Best and worst judges to clerk for Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about Friedland on CA9?

Only that she's brilliant. Fmr CA9 clerk here; did not clerk for Friedland but she's one of the best young lefties on the Circuit. She and her clerks both work hard. I knew one person who clerked for her. That person had impeccable credentials (think HYS, law review, name-brand D. Ct. clerkship prior). Friedland's terrific.

Now that Kozinski is gone, Friedland's clerks probably work the most hours in the circuit.

Ikuta (and her clerks) would disagree.

How many hours a week do Ikuta clerks work in comparison to Friedland clerks? What about Watford clerks?

This is all second/thirdhand, but Ikuta I've heard 60+ (+= however much weekend work, sounded like ~60 per workweek), and that Watford is actually fairly reasonable for a feeder judge, but not sure exactly how much that entails...

Cool thanks! So it sounds like Ikuta/Friedland clerks work the longest hours on the circuit.

I think Rawlinson clerks might raise their hands here too. Unlike Ikuta and Friedland, Rawlinson isn't in the bench memo pool, which means her clerks have three times the memos to write, and she apparently also requires her clerks to do much more administrative-type work like prepping binders and highlighting printouts. I got the sense that her clerks worked similar hours to Ikuta/Friedland, and that the hours weren't as compelling.

Watford might be the chillest clerkship on the circuit and one of the chillest high-level clerkships anywhere (maybe he's the liberal equivalent of Jerry Smith). His clerks wear polo shirts to work and don't write bench memos, and you get a ton of substantive face time with him. There aren't many clerkships I'd take in the country over Watford.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into some of the other CD Cal judges who haven't been mentioned yet?

A previous posted said that Anderson, Walter, and Wright don't have the greatest reputation from lawyers practicing in front of them, but uncertain regarding how clerks feel.

Someone also said they've heard good things from former clerks about: Phillips, Klausner, Carney, Gutierrez, Wu, Fitzgerald, Birotte, Lew, and Pregerson.

Any information on Staton, Bernal, Carter, Fischer, Hatter, Keller, Kronstadt, Marshall, Olguin, Selna, Snyder, Wilson? (Or any of the three judges that previous poster is uncertain about RE: chambers environment?)

[Anonymous User]

A previous posted said that Anderson, Walter, and Wright don't have the greatest reputation from lawyers practicing in front of them, but uncertain regarding how clerks feel.

I'd recommend avoiding Wright. He's prickly and moody. There are some good aspects to working for him, but if he decides he doesn't like you (for whatever reason), you're in for a really shitty year (in addition to some other issues).

[lavarman84]

Watford might be the chillest clerkship on the circuit and one of the chillest high-level clerkships anywhere (maybe he's the liberal equivalent of Jerry Smith). His clerks wear polo shirts to work and don't write bench memos, and you get a ton of substantive face time with him. There aren't many clerkships I'd take in the country over Watford.

That's interesting. Do they not do bench memos?

[Anonymous User]

Watford might be the chillest clerkship on the circuit and one of the chillest high-level clerkships anywhere (maybe he's the liberal equivalent of Jerry Smith). His clerks wear polo shirts to work and don't write bench memos, and you get a ton of substantive face time with him. There aren't many clerkships I'd take in the country over Watford.

That's interesting. Do they not do bench memos?

Nope. One of his clerks described the process as a holistic review and it seemed like the amount of work product varied by the case. It sounded like Watford didn't care for the formalities of the standard bench memo process and just wanted to be up to speed on the cases.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into some of the other CD Cal judges who haven't been mentioned yet?

A previous posted said that Anderson, Walter, and Wright don't have the greatest reputation from lawyers practicing in front of them, but uncertain regarding how clerks feel.

Someone also said they've heard good things from former clerks about: Phillips, Klausner, Carney, Gutierrez, Wu, Fitzgerald, Birotte, Lew, and Pregerson.

Any information on Staton, Bernal, Carter, Fischer, Hatter, Keller, Kronstadt, Marshall, Olguin, Selna, Snyder, Wilson? (Or any of the three judges that previous poster is uncertain about RE: chambers environment?)

Also interested in hearing more about some of the judges people haven't posted about, particularly Staton, Carter, Selna, and Olguin.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into some of the other CD Cal judges who haven't been mentioned yet?

A previous posted said that Anderson, Walter, and Wright don't have the greatest reputation from lawyers practicing in front of them, but uncertain regarding how clerks feel.

