sotomayor are, indeed, great bosses.

-Roberts interacts with his clerks more than almost any other justice. However, you are right that his clerks write less than some others.

Just out of curiosity, is “out of office time” even a thing for SCOTUS clerks? I always pictured them working 120 hour weeks

[Anonymous User]

Not a SCOTUS clerk either, but from spending a lot of time around many of them, I've heard each of these many times:

Gorsuch is the toughest boss on the Court right now, it's not a pleasant experience.

Thomas clerks work exceptionally hard (longer hours than most) but universally love him. The Thomas alumni network is by far and away the tightest knit.

Kavanaugh is likeable, but it's a tough job in the way working for a demanding biglaw partner is, he expects you to be available 24/7.

Alito and Sotomayor are good bosses, it's a less intense experience than the above chambers are.

Roberts does not interact with his clerks as much as most do, it's also an easier clerkship because he relies on his clerks for less.

No particular insight on Jackson or Barrett yet. They were regarded as good bosses when they served on the lower courts.

IME, there is some inaccurate information here.

-Kagan is the hardest boss, and it's not close. Ask any of her former clerks.

-Gorsuch is one of the easier bosses. He's respectful of out-of-office time and his clerks don't participate in the cert pool.

-Kavanaugh is not especially "likable" to his clerks. They work grueling hours (all in person) and he can be unpleasant to deal with.

-Alito/Sotomayor are, indeed, great bosses.

-Roberts interacts with his clerks more than almost any other justice. However, you are right that his clerks write less than some others.

How/why can Gorsuch get away with not participating in the cert pool?

[Anonymous User]

Not a SCOTUS clerk either, but from spending a lot of time around many of them, I've heard each of these many times:

Gorsuch is the toughest boss on the Court right now, it's not a pleasant experience.

Thomas clerks work exceptionally hard (longer hours than most) but universally love him. The Thomas alumni network is by far and away the tightest knit.

Kavanaugh is likeable, but it's a tough job in the way working for a demanding biglaw partner is, he expects you to be available 24/7.

Alito and Sotomayor are good bosses, it's a less intense experience than the above chambers are.

Roberts does not interact with his clerks as much as most do, it's also an easier clerkship because he relies on his clerks for less.

No particular insight on Jackson or Barrett yet. They were regarded as good bosses when they served on the lower courts.

IME, there is some inaccurate information here.

-Kagan is the hardest boss, and it's not close. Ask any of her former clerks.

-Gorsuch is one of the easier bosses. He's respectful of out-of-office time and his clerks don't participate in the cert pool.

-Kavanaugh is not especially "likable" to his clerks. They work grueling hours (all in person) and he can be unpleasant to deal with.

-Alito/Sotomayor are, indeed, great bosses.

-Roberts interacts with his clerks more than almost any other justice. However, you are right that his clerks write less than some others.

This is who you replied to. As to Gorsuch/Kav, I agree with you on hours, and I think we're in a YMMV vary situation with the merits of the two of them as bosses. Gorsuch as a person is not for everyone. It sounds like Kavanaugh isn't either, but I've heard generally warmer feelings about him than about Gorsuch, even though everyone agrees the Kavanaugh clerkship is an intense, biglaw-style year.

[Anonymous User]

Not a SCOTUS clerk either, but from spending a lot of time around many of them, I've heard each of these many times:

Gorsuch is the toughest boss on the Court right now, it's not a pleasant experience.

Thomas clerks work exceptionally hard (longer hours than most) but universally love him. The Thomas alumni network is by far and away the tightest knit.

Kavanaugh is likeable, but it's a tough job in the way working for a demanding biglaw partner is, he expects you to be available 24/7.

Alito and Sotomayor are good bosses, it's a less intense experience than the above chambers are.

Roberts does not interact with his clerks as much as most do, it's also an easier clerkship because he relies on his clerks for less.

No particular insight on Jackson or Barrett yet. They were regarded as good bosses when they served on the lower courts.

IME, there is some inaccurate information here.

-Kagan is the hardest boss, and it's not close. Ask any of her former clerks.

-Gorsuch is one of the easier bosses. He's respectful of out-of-office time and his clerks don't participate in the cert pool.

-Kavanaugh is not especially "likable" to his clerks. They work grueling hours (all in person) and he can be unpleasant to deal with.

-Alito/Sotomayor are, indeed, great bosses.

-Roberts interacts with his clerks more than almost any other justice. However, you are right that his clerks write less than some others.

Just out of curiosity, is “out of office time” even a thing for SCOTUS clerks? I always pictured them working 120 hour weeks

I was wondering the same thing. What do grueling Kavanaugh hours entail and do clerks for other justices do essentially all their work in chambers?

[Anonymous User]

Not a SCOTUS clerk either, but from spending a lot of time around many of them, I've heard each of these many times:

Gorsuch is the toughest boss on the Court right now, it's not a pleasant experience.

Thomas clerks work exceptionally hard (longer hours than most) but universally love him. The Thomas alumni network is by far and away the tightest knit.

