Best conservative judges to clerk for? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any info on Brasher?

[Anonymous User]

Re: brasher. Clerked on 11th but not for ALB. He is very young and seems very chill. His clerks were happy. Apparently they play ping pong and go river rafting. He is decently well respected. Not as much as Newsom or Grant but way more than Lagoa or Branch.

[Anonymous User]

This is also second-hand but I've heard extremely negative things about Stras. One clerk was fired/quit recently and he's very tough. If you're competitive for Stras, then you're competitive for many other great judges. I'd pick one from the field over Stras if I could.

[Anonymous User]

This is also second-hand but I've heard extremely negative things about Stras. One clerk was fired/quit recently and he's very tough. If you're competitive for Stras, then you're competitive for many other great judges. I'd pick one from the field over Stras if I could.

Colloton has a long-established reputation as a bad boss, so if the rumor mill on Stras is right, there isn't really an all-things-considered good clerkship for conservatives on the Eighth. The two who feed some are rough, the rest don't feed at all (except Gruender once in a blue moon).

[Anonymous User]

This is also second-hand but I've heard extremely negative things about Stras. One clerk was fired/quit recently and he's very tough. If you're competitive for Stras, then you're competitive for many other great judges. I'd pick one from the field over Stras if I could.

Colloton has a long-established reputation as a bad boss, so if the rumor mill on Stras is right, there isn't really an all-things-considered good clerkship for conservatives on the Eighth. The two who feed some are rough, the rest don't feed at all (except Gruender once in a blue moon).

It seems like this is right. The best circuits for conservatives wanting a good clerkship seem to be the Sixth (have heard good things about the experience with Sutton, Thapar, Kethledge, Murphy, Readler, Nalbandian, and Bush), the Fifth (ditto with Oldham, Jerry Smith, Ho, Willett, and Edith Jones (depending on who you ask)), and the Eleventh (Pryor, Newsom, Grant, Brasher). The conservative options on the DC and 9th Circuits also seem to be generally good (though I've heard some negative things about the experience with one or two of the Republican appointees on the 9th, but that was all hearsay for me).

[Anonymous User]

This is also second-hand but I've heard extremely negative things about Stras. One clerk was fired/quit recently and he's very tough. If you're competitive for Stras, then you're competitive for many other great judges. I'd pick one from the field over Stras if I could.

This rumor needs to stop. DRS is a good judge who works really hard to get it right. If you don’t want that then apply to someone else, but all of this inane, twenty degrees of separation badmouthing is getting out of hand.

Some clerks are bad fits. That’s not a reflection on the judge—that’s a reflection of someone who gave up and frankly didn’t have what it takes to succeed at the highest level even after getting multiple chances.

[Anonymous User]

Re: brasher. Clerked on 11th but not for ALB. He is very young and seems very chill. His clerks were happy. Apparently they play ping pong and go river rafting. He is decently well respected. Not as much as Newsom or Grant but way more than Lagoa or Branch.

Thanks. Why aren't Lagoa and Branch as well respected? They seem like solid judges

[Anonymous User]

Re: brasher. Clerked on 11th but not for ALB. He is very young and seems very chill. His clerks were happy. Apparently they play ping pong and go river rafting. He is decently well respected. Not as much as Newsom or Grant but way more than Lagoa or Branch.

Thanks. Why aren't Lagoa and Branch as well respected? They seem like solid judges

Newsom and Grant are both pretty prolific feeders and are both target clerkships for top conservative applicants from my school

I've never really heard of anyone distinguishing Brasher vs Lagoa or anything. Kinda seems like they are all lumped together as good, non-feeder clerkships

[Anonymous User]

Former 11th COA clerk here.

Just to clarify: BL's clerks like her. BL is almost entirely remote though, so I would imagine that would impact your experience. If your sole concern was the quality of the clerkship, then I would highly recommend BL. (Branch just seems unpleasant when I interacted with her).

