Getting Fired or Let Go From Clerkship Forum

[sphyrnidae13]

As someone who had a very difficult clerkship, I would say it’s a year stick it out and live to have a career afterwards. It’s an important and close working relationship with a vast power disparity, being not told you’re not doing a good job is more painful than at it would be at a law firm x1000. But once it’s over you get the clerkship on your resume, and it’s possible you’ll learn something and even the Judge will acknowledge improvement (just depends on the issue). Regardless survival to the end is the clear best option.

People assuming the clerks are the problem are making a mistake, your judge is your boss and a clerkship is an honor and a privilege so you should be professional, serious and working your ass off, but some judges are still bad managers, unfair and even abusive. Impossible to know the situation in another chambers.

I feel for the OP, bust your ass do your best so that if the Judge fires you, you can know in your heart it was them not you.

Does anyone have any experience with "sticking it out" when the clerkship is two years as opposed to one? Finding myself in this situation.

Could you explain what you mean or any insights you might have? I’m also curious.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t want to out my former colleague but he came to my firm off of a district court clerkship with a COA clerkship lined up in 1 year. A few months before he was slated to begin that clerkship, the judge unceremoniously emailed him to say the position was no longer available. He was not able to get more information about that decision. He assumed the judge would be taking senior status; however, that did not happen and the judge continues to actively serve. Thankfully, my former colleague was well liked and partners at the firm thought this was a very shitty situation and got to work on his behalf. They landed him another COA clerkship on an equally prestigious court for roughly the same time period as planned. He had to unexpectedly relocate, though.

I’d love to out this judge but it’s not really my story to tell. I’m sure there are many stories about judges treating clerks like trash and the pressures of the industry lining up against the clerk from making any of it public. You are always incentivized not to rock the boat as a clerk, even when you’re wronged.

[HillandHollow]

[
Does anyone have any experience with "sticking it out" when the clerkship is two years as opposed to one? Finding myself in this situation.

Sort of. Feel free to PM me.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a terrible law clerk who has let my judge down countless times and feel ashamed about it.

I came across this opinion today about a clerk who was let go and alleged that she had been discriminated against on account of her pregancy. It turns out that she just didn't do the work, and the work that she did do was bad.

https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/l ... ruling.pdf

"On April 8, 2020, Purvis sent a report to Judge Royal indicating that Clark had 16 pending motions on the current six-month list, including four summary judgment motions and four motions to dismiss .... On July 17, 2020, Judge Royal learned from Purvis that Clark had 22 pending motions on her list of uncompleted work .... Finally, on August 12, 2020, Purvis reported to Judge Royal that Clark had 27 motions pending .... Thus, via Purvis’s reports, Judge Royal be- came aware that Clark’s number of undecided motions kept mounting, despite the judge’s warning to Clark on April 14, 2020 that “the work has to get out” in a timely manner."

The opinion resolving the clerk's complaint is 75 pages long, but you understand why the difficult decision was made. The judge stated that he wanted a complete draft by mid-November, but the clerk took until mid-April. There very many overdue motions causing the judge to appear on the six-month "shame" list. And that list kept piling up. The MSJs and MTDs are especially concerning, because those were likely behemoths each requiring a ton of work. Also, the clerk was repeatedly warned and reminded to get the work done.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a terrible law clerk who has let my judge down countless times and feel ashamed about it.

I came across this opinion today about a clerk who was let go and alleged that she had been discriminated against on account of her pregancy. It turns out that she just didn't do the work, and the work that she did do was bad.

https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/l ... ruling.pdf

"On April 8, 2020, Purvis sent a report to Judge Royal indicating that Clark had 16 pending motions on the current six-month list, including four summary judgment motions and four motions to dismiss .... On July 17, 2020, Judge Royal learned from Purvis that Clark had 22 pending motions on her list of uncompleted work .... Finally, on August 12, 2020, Purvis reported to Judge Royal that Clark had 27 motions pending .... Thus, via Purvis’s reports, Judge Royal be- came aware that Clark’s number of undecided motions kept mounting, despite the judge’s warning to Clark on April 14, 2020 that “the work has to get out” in a timely manner."

The opinion resolving the clerk's complaint is 75 pages long, but you understand why the difficult decision was made. The judge stated that he wanted a complete draft by mid-November, but the clerk took until mid-April. There very many overdue motions causing the judge to appear on the six-month "shame" list. And that list kept piling up. The MSJs and MTDs are especially concerning, because those were likely behemoths each requiring a ton of work. Also, the clerk was repeatedly warned and reminded to get the work done.

So much about this story is bizarre--I don't think anyone comes out of this looking good (though the clerk is obviously especially incompetent)

1. The judge and career clerk didn't know how many cases were on their six-month list?
2. For the first eight months of the clerkship, the judge didn't assign the clerk any MTDs and MSJs, and just had her work on things that take five minutes like motions to amend on consent? That's work a smart courtroom deputy can do.
3. The judge extended her clerkship from two to four years before she had written a MTD or MSJ?
4. The judge gave the clerk 75 days to write an unpublished affirmance in an appeal, and the clerk somehow blew that deadline by two months?
5. Terrible opinions are apparently going out, but the judge isn't catching the mistakes?

