Best and worst judges to clerk for Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any word on Judge Donato in N.D. Cal?

[Anonymous User]

Any CA2 insiders care to speak about Lohier - how competitive he is, and what it's like to work for him?

[Anonymous User]

Not an insider, but at YLS his reputation is for being very competitive. After Katzmann I'd consider him the most competitive judge on the 2nd Circuit and in-line with other liberal semi-feeders around the country (e.g. Watford, Friedland, Barron, etc). That reputation may vary by school.

No direct insights on his chambers, but he has a reputation as a good boss.

[Anonymous User]

Not an insider, but at YLS his reputation is for being very competitive. After Katzmann I'd consider him the most competitive judge on the 2nd Circuit and in-line with other liberal semi-feeders around the country (e.g. Watford, Friedland, Barron, etc). That reputation may vary by school.

No direct insights on his chambers, but he has a reputation as a good boss.

Livingston might have a word with you on that, but otherwise I agree. The people I know clerking for Lohier are brilliant and high achieving, way more than myself (a lowly district court clerk ), but not Katzmann/Garland level "havent made a mistake since fourth grade" type people.

[Anonymous User]

fwiw, I've heard of a few liberal SCOTUS-level students at my HYS school (although not many obviously) pref-ing Livingston/Lohier over Katzmann because of timeline; it's obviously another story whether these students end up getting the clerkship. But all in all, yes, very competitive.

[Anonymous User]

Not an insider, but at YLS his reputation is for being very competitive. After Katzmann I'd consider him the most competitive judge on the 2nd Circuit and in-line with other liberal semi-feeders around the country (e.g. Watford, Friedland, Barron, etc). That reputation may vary by school.

No direct insights on his chambers, but he has a reputation as a good boss.

Livingston might have a word with you on that, but otherwise I agree. The people I know clerking for Lohier are brilliant and high achieving, way more than myself (a lowly district court clerk ), but not Katzmann/Garland level "havent made a mistake since fourth grade" type people.

That could well be true. I personally didn't know anyone who applied for Livingston. I think she has a much lower profile at YLS, or at least did when I was there. I would also point out that Lohier also hires people very far out, although perhaps he is a year behind Katzmann!

[Anonymous User]

Not an insider, but at YLS his reputation is for being very competitive. After Katzmann I'd consider him the most competitive judge on the 2nd Circuit and in-line with other liberal semi-feeders around the country (e.g. Watford, Friedland, Barron, etc). That reputation may vary by school.

No direct insights on his chambers, but he has a reputation as a good boss.

Livingston might have a word with you on that, but otherwise I agree. The people I know clerking for Lohier are brilliant and high achieving, way more than myself (a lowly district court clerk ), but not Katzmann/Garland level "havent made a mistake since fourth grade" type people.

That could well be true. I personally didn't know anyone who applied for Livingston. I think she has a much lower profile at YLS, or at least did when I was there. I would also point out that Lohier also hires people very far out, although perhaps he is a year behind Katzmann!

Fwiw I’m a feeder-ish level student at Chicago and I’ve never heard of Lohier being that far above average for CA2. I’d say my general impression is that Katzmann and Livingston, who virtually never hire from Chicago, are the top followed by a bunch of solid but non-feeder judges like Chin, Lohier, Park, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Not an insider, but at YLS his reputation is for being very competitive. After Katzmann I'd consider him the most competitive judge on the 2nd Circuit and in-line with other liberal semi-feeders around the country (e.g. Watford, Friedland, Barron, etc). That reputation may vary by school.

No direct insights on his chambers, but he has a reputation as a good boss.

Livingston might have a word with you on that, but otherwise I agree. The people I know clerking for Lohier are brilliant and high achieving, way more than myself (a lowly district court clerk ), but not Katzmann/Garland level "havent made a mistake since fourth grade" type people.

That could well be true. I personally didn't know anyone who applied for Livingston. I think she has a much lower profile at YLS, or at least did when I was there. I would also point out that Lohier also hires people very far out, although perhaps he is a year behind Katzmann!

Fwiw I’m a feeder-ish level student at Chicago and I’ve never heard of Lohier being that far above average for CA2. I’d say my general impression is that Katzmann and Livingston, who virtually never hire from Chicago, are the top followed by a bunch of solid but non-feeder judges like Chin, Lohier, Park, etc.