I was more referring to the quality of their work product. Both - for whatever reason - produce subpar work product: badly reasoned, confused, and just wrong. I had initially chalked it up to their lack of federal experience but Luck and Grant both were mainly state judges beforehand and they don't have the same problem. (As evidence, read Judge Lagoa's opinion in Pate - which was just heard en banc in June - or literally anything by Judge Branch). If your concern was "learning a lot about federal appellate litigation and/or legal reasoning," I would rank them low on the list.

And, if your concern is "clerk at SCOTUS" then obviously you need to target WHP, KCN, and BCG.

Finally, I agree with the proposition that there are the feeders (WHP/KCN/BCG) and the rest (ALB/RJL/BL/ELB) but I wanted to flesh out the proposition that not all conservative 11th Cir judges are created equal. I'd clerk for ALB over ELB 100 times out of 100.

[Anonymous User]

Former 11th COA clerk here.

Just to clarify: BL's clerks like her. BL is almost entirely remote though, so I would imagine that would impact your experience. If your sole concern was the quality of the clerkship, then I would highly recommend BL. (Branch just seems unpleasant when I interacted with her).

I was more referring to the quality of their work product. Both - for whatever reason - produce subpar work product: badly reasoned, confused, and just wrong. I had initially chalked it up to their lack of federal experience but Luck and Grant both were mainly state judges beforehand and they don't have the same problem. (As evidence, read Judge Lagoa's opinion in Pate - which was just heard en banc in June - or literally anything by Judge Branch). If your concern was "learning a lot about federal appellate litigation and/or legal reasoning," I would rank them low on the list.

And, if your concern is "clerk at SCOTUS" then obviously you need to target WHP, KCN, and BCG.

Finally, I agree with the proposition that there are the feeders (WHP/KCN/BCG) and the rest (ALB/RJL/BL/ELB) but I wanted to flesh out the proposition that not all conservative 11th Cir judges are created equal. I'd clerk for ALB over ELB 100 times out of 100.

Jeez, what is with the initials? SCOTUS is one thing but do you actually expect people to know the middle names of 11th circuit appellate judges.

[lavarman84]

Former 11th COA clerk here.

Just to clarify: BL's clerks like her. BL is almost entirely remote though, so I would imagine that would impact your experience. If your sole concern was the quality of the clerkship, then I would highly recommend BL. (Branch just seems unpleasant when I interacted with her).

I was more referring to the quality of their work product. Both - for whatever reason - produce subpar work product: badly reasoned, confused, and just wrong. I had initially chalked it up to their lack of federal experience but Luck and Grant both were mainly state judges beforehand and they don't have the same problem. (As evidence, read Judge Lagoa's opinion in Pate - which was just heard en banc in June - or literally anything by Judge Branch). If your concern was "learning a lot about federal appellate litigation and/or legal reasoning," I would rank them low on the list.

And, if your concern is "clerk at SCOTUS" then obviously you need to target WHP, KCN, and BCG.

Finally, I agree with the proposition that there are the feeders (WHP/KCN/BCG) and the rest (ALB/RJL/BL/ELB) but I wanted to flesh out the proposition that not all conservative 11th Cir judges are created equal. I'd clerk for ALB over ELB 100 times out of 100.

For what my opinion is worth as a liberal who practices often before the 11CA , I agree. Newsom, Grant, and Brasher are the three best Trump appointees. Their decisions are well reasoned, and they come off as intelligent jurists. If I were to get a Trump appointee on my panel, I'd want it to be one of those three because I genuinely feel that if I have the better legal argument, I might be able to sway them my way.

After that, Luck would be the next best. He's intelligent, but he's stubborn and can be rather unmovable if your position goes against his preconceived notions. (I'm not saying that isn't true of the aforementioned three, but they at least do a better job of hiding it.) I'd have Branch after Luck. And Lagoa would be the worst in my estimation. Partisan ideologue imo and doesn't come off as that bright either. I will say, though, that I believe her and her husband are very connected in the FedSoc world, so that might be reason enough for conservatives to want to work for her.