Kavanaugh is likeable, but it's a tough job in the way working for a demanding biglaw partner is, he expects you to be available 24/7.

Alito and Sotomayor are good bosses, it's a less intense experience than the above chambers are.

Roberts does not interact with his clerks as much as most do, it's also an easier clerkship because he relies on his clerks for less.

No particular insight on Jackson or Barrett yet. They were regarded as good bosses when they served on the lower courts.

IME, there is some inaccurate information here.

-Kagan is the hardest boss, and it's not close. Ask any of her former clerks.

-Gorsuch is one of the easier bosses. He's respectful of out-of-office time and his clerks don't participate in the cert pool.

-Kavanaugh is not especially "likable" to his clerks. They work grueling hours (all in person) and he can be unpleasant to deal with.

-Alito/Sotomayor are, indeed, great bosses.

-Roberts interacts with his clerks more than almost any other justice. However, you are right that his clerks write less than some others.

Just out of curiosity, is “out of office time” even a thing for SCOTUS clerks? I always pictured them working 120 hour weeks

I was wondering the same thing. What do grueling Kavanaugh hours entail and do clerks for other justices do essentially all their work in chambers?

This is outdated anecdata, but I knew a former Kozinski/Kennedy clerk who said that clerking for SCOTUS was much more laid back in terms of hours and vibes than his other clerkship. Obviously that's an extreme example, but it is not the case that justices universally their clerks extremely hard

[Anonymous User]

Not a SCOTUS clerk either, but from spending a lot of time around many of them, I've heard each of these many times:

Gorsuch is the toughest boss on the Court right now, it's not a pleasant experience.

Thomas clerks work exceptionally hard (longer hours than most) but universally love him. The Thomas alumni network is by far and away the tightest knit.

Kavanaugh is likeable, but it's a tough job in the way working for a demanding biglaw partner is, he expects you to be available 24/7.

Alito and Sotomayor are good bosses, it's a less intense experience than the above chambers are.

Roberts does not interact with his clerks as much as most do, it's also an easier clerkship because he relies on his clerks for less.

No particular insight on Jackson or Barrett yet. They were regarded as good bosses when they served on the lower courts.

IME, there is some inaccurate information here.

-Kagan is the hardest boss, and it's not close. Ask any of her former clerks.

-Gorsuch is one of the easier bosses. He's respectful of out-of-office time and his clerks don't participate in the cert pool.

-Kavanaugh is not especially "likable" to his clerks. They work grueling hours (all in person) and he can be unpleasant to deal with.

-Alito/Sotomayor are, indeed, great bosses.

-Roberts interacts with his clerks more than almost any other justice. However, you are right that his clerks write less than some others.

Just out of curiosity, is “out of office time” even a thing for SCOTUS clerks? I always pictured them working 120 hour weeks

I was wondering the same thing. What do grueling Kavanaugh hours entail and do clerks for other justices do essentially all their work in chambers?

Grueling Kavanaugh hours are things along the lines of him calling you at sunrise on a Sunday or 11 PM on a Friday if for some reason he starts thinking about one of your cases and feels like discussing it. The sense I've gotten is that you shouldn't expect out-of-office boundaries with him the way you might be able to with some of the other Justices.

[Anonymous User]

Not a SCOTUS clerk either, but from spending a lot of time around many of them, I've heard each of these many times:

Gorsuch is the toughest boss on the Court right now, it's not a pleasant experience.

Thomas clerks work exceptionally hard (longer hours than most) but universally love him. The Thomas alumni network is by far and away the tightest knit.

Kavanaugh is likeable, but it's a tough job in the way working for a demanding biglaw partner is, he expects you to be available 24/7.

Alito and Sotomayor are good bosses, it's a less intense experience than the above chambers are.

Roberts does not interact with his clerks as much as most do, it's also an easier clerkship because he relies on his clerks for less.

No particular insight on Jackson or Barrett yet. They were regarded as good bosses when they served on the lower courts.

IME, there is some inaccurate information here.

-Kagan is the hardest boss, and it's not close. Ask any of her former clerks.

-Gorsuch is one of the easier bosses. He's respectful of out-of-office time and his clerks don't participate in the cert pool.

-Kavanaugh is not especially "likable" to his clerks. They work grueling hours (all in person) and he can be unpleasant to deal with.

-Alito/Sotomayor are, indeed, great bosses.

-Roberts interacts with his clerks more than almost any other justice. However, you are right that his clerks write less than some others.

Just out of curiosity, is “out of office time” even a thing for SCOTUS clerks? I always pictured them working 120 hour weeks

I was wondering the same thing. What do grueling Kavanaugh hours entail and do clerks for other justices do essentially all their work in chambers?

Grueling Kavanaugh hours are things along the lines of him calling you at sunrise on a Sunday or 11 PM on a Friday if for some reason he starts thinking about one of your cases and feels like discussing it. The sense I've gotten is that you shouldn't expect out-of-office boundaries with him the way you might be able to with some of the other Justices.