I sort of agree with this (excluding Park who is a new judge and does not belong in that conversation). I think Lohier is a step above Chin, but definitely solidly behind Katzmann. There are other judges with histories of feeding like Calabrese and Cabranes as well.

[Anonymous User]

fwiw, I've heard of a few liberal SCOTUS-level students at my HYS school (although not many obviously) pref-ing Livingston/Lohier over Katzmann because of timeline; it's obviously another story whether these students end up getting the clerkship. But all in all, yes, very competitive.

Same, feeder level people that I know were not thrilled when they found out the earliest they could clerk for Katzmann was 3-4 yrs post-graduation.

[Anonymous User]

fwiw, I've heard of a few liberal SCOTUS-level students at my HYS school (although not many obviously) pref-ing Livingston/Lohier over Katzmann because of timeline; it's obviously another story whether these students end up getting the clerkship. But all in all, yes, very competitive.

I don't think a liberal student would have an excellent time clerking for Livingston, who according to courthouse gossip a couple years ago used to wonder aloud why Democrats didn't just let Trump build his wall.

[Anonymous User]

fwiw, I've heard of a few liberal SCOTUS-level students at my HYS school (although not many obviously) pref-ing Livingston/Lohier over Katzmann because of timeline; it's obviously another story whether these students end up getting the clerkship. But all in all, yes, very competitive.

I don't think a liberal student would have an excellent time clerking for Livingston, who according to courthouse gossip a couple years ago used to wonder aloud why Democrats didn't just let Trump build his wall.

Livingston regularly hires liberals and the ones I know (I clerked on CA2, not for her) uniformly praised the experience. She's conservative for sure, but this is stupid innuendo.

[Wild Card]

I don't think a liberal student would have an excellent time clerking for Livingston, who according to courthouse gossip a couple years ago used to wonder aloud why Democrats didn't just let Trump build his wall.

Did you mean "progressive"? Liberal Democrats (including the President) since the 90s have been arguing for curbs on illegal immigration through the strengthing of America's border.

https://clintonwhitehouse1.archives.gov ... iii-7.html

[Anonymous User]

I don't think a liberal student would have an excellent time clerking for Livingston, who according to courthouse gossip a couple years ago used to wonder aloud why Democrats didn't just let Trump build his wall.

Did you mean "progressive"? Liberal Democrats (including the President) since the 90s have been arguing for curbs on illegal immigration through the strengthing of America's border.

https://clintonwhitehouse1.archives.gov ... iii-7.html

In no world was Bill Clinton a liberal democrat, even for the time. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way

[beepboopbeep]

Boy what this helpful on-topic thread really needs is wildcard and some anon posters arguing about politics

[polareagle]

Boy what this helpful on-topic thread really needs is wildcard and some anon posters arguing about politics

Fair enough. That response was me by the way, accidental anon.

To be more responsive to the point, a judge's personal views on the political expediency of supporting or opposing construction of a border wall is close to the bottom of things you should be considering in a judge, even if you are liberal. Livingston has a good rep.

[beepboopbeep]

Yea, I agree on the substantive point lurking below the above. I disagreed with my judge a lot on politics and still had a great clerkship experience.

[Anonymous User]

Yea, I agree on the substantive point lurking below the above. I disagreed with my judge a lot on politics and still had a great clerkship experience.

I clerked for a similarly well-known conservative (compared to Livingston) and my outspokenly liberal co-clerks loved the experience. The judge doesn't care at all about ideology when hiring, and productive, civil disagreements on legal and political issues were a hallmark of chambers culture.

It seems like this is the case for a number of conservative judges--because the law student population as a whole skews liberal, many are happy to hire clerks with good credentials who happen to be well to their left. But I'm curious as to how often this happens in reverse--are there any well-known liberal judges who regularly hire conservative clerks? Or are there usually few enough conservative applicants in the pool that they're able to self-select conservative judges?

[Anonymous User]

Yea, I agree on the substantive point lurking below the above. I disagreed with my judge a lot on politics and still had a great clerkship experience.