Anyways, I doubt any of this is all that helpful because it doesn't speak to clerkship experience, but that's how I see them as a practitioner.

[Anonymous User]

Former 11th COA clerk here.

Just to clarify: BL's clerks like her. BL is almost entirely remote though, so I would imagine that would impact your experience. If your sole concern was the quality of the clerkship, then I would highly recommend BL. (Branch just seems unpleasant when I interacted with her).

I was more referring to the quality of their work product. Both - for whatever reason - produce subpar work product: badly reasoned, confused, and just wrong. I had initially chalked it up to their lack of federal experience but Luck and Grant both were mainly state judges beforehand and they don't have the same problem. (As evidence, read Judge Lagoa's opinion in Pate - which was just heard en banc in June - or literally anything by Judge Branch). If your concern was "learning a lot about federal appellate litigation and/or legal reasoning," I would rank them low on the list.

And, if your concern is "clerk at SCOTUS" then obviously you need to target WHP, KCN, and BCG.

Finally, I agree with the proposition that there are the feeders (WHP/KCN/BCG) and the rest (ALB/RJL/BL/ELB) but I wanted to flesh out the proposition that not all conservative 11th Cir judges are created equal. I'd clerk for ALB over ELB 100 times out of 100.

Jeez, what is with the initials? SCOTUS is one thing but do you actually expect people to know the middle names of 11th circuit appellate judges.

On many (most?) courts that is how judges are referred to internally on almost everything (emails, etc.). After a month you are far more used to typing BCG than "Judge Grant."

[Anonymous User]

Of the feeder judges that top conservative students tend to vie for (Katsas, Thapar, Sutton, Pryor, Oldham, Newsom, Grant, Friedrich, Bibas, etc. -- feel free to let me know if I left anyone off the list), are there any who are known as being particularly good bosses/mentors and giving their clerks a particularly good experience? Conversely, do any of them have negative clerkship experiences (obviously not in terms of career results, but in terms of QoL during the clerkship)?

[Anonymous User]

Of the feeder judges that top conservative students tend to vie for (Katsas, Thapar, Sutton, Pryor, Oldham, Newsom, Grant, Friedrich, Bibas, etc. -- feel free to let me know if I left anyone off the list), are there any who are known as being particularly good bosses/mentors and giving their clerks a particularly good experience? Conversely, do any of them have negative clerkship experiences (obviously not in terms of career results, but in terms of QoL during the clerkship)?

I don’t think any are known to be bad bosses but a lot of them unsurprisingly require long hours and hard work. Pryor, Sutton, Bibas, and Thapar in particular. I’ve heard great things about Newsom.

[BigOhl]

Love how people here are normalizing clerking for judges who are actively trying to take away the rights of women and marginalized communities.

Channeling opinions about specific, debatable matters through the language of “rights of women and marginalized communities” + Disney-channel sarcasm affectation = chef’s kiss

[nixy]

Love how people here are normalizing clerking for judges who are actively trying to take away the rights of women and marginalized communities.

Look I'm as liberal as you get on this forum, but this is a really stupid comment in a thread titled "Best conservative judges to clerk for."

[nixy]

Love how people here are normalizing clerking for judges who are actively trying to take away the rights of women and marginalized communities.

Look I'm as liberal as you get on this forum, but this is a really stupid comment in a thread titled "Best conservative judges to clerk for."

Why is TLS actively supporting the right's takeover of the courts by providing a space for FedSoc students to advance their hateful careers?

Because TLS is a neutral forum not endorsing any political point of view? Why are you posting this anon?

[Anonymous User]

Love how people here are normalizing clerking for judges who are actively trying to take away the rights of women and marginalized communities.

Look I'm as liberal as you get on this forum, but this is a really stupid comment in a thread titled "Best conservative judges to clerk for."

Why is TLS actively supporting the right's takeover of the courts by providing a space for FedSoc students to advance their hateful careers?

Because TLS is a neutral forum not endorsing any political point of view? Why are you posting this anon?

Ever heard of the paradox of tolerance?

