2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know anything about Judge Howell (D.D.C.)?

Haven't been able to rustle up much info about her as a boss, etc.

[Anonymous User]

I work for a COA chambers that is sticking to the Plan. 2Ls -- please don't submit applications to our chambers in the hopes that we'll make an exception for you. We want to see at least one or two more semesters' worth of grades before considering you, and sending in an application with only 1Ls grades despite a clear notice on OSCAR saying we're on the Plan is a good way to get an express trip to the autoding pile.

Sorry. Vent over.

[ph14]

I work for a COA chambers that is sticking to the Plan. 2Ls -- please don't submit applications to our chambers in the hopes that we'll make an exception for you. We want to see at least one or two more semesters' worth of grades before considering you, and sending in an application with only 1Ls grades despite a clear notice on OSCAR saying we're on the Plan is a good way to get an express trip to the autoding pile.

Sorry. Vent over.

You really shouldn't fault applicants. Not every judge updates their Oscar page, and maybe the applicant is unsure whether it is last year, before the plan really collapsed.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Admittedly, the little express statement that YES this judge follows the plan or NO the judge does not follow the plan is new to OSCAR as of the last application cycle, so I can see why judges would expect someone to pay attention to it. But I also sympathize with the applicants - there's always been a significant disconnect between information on OSCAR and how judges actually hire, and now the plan is on life support, so it's even harder for applicants to know what to do. I've just sent out stuff early in the past, hoping not to miss someone's hiring window. (So if I were that judge, I'd just file the early applicants away, and wait to consider them if they updated later with additional grades, rather than auto-dinging them. But of course, the judge gets to hire however they like.)

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, taking it out on the applicant doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Unless your judge explicitly requests you burn those apps, I'd file them (just like the vast majority of your fellow COA chambers do) - the only downside being that if the applicant doesn't send an updated transcript, you won't be able to compare them to those applicants who read the tea leaves correctly and (either through laziness or luck) applied later in the cycle.

If you really want to cut down on early apps, write an explicit note on OSCAR indicating that you will not consider an applicant unless they have x number of semesters of grades on their transcript. The on plan/off plan checkbox is essentially worthless. Were you an alum applicant or something, such that you wouldn't realize how obvious that is? I'd hope anyone who's been on the other end of this ridiculous application process would be slightly more understanding.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if Judge Garth (3rd Cir) really only takes 1 term clerk?

[ClerkAdvisor]

I work for a COA chambers that is sticking to the Plan. 2Ls -- please don't submit applications to our chambers in the hopes that we'll make an exception for you. We want to see at least one or two more semesters' worth of grades before considering you, and sending in an application with only 1Ls grades despite a clear notice on OSCAR saying we're on the Plan is a good way to get an express trip to the autoding pile.

Sorry. Vent over.

A bit petty, eh? It really doesn't take that long to file the apps... Plus, more likely than not, they were going to be rejected anyways... And, how does one even know how to follow the plan? My judges have never followed the plan, but its hard to fault students applying early when, if I recall correctly, they moved up the plan date by 3 months in the middle of the application process.

That said, students would be well-advised to apply earlier than later.

[Anonymous User]

I work for a COA chambers that is sticking to the Plan. 2Ls -- please don't submit applications to our chambers in the hopes that we'll make an exception for you. We want to see at least one or two more semesters' worth of grades before considering you, and sending in an application with only 1Ls grades despite a clear notice on OSCAR saying we're on the Plan is a good way to get an express trip to the autoding pile.

Sorry. Vent over.

OP here. I admit the comment was a bit hastily made, and I figure I have some 'splainin to do. If I were a clerkship applicant, I would follow the general rule to apply early if the judge was known to be off plan or it wasn't clear from an OSCAR posting, etc. If there was an old "we stick to the hiring plan" message from the '13 or '14 cycle, I might give the chambers a call and just ask if they intend on staying with the Plan for the '15 cycle. If the clerkship description said the chambers was on plan or there was some other indication on OSCAR that the judge was sticking to the Plan for the upcoming cycle, I'd probably hold off on an application.

In any event, we do file applications and will give everyone a serious look once Plan time rolls around again. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise (just so current applicants can rest easy). The autoding comment was crudely constructed and wasn't well thought out. Mea culpa. It really was directed at the rare applicant who submits an application explicitly stating in their cover letter something to the effect of, "I saw on your OSCAR posting that you're not taking applications now, but just in case you are, here it is." I sympathize with someone who just doesn't know what the timeline is and takes a chance. But if you tell us in your cover letter that you know we're not taking applications now and admit that you've decided to send one in anyway, I suppose I'm not as sympathetic. If you're not sure what the tea leaves say, it may be best to refrain from mentioning the fact that our OSCAR posting says we're on plan.

ClerkAdvisor is absolutely correct. Aside from calling chambers, there is just no way of knowing whether a judge is on plan. Even the old data are unreliable because the Plan dates keep moving up and judges may have changed their minds in light of the June timetable.

[bruinfan10]

That makes sense. And I will say that I did call all the chambers to which I applied for my first clerkship to make sure I wouldn't offend anyone by sending an application early. But I don't think many people feel comfortable intruding into chambers like that, and many JA's aren't too keen on it.

[Arbiter213]

So glad to have aged out of the plan restrictions.

[bk1]

I work for a COA chambers that is sticking to the Plan. 2Ls -- please don't submit applications to our chambers in the hopes that we'll make an exception for you. We want to see at least one or two more semesters' worth of grades before considering you, and sending in an application with only 1Ls grades despite a clear notice on OSCAR saying we're on the Plan is a good way to get an express trip to the autoding pile.