I clerked for a similarly well-known conservative (compared to Livingston) and my outspokenly liberal co-clerks loved the experience. The judge doesn't care at all about ideology when hiring, and productive, civil disagreements on legal and political issues were a hallmark of chambers culture.

It seems like this is the case for a number of conservative judges--because the law student population as a whole skews liberal, many are happy to hire clerks with good credentials who happen to be well to their left. But I'm curious as to how often this happens in reverse--are there any well-known liberal judges who regularly hire conservative clerks? Or are there usually few enough conservative applicants in the pool that they're able to self-select conservative judges?

I doubt this happens much because (1) top conservative students are generally on the market well before top liberal students and (2) liberal judges and liberal-friendly conservative judges like Livingston and Sutton are generally significantly more competitive than comparable hardline Fed Soc judges so conservative applicants have little reason to gun for them. There might also be anti-Fed Soc selection in liberal judges and/or their clerks but it would be very hard to tell if we're seeing signal on that given the noise.

[Anonymous User]

Yea, I agree on the substantive point lurking below the above. I disagreed with my judge a lot on politics and still had a great clerkship experience.

I clerked for a similarly well-known conservative (compared to Livingston) and my outspokenly liberal co-clerks loved the experience. The judge doesn't care at all about ideology when hiring, and productive, civil disagreements on legal and political issues were a hallmark of chambers culture.

It seems like this is the case for a number of conservative judges--because the law student population as a whole skews liberal, many are happy to hire clerks with good credentials who happen to be well to their left. But I'm curious as to how often this happens in reverse--are there any well-known liberal judges who regularly hire conservative clerks? Or are there usually few enough conservative applicants in the pool that they're able to self-select conservative judges?

I doubt this happens much because (1) top conservative students are generally on the market well before top liberal students and (2) liberal judges and liberal-friendly conservative judges like Livingston and Sutton are generally significantly more competitive than comparable hardline Fed Soc judges so conservative applicants have little reason to gun for them. There might also be anti-Fed Soc selection in liberal judges and/or their clerks but it would be very hard to tell if we're seeing signal on that given the noise.

The last Alito clerk from my school was a Livingston clerk FWIW.

[Joachim2017]

I know Livingston clerks who are quite liberal and who went on to clerk for liberal Justices. They were quite happy in chambers with Livingston.

Re CA2 more broadly, Katzmann is definitely a step above Lohier and the others re feeding clerks to SCOTUS. But everything I've heard about Lohier is very positive. In terms of hiring, he tends to take his time.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone heard anything about Judge Olguin in terms of work style, personality, and interview style?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone heard anything about Judge Olguin in terms of work style, personality, and interview style?

Works his clerks hard, some weekend work is expected, but otherwise a good boss. And honestly, any active judge on the CDCal is gonna be real busy until some new judges get appointed...

[Chokenhauer]

Anyone heard anything about Judge Olguin in terms of work style, personality, and interview style?

Works his clerks hard, some weekend work is expected, but otherwise a good boss. And honestly, any active judge on the CDCal is gonna be real busy until some new judges get appointed...

Out of curiosity, what do you think the chances are that the Senate gets the rest of these appointees confirmed before the end of the year?

[Anonymous User]

I know Livingston clerks who are quite liberal and who went on to clerk for liberal Justices. They were quite happy in chambers with Livingston.

Re CA2 more broadly, Katzmann is definitely a step above Lohier and the others re feeding clerks to SCOTUS. But everything I've heard about Lohier is very positive. In terms of hiring, he tends to take his time.

I am liberal and took two classes from Judge Livingston in law school. She is a lovely person and, at least in class, presented both sides of the relevant issues (crim pro)

[Anonymous User]

Anyone heard anything about Judge Olguin in terms of work style, personality, and interview style?

Works his clerks hard, some weekend work is expected, but otherwise a good boss. And honestly, any active judge on the CDCal is gonna be real busy until some new judges get appointed...

Out of curiosity, what do you think the chances are that the Senate gets the rest of these appointees confirmed before the end of the year?

All appellate judges are filled so our clerkship office said to expect a good number of confirmations. The Senate goes back in session Friday and there are quite a few judges who have made it through committee who could be confirmed soon.