Someone also said they've heard good things from former clerks about: Phillips, Klausner, Carney, Gutierrez, Wu, Fitzgerald, Birotte, Lew, and Pregerson.

Any information on Staton, Bernal, Carter, Fischer, Hatter, Keller, Kronstadt, Marshall, Olguin, Selna, Snyder, Wilson? (Or any of the three judges that previous poster is uncertain about RE: chambers environment?)

Also interested in hearing more about some of the judges people haven't posted about, particularly Staton, Carter, Selna, and Olguin.

A former clerk told me the following: Carter works his clerks pretty hard//long hours and is a stern (harsh?) personality with litigants but kind enough to clerks. Not warm and fuzzy to be sure. Cares a lot about fairness but not so much about intellectual/legal exchanges. He travels a lot internationally (for nonprofit/various extracurricular interests) so that makes schedule a little variable/chambers environment varies based on whether he is there or not (more relaxed//less structure when he's traveling).

Have heard from multiple clerks that Kronstadt is fantastic, kind, sharp. Caring mentor. Somewhat fatherly/avuncular/what have you. Longish hours and some weekends due to heavy caseload. Mostly seems to hire above-median/LR ppl from HYS, many (most?) of whom have good appellate clerkships on the 9th Cir. etc. afterwards.

I have heard the following from other clerks in the courthouse (who clerked for judges other than those below, so take with grain of salt)

Selna:
– Sweet, very shy
– Moderate, sometimes conservative
– Keeps lowkey chambers; calm; organized
– Prefers clerks to be very professional etc dressing
– Not overly social chambers or big debates
– Pretty good work-life balance

Staton:
– Leads v active lifestyle
– Keeps very strict professional chambers
– Redlines orders, very engaged, discussions about finer points of law
– Strict schedule
– Formal judge-clerk relationship, not much personal life sharing
– Clerks seemed to love and respect her
– Good mentor not in an overly personal way

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into some of the other CD Cal judges who haven't been mentioned yet?

A previous posted said that Anderson, Walter, and Wright don't have the greatest reputation from lawyers practicing in front of them, but uncertain regarding how clerks feel.

Someone also said they've heard good things from former clerks about: Phillips, Klausner, Carney, Gutierrez, Wu, Fitzgerald, Birotte, Lew, and Pregerson.

Any information on Staton, Bernal, Carter, Fischer, Hatter, Keller, Kronstadt, Marshall, Olguin, Selna, Snyder, Wilson? (Or any of the three judges that previous poster is uncertain about RE: chambers environment?)

I have friends who clerked for Phillips and Bernal and loved their experiences.

[Anonymous User]

In perusing this thread, I've seen plenty of negatives listed for clerking for a new judge: (1) the judge doesn't have his/her processes nailed down yet, and so is less able to effectively mentor clerks; (2) hours will likely be longer as the judge attempts to make his/her name on the bench and smooths out his/her inefficiencies; (3) there is no network of clerks to leverage for post-graduate employment; (4) he/she is less established and therefore less "prestigious" (though this can improve over time - every judge was a newly appointed judge at some point).

So, my question is: are there any upsides to clerking for a newly appointed judge?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have intel on Judge Dorsey (D. Nev)?

[Reese1]

In perusing this thread, I've seen plenty of negatives listed for clerking for a new judge: (1) the judge doesn't have his/her processes nailed down yet, and so is less able to effectively mentor clerks; (2) hours will likely be longer as the judge attempts to make his/her name on the bench and smooths out his/her inefficiencies; (3) there is no network of clerks to leverage for post-graduate employment; (4) he/she is less established and therefore less "prestigious" (though this can improve over time - every judge was a newly appointed judge at some point).

So, my question is: are there any upsides to clerking for a newly appointed judge?

I think there are plenty of upsides to working for a new judge. New judges do not have public opinions on a lot of issues yet, so you have more influence in molding their decision making. They do not have a whole network of clerks to take care of, so you will probably get more mentorship/assistance after you clerk. Judges are probably closer with their first few clerk classes than their 22nd. Younger judges may also be more amenable to working from home or relaxed dress codes (obviously this depends on the judge). Later down the line, the judge will still be an active figure in the legal community, whereas an older judge may have retired.

I think there is a thread somewhere on this very question IIRC.