If you're going to die on this hill, at least do so under your username.

edit: goddammit. This is nixy.

[Anonymous User]

This is also second-hand but I've heard extremely negative things about Stras. One clerk was fired/quit recently and he's very tough. If you're competitive for Stras, then you're competitive for many other great judges. I'd pick one from the field over Stras if I could.

Colloton has a long-established reputation as a bad boss, so if the rumor mill on Stras is right, there isn't really an all-things-considered good clerkship for conservatives on the Eighth. The two who feed some are rough, the rest don't feed at all (except Gruender once in a blue moon).

It seems like this is right. The best circuits for conservatives wanting a good clerkship seem to be the Sixth (have heard good things about the experience with Sutton, Thapar, Kethledge, Murphy, Readler, Nalbandian, and Bush), the Fifth (ditto with Oldham, Jerry Smith, Ho, Willett, and Edith Jones (depending on who you ask)), and the Eleventh (Pryor, Newsom, Grant, Brasher). The conservative options on the DC and 9th Circuits also seem to be generally good (though I've heard some negative things about the experience with one or two of the Republican appointees on the 9th, but that was all hearsay for me).

Isn't this overstated - maybe not good if u want to clerk for SCOTUS which applies to what like 3 dozen people a year? There are plenty of good clerkships on the 8th

[Anonymous User]

Love how people here are normalizing clerking for judges who are actively trying to take away the rights of women and marginalized communities.

Look I'm as liberal as you get on this forum, but this is a really stupid comment in a thread titled "Best conservative judges to clerk for."

Why is TLS actively supporting the right's takeover of the courts by providing a space for FedSoc students to advance their hateful careers?

Because TLS is a neutral forum not endorsing any political point of view? Why are you posting this anon?

Ever heard of the paradox of tolerance?

Lol, add “misunderstanding the paradox of tolerance, and using it as some sort of universal truth at that” to the list. Go back to Reddit.

[Anonymous User]

This is also second-hand but I've heard extremely negative things about Stras. One clerk was fired/quit recently and he's very tough. If you're competitive for Stras, then you're competitive for many other great judges. I'd pick one from the field over Stras if I could.

Colloton has a long-established reputation as a bad boss, so if the rumor mill on Stras is right, there isn't really an all-things-considered good clerkship for conservatives on the Eighth. The two who feed some are rough, the rest don't feed at all (except Gruender once in a blue moon).

It seems like this is right. The best circuits for conservatives wanting a good clerkship seem to be the Sixth (have heard good things about the experience with Sutton, Thapar, Kethledge, Murphy, Readler, and Bush), the Fifth (ditto with Oldham, Jerry Smith, Ho, Willett, and Edith Jones (depending on who you ask)), and the Eleventh (Pryor, Newsom, Grant, Brasher). The conservative options on the DC and 9th Circuits also seem to be generally good (though I've heard some negative things about the experience with one or two of the Republican appointees on the 9th, but that was all hearsay for me).

I've heard good things about Murphy, Sutton, Thapar, and Readler concerning interpersonal skills. Have not really heard anything about the other Sixth Circuit judges. Unclear where you are hearing goods things interpersonally about Bush, because I have heard very much the opposite.

[Anonymous User]

This is also second-hand but I've heard extremely negative things about Stras. One clerk was fired/quit recently and he's very tough. If you're competitive for Stras, then you're competitive for many other great judges. I'd pick one from the field over Stras if I could.

Colloton has a long-established reputation as a bad boss, so if the rumor mill on Stras is right, there isn't really an all-things-considered good clerkship for conservatives on the Eighth. The two who feed some are rough, the rest don't feed at all (except Gruender once in a blue moon).

It seems like this is right. The best circuits for conservatives wanting a good clerkship seem to be the Sixth (have heard good things about the experience with Sutton, Thapar, Kethledge, Murphy, Readler, and Bush), the Fifth (ditto with Oldham, Jerry Smith, Ho, Willett, and Edith Jones (depending on who you ask)), and the Eleventh (Pryor, Newsom, Grant, Brasher). The conservative options on the DC and 9th Circuits also seem to be generally good (though I've heard some negative things about the experience with one or two of the Republican appointees on the 9th, but that was all hearsay for me).