Sorry. Vent over.

You really shouldn't fault applicants. Not every judge updates their Oscar page, and maybe the applicant is unsure whether it is last year, before the plan really collapsed.

Not only this where information is out of date, but I have seen plenty of judges have patently false information posted on OSCAR.

As for advice to applicants: I think there is a very real chance (as evinced by the anon) that submitting too early can get you autodinged though I don't think that it's applicable to a large percentage of judges. Obviously the ideal time to apply is when the judge is looking at applications, but the reality is that it isn't always that easy to time things perfectly. I think the best thing to do is err on the side of submitting too early since the downside of too early (some judges will autoding you) is far smaller than the downside of too late (the judge is no longer hiring).

[hoos89]

.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yes to sending off-plan apps by snail-mail (unless there's info somewhere that the chambers accepts applications by e-mail, but IME that's uncommon).

As for contacting chambers - I don't think it generally hurts (it's not like you have to ID yourself), it's just a lot of work if you're sending out a reasonable number of applications. Also, what year are you in school? If you're a 3L, absolutely send everything ASAP - you're way behind the curve. If you're a 2L, though, I would wait till you get fall grades back - that's still pretty early, even with the plan change (unless you're applying to the uber-selective REALLY-early hirers, but if that's the case, you probably have other people you can ask about this).

[Arbiter213]

Yes to sending off-plan apps by snail-mail (unless there's info somewhere that the chambers accepts applications by e-mail, but IME that's uncommon).

As for contacting chambers - I don't think it generally hurts (it's not like you have to ID yourself), it's just a lot of work if you're sending out a reasonable number of applications. Also, what year are you in school? If you're a 3L, absolutely send everything ASAP - you're way behind the curve. If you're a 2L, though, I would wait till you get fall grades back - that's still pretty early, even with the plan change (unless you're applying to the uber-selective REALLY-early hirers, but if that's the case, you probably have other people you can ask about this).

This is the 15-16 thread- arguably for non DC/2d circuit, this is still too early to apply even as a 3L.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yes to sending off-plan apps by snail-mail (unless there's info somewhere that the chambers accepts applications by e-mail, but IME that's uncommon).

As for contacting chambers - I don't think it generally hurts (it's not like you have to ID yourself), it's just a lot of work if you're sending out a reasonable number of applications. Also, what year are you in school? If you're a 3L, absolutely send everything ASAP - you're way behind the curve. If you're a 2L, though, I would wait till you get fall grades back - that's still pretty early, even with the plan change (unless you're applying to the uber-selective REALLY-early hirers, but if that's the case, you probably have other people you can ask about this).

This is the 15-16 thread- arguably for non DC/2d circuit, this is still too early to apply even as a 3L.

RC fail. Sorry.

[hoos89]

https://oscar.symplicity.com/blog_post/ ... iring_Plan


2Ls can now sign up. Also looks like you can send apps through OSCAR ahead of the hiring plan.

[Anonymous User]

Pooler has hired at least one for 15-16.

[Danger Zone]

https://oscar.symplicity.com/blog_post/ ... iring_Plan


2Ls can now sign up. Also looks like you can send apps through OSCAR ahead of the hiring plan.

In. There are a lot of judges that appear to be looking at apps from 2Ls already. Geez, I thought I was getting in on this early

[hoos89]

.

[Scotusnerd]

I work for a COA chambers that is sticking to the Plan. 2Ls -- please don't submit applications to our chambers in the hopes that we'll make an exception for you. We want to see at least one or two more semesters' worth of grades before considering you, and sending in an application with only 1Ls grades despite a clear notice on OSCAR saying we're on the Plan is a good way to get an express trip to the autoding pile.

Sorry. Vent over.

Anon, could you update us on this now that the bombshell about the plan being scrapped dropped? I'm curious as to what you folks are up to.

[Anonymous User]

I work for a COA chambers that is sticking to the Plan. 2Ls -- please don't submit applications to our chambers in the hopes that we'll make an exception for you. We want to see at least one or two more semesters' worth of grades before considering you, and sending in an application with only 1Ls grades despite a clear notice on OSCAR saying we're on the Plan is a good way to get an express trip to the autoding pile.

Sorry. Vent over.

Anon, could you update us on this now that the bombshell about the plan being scrapped dropped? I'm curious as to what you folks are up to.

We're reevaluating our hiring schedule. In the meantime, I'll stick to the advice I gave later on in this thread: apply unless you have reason not to (e.g., OSCAR post says don't apply if you don't have at least one semester's worth of 2L grades).

OP here. I admit the comment was a bit hastily made, and I figure I have some 'splainin to do. If I were a clerkship applicant, I would follow the general rule to apply early if the judge was known to be off plan or it wasn't clear from an OSCAR posting, etc. If there was an old "we stick to the hiring plan" message from the '13 or '14 cycle, I might give the chambers a call and just ask if they intend on staying with the Plan for the '15 cycle. If the clerkship description said the chambers was on plan or there was some other indication on OSCAR that the judge was sticking to the Plan for the upcoming cycle, I'd probably hold off on an application.

[Anonymous User]

If you have a 2014 district clerkship and are applying for 2015 circuit clerkships, how should that be signaled in your application? In the cover letter?

[A. Nony Mouse]

I would definitely mention it in your cover letter, although it should be listed on your resume anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Updates? Rumors about who is interviewing?

[Anonymous User]

Updates? Rumors about who is interviewing?

Griffith on DC Cir.
Reinhardt on 9th.