[Anonymous User]

Not a clerk but sorry I do not understand this mentality by a judge. It's only a year's employment and it's not coming out of your pocket! If biglaw can wait a year or more before easing people out, you can let a clerk finish out the year. It's the deal you make when you have annually new employees, some will suck. It's just a huge red flag not to understand that.

Firing a clerk is an extreme step, but unlike in a law firm, in a district court chambers there's not really anyone who can pick up the slack for a clerk who isn't getting the work done--everyone is extremely busy.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a terrible law clerk who has let my judge down countless times and feel ashamed about it.

I came across this opinion today about a clerk who was let go and alleged that she had been discriminated against on account of her pregancy. It turns out that she just didn't do the work, and the work that she did do was bad.

https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/l ... ruling.pdf

"On April 8, 2020, Purvis sent a report to Judge Royal indicating that Clark had 16 pending motions on the current six-month list, including four summary judgment motions and four motions to dismiss .... On July 17, 2020, Judge Royal learned from Purvis that Clark had 22 pending motions on her list of uncompleted work .... Finally, on August 12, 2020, Purvis reported to Judge Royal that Clark had 27 motions pending .... Thus, via Purvis’s reports, Judge Royal be- came aware that Clark’s number of undecided motions kept mounting, despite the judge’s warning to Clark on April 14, 2020 that “the work has to get out” in a timely manner."

The opinion resolving the clerk's complaint is 75 pages long, but you understand why the difficult decision was made. The judge stated that he wanted a complete draft by mid-November, but the clerk took until mid-April. There very many overdue motions causing the judge to appear on the six-month "shame" list. And that list kept piling up. The MSJs and MTDs are especially concerning, because those were likely behemoths each requiring a ton of work. Also, the clerk was repeatedly warned and reminded to get the work done.

So much about this story is bizarre--I don't think anyone comes out of this looking good (though the clerk is obviously especially incompetent)

1. The judge and career clerk didn't know how many cases were on their six-month list?
2. For the first eight months of the clerkship, the judge didn't assign the clerk any MTDs and MSJs, and just had her work on things that take five minutes like motions to amend on consent? That's work a smart courtroom deputy can do.
3. The judge extended her clerkship from two to four years before she had written a MTD or MSJ?
4. The judge gave the clerk 75 days to write an unpublished affirmance in an appeal, and the clerk somehow blew that deadline by two months?
5. Terrible opinions are apparently going out, but the judge isn't catching the mistakes?

5 is hardly a surprise. Some judges (senior judges in particular) don't exactly give all of their opinions super close reads before sending them out the door, and place a lot of trust in chambers staff. I, as an extern, wrote multiple opinions that were published, with little or even no editing, by a DJ who I'm quite certain skimmed them at best. They were reviewed by extremely intelligent and attentive clerks before going out, so I don't actually see it as a problem. But that trust can obviously backfire, if that story tells us anything.

[Anonymous User]

Not a clerk but sorry I do not understand this mentality by a judge. It's only a year's employment and it's not coming out of your pocket! If biglaw can wait a year or more before easing people out, you can let a clerk finish out the year. It's the deal you make when you have annually new employees, some will suck. It's just a huge red flag not to understand that.

Firing a clerk is an extreme step, but unlike in a law firm, in a district court chambers there's not really anyone who can pick up the slack for a clerk who isn't getting the work done--everyone is extremely busy.

How does firing help? Are they replacing them with better clerks mid year? Seems like the smart way (leaving aside the morality and ethics) is to make what use you can of the weaker employee.

[Anonymous User]

Not a clerk but sorry I do not understand this mentality by a judge. It's only a year's employment and it's not coming out of your pocket! If biglaw can wait a year or more before easing people out, you can let a clerk finish out the year. It's the deal you make when you have annually new employees, some will suck. It's just a huge red flag not to understand that.

Firing a clerk is an extreme step, but unlike in a law firm, in a district court chambers there's not really anyone who can pick up the slack for a clerk who isn't getting the work done--everyone is extremely busy.

How does firing help? Are they replacing them with better clerks mid year? Seems like the smart way (leaving aside the morality and ethics) is to make what use you can of the weaker employee.

Firing a clerk, without an immediate replacement available (which very few judges have), is a very risky move. It significantly increases the workload for the surviving clerk(s) while killing chambers morale. I am currently in a situation where one of my co-clerks should probably be fired, but the net effect would only be punishment for my other co-clerks and I. The judge is instead assigning the ill-fitting guy all of the easy and unimportant cases, which means the remaining clerks have a more challenging workload, although not necessarily a greater number of cases.

[nixy]

The linked story itself makes clear that it is possible to hire a new clerk on relatively short notice to help/replace the dysfunctional clerk (because that’s what the judge in that account did, by getting authorization to hire a third clerk and reaching out to a law school prof for recommendations). I get that it might not be feasible or work out in every situation and so some judges won’t, but it’s not impossible.

It’s also true that it may not be worth it for a one-year term clerk depending how far into the year you are. But in the linked case, it seems clear that the main issue was that the clerk was going to be continuing for 2 more years, which is a very different context for firing a clerk. Having a not-good clerk finish out their term rather than hire a replacement for 5 months is very different from facing the prospect of the not-good clerk continuing for 2 more years. If it was just a question of this clerk finishing out her original term I doubt she’d have been fired (or at least, it would have been much less likely).