I've heard good things about Murphy, Sutton, Thapar, and Readler concerning interpersonal skills. Have not really heard anything about the other Sixth Circuit judges. Unclear where you are hearing goods things interpersonally about Bush, because I have heard very much the opposite.

Kethledge doesn't need much of an introduction, and he seems to be a more laid back boss, compared to Sutton and Thapar. This list should also include Larsen, who works hard but is beloved by her clerks. Nalbandian is super chill and extremely well-connected in the FedSoc world, given his background. Murphy is extremely smart and cerebral, and a great boss too (a bit awkward but nice guy). Bush is quirky, but seems to treat his clerks well. Sixth Circuit's a great place to be for a conservative.

[Anonymous User]

This is also second-hand but I've heard extremely negative things about Stras. One clerk was fired/quit recently and he's very tough. If you're competitive for Stras, then you're competitive for many other great judges. I'd pick one from the field over Stras if I could.

Colloton has a long-established reputation as a bad boss, so if the rumor mill on Stras is right, there isn't really an all-things-considered good clerkship for conservatives on the Eighth. The two who feed some are rough, the rest don't feed at all (except Gruender once in a blue moon).

It seems like this is right. The best circuits for conservatives wanting a good clerkship seem to be the Sixth (have heard good things about the experience with Sutton, Thapar, Kethledge, Murphy, Readler, and Bush), the Fifth (ditto with Oldham, Jerry Smith, Ho, Willett, and Edith Jones (depending on who you ask)), and the Eleventh (Pryor, Newsom, Grant, Brasher). The conservative options on the DC and 9th Circuits also seem to be generally good (though I've heard some negative things about the experience with one or two of the Republican appointees on the 9th, but that was all hearsay for me).

I've heard good things about Murphy, Sutton, Thapar, and Readler concerning interpersonal skills. Have not really heard anything about the other Sixth Circuit judges. Unclear where you are hearing goods things interpersonally about Bush, because I have heard very much the opposite.

Kethledge doesn't need much of an introduction, and he seems to be a more laid back boss, compared to Sutton and Thapar. This list should also include Larsen, who works hard but is beloved by her clerks. Nalbandian is super chill and extremely well-connected in the FedSoc world, given his background. Murphy is extremely smart and cerebral, and a great boss too (a bit awkward but nice guy). Bush is quirky, but seems to treat his clerks well. Sixth Circuit's a great place to be for a conservative.

I'll add also that Gibbons is an incredible boss and mentor but she doesn't really hire conservative clerks anymore and seems to have drifted more in the center-left camp (especially compared to the modern judiciary). However, if you're a more moderate conservative not looking for a feeder I would probably apply to her.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think Vivek Ramasawmy is that involved in FedSoc circles, he spoke at national convention once, but by and large its a very DeSantis-supporting membership. His judge list has a few judges attacked on this thread. IMO, these names look like they were chosen out of a hat.

Judges:
Ho (5th Circuit)
Hardiman (3rd Circuit)
Branch (11th Circuit)
Van Dyke (9th Circuit)
Bush (6th Circuit)
Walker (DC Circuit)

Others:
Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Paul Clement

[Anonymous User]

I don't think Vivek Ramasawmy is that involved in FedSoc circles, he spoke at national convention once, but by and large its a very DeSantis-supporting membership. His judge list has a few judges attacked on this thread. IMO, these names look like they were chosen out of a hat.

Judges:
Ho (5th Circuit)
Hardiman (3rd Circuit)
Branch (11th Circuit)
Van Dyke (9th Circuit)
Bush (6th Circuit)
Walker (DC Circuit)

Others:
Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Paul Clement

Hardiman, Walker, and Clement are upstanding men with the intellect to be worthy of consideration. Hardiman is 58 and Clement is 57. I imagine most would consider them too old for consideration.