Thanks for the insight. Sounds like some feeders that I am familiar with, so I suppose that would be good training ground for clerking for Kavanaugh.

[Anonymous User]

I know this is a dumb question, but TLS is the place for these kinds of dumb questions. Are there any differences in the relative prestige of clerking for the various justices? I know that there is obviously a political component to this -- liberals will like Sotomayor more and conservatives will like Alito more -- but that's not really what I'm asking. I know that the justices have different standards for grades and resumes that they use when hiring. Does that make some SCOTUS clerkships more indicative of merit than others in eyes of employers and others? For example, would a top appellate group view Kavanaugh, Kagan, and Thomas clerkships as being proxies for different things skill-wise? If so, how does that all break down?

[Anonymous User]

I know this is a dumb question, but TLS is the place for these kinds of dumb questions. Are there any differences in the relative prestige of clerking for the various justices? I know that there is obviously a political component to this -- liberals will like Sotomayor more and conservatives will like Alito more -- but that's not really what I'm asking. I know that the justices have different standards for grades and resumes that they use when hiring. Does that make some SCOTUS clerkships more indicative of merit than others in eyes of employers and others? For example, would a top appellate group view Kavanaugh, Kagan, and Thomas clerkships as being proxies for different things skill-wise? If so, how does that all break down?

[never mind]

[Anonymous User]

I know a recent T25 grad with stellar credentials (LR, moot court, military, undergrad/grad at high-ranked schools, interesting work experience, could not get a read on ideology) with the exception of her law school grades which were not top of the class but were not embarrassingly bad. I know some professors had wanted to float her to feeder judges and perhaps beyond but I think she just did not care to clerk at all. Personality and cultivating an interesting resume may help to push you closer to a SCOTUS clerkship.

not be a prick but T25 with middling grades is sooooooooo far from SCOTUS clerkship credentials

[Anonymous User]

I know this is a dumb question, but TLS is the place for these kinds of dumb questions. Are there any differences in the relative prestige of clerking for the various justices? I know that there is obviously a political component to this -- liberals will like Sotomayor more and conservatives will like Alito more -- but that's not really what I'm asking. I know that the justices have different standards for grades and resumes that they use when hiring. Does that make some SCOTUS clerkships more indicative of merit than others in eyes of employers and others? For example, would a top appellate group view Kavanaugh, Kagan, and Thomas clerkships as being proxies for different things skill-wise? If so, how does that all break down?

I think a Roberts gig is ever-so-slightly considered more "Extra Special" but i don't think it would ever make a real difference in terms of hiring or career prospects

[Anonymous User]

Need advice regarding SCOTUS apps and TLS seems like a reasonable place to ask. Will be doing two circuit clerkships, the second for a conservative feeder. Top 5ish percent (give or take) at CCN. Would it hurt me to shoot my shot at SCOTUS apps 3L year with the understanding that I could try again during one or both of my clerkships, or would that hurt my chances down the line. I would prefer not having to leave private practice to clerk again and would rather go straight through if possible (though in the very fortunate event that I got the opportunity I absolutely would obv).

[Anonymous User]

I know a recent T25 grad with stellar credentials (LR, moot court, military, undergrad/grad at high-ranked schools, interesting work experience, could not get a read on ideology) with the exception of her law school grades which were not top of the class but were not embarrassingly bad. I know some professors had wanted to float her to feeder judges and perhaps beyond but I think she just did not care to clerk at all. Personality and cultivating an interesting resume may help to push you closer to a SCOTUS clerkship.

not be a prick but T25 with middling grades is sooooooooo far from SCOTUS clerkship credentials

Yes, that's closer to just a standard competitive federal clerkship application, even with the non-academic factors. If you're at a T30 that's not Notre Dame, especially if you're not in Fed Soc, you need to absolutely murder the curve, probably near your school's all-time GPA record, plus have other plus factors. Many T30s have never had a SCOTUS clerk, and every T30 has a valedictorian every year.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on SCOTUS potential? Long shot, but why not:

Stats:
- HYS;
- LR;
- RA'd for respected professor with relationships on the court who offered to write/call;
- Unique BL-gig working on civil rights/human rights lit;
- D Ct. (flyover in northeast) and COA (major market in the northeast) -- both non-feeders

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on SCOTUS potential? Long shot, but why not:

Stats:
- HYS;
- LR;
- RA'd for respected professor with relationships on the court who offered to write/call;
- Unique BL-gig working on civil rights/human rights lit;
- D Ct. (flyover in northeast) and COA (major market in the northeast) -- both non-feeders

we'd need your grades too, and who are the other recs? hard to determine otherwise from HYS

[crazywafflez]

Thoughts on SCOTUS potential? Long shot, but why not:

Stats:
- HYS;
- LR;
- RA'd for respected professor with relationships on the court who offered to write/call;
- Unique BL-gig working on civil rights/human rights lit;
- D Ct. (flyover in northeast) and COA (major market in the northeast) -- both non-feeders

Doesn't hurt to apply and shoot your shot. If your judge(s) and prof will make phone calls, that'll certainly help.