[Anonymous User]

In perusing this thread, I've seen plenty of negatives listed for clerking for a new judge: (1) the judge doesn't have his/her processes nailed down yet, and so is less able to effectively mentor clerks; (2) hours will likely be longer as the judge attempts to make his/her name on the bench and smooths out his/her inefficiencies; (3) there is no network of clerks to leverage for post-graduate employment; (4) he/she is less established and therefore less "prestigious" (though this can improve over time - every judge was a newly appointed judge at some point).

So, my question is: are there any upsides to clerking for a newly appointed judge?

This is a little cynical, although I don't think you're 100% wrong. Even if a judge doesn't have a clerk network yet, they still have their pre-judicial network and can certainly connect you with the right people. And I think judges who care about being mentors will make time to do so no matter what (and there are "older" judges who are terrible mentors, too).

The main upside to clerking for a new judge is they're going to be on the bench for a larger part of your career, and if they're a good mentor, they'll be there for you for decades. I also think there is some value to clerking for someone who has (for lack of a better word) a more modern approach to things. And while all judges have excellent connections, a new judge might have stronger connections to their former employers/colleagues based on how recently they worked there.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have intel on Judge Dorsey (D. Nev)?

A friend clerked for her and loved the experience. She's very well regarded in the Las Vegas legal community and has gotten some national attention for her legal writing style (she tries to write as clearly and directly as possible and forgoes the usual judge-speak). Hours seemed reasonable and she seemed like a nice person.

Judge Dorsey also has a unique setup where she and Judge Gordon have a combined chambers (think connecting hotel rooms) that share the 6 staff positions they're allotted. Each judge has one dedicated term clerk and one dedicated career clerk, and they share an additional term clerk and a JA.

[Anonymous User]

In perusing this thread, I've seen plenty of negatives listed for clerking for a new judge: (1) the judge doesn't have his/her processes nailed down yet, and so is less able to effectively mentor clerks; (2) hours will likely be longer as the judge attempts to make his/her name on the bench and smooths out his/her inefficiencies; (3) there is no network of clerks to leverage for post-graduate employment; (4) he/she is less established and therefore less "prestigious" (though this can improve over time - every judge was a newly appointed judge at some point).

So, my question is: are there any upsides to clerking for a newly appointed judge?

I think there are plenty of upsides to working for a new judge. New judges do not have public opinions on a lot of issues yet, so you have more influence in molding their decision making. They do not have a whole network of clerks to take care of, so you will probably get more mentorship/assistance after you clerk. Judges are probably closer with their first few clerk classes than their 22nd. Younger judges may also be more amenable to working from home or relaxed dress codes (obviously this depends on the judge). Later down the line, the judge will still be an active figure in the legal community, whereas an older judge may have retired.

I think there is a thread somewhere on this very question IIRC.

I clerked for a new court of appeals judge and totally agree with all of these pluses. The minuses are real and shouldn't be diminished, but on the whole I'm glad I went this route rather than clerking for a more established judge. It was really important to me that I felt like my judge was always open to seeing things from a new angle; I often did not get that impression both from observing other judges when we had sittings with them, and talking with their clerks. And that open attitude extended to other aspects of chambers life, like clerk hiring and setting up chambers processes for memos, dispositions, etc. I also found my judge a lot easier to relate to since he/she was closer to my age. And I don't think the hours were that bad, compared to some of the more workhouse judges on the circuit; we never came in on weekends and rarely stayed past 7pm, though that's not to say it didn't happen from time to time.

The other downside I'd add is I have heard many new judges, and new court of appeals judges in particular, want to write all of their opinions at first, without giving their clerks a chance to write the first draft. My judge didn't do that, but I heard it from some other clerks for new judges.

I think the downsides are more intense for new district court judges, especially those without much trial experience or criminal experience. I would not want to pull the hours probably required to help a new district court judge through a criminal trial, although I'm sure you'd learn a ton in the process.

[namefromplace]

Any experience with D. Oregon judges and 9th Circuit judges in Portland (Hunsaker, Graber)?

[Anonymous User]

Any experience with D. Oregon judges and 9th Circuit judges in Portland (Hunsaker, Graber)?

^Also curious about this!

[Anonymous User]

Any experience with D. Oregon judges and 9th Circuit judges in Portland (Hunsaker, Graber)?

^Also curious about this!

I have heard that Judge McShane is a wonderful, kind person. It seems that most district judges in Oregon don't use Oscar/participate in the normal clerkship hiring timelines. The exception appears to be Judge Immergut. She is a Trump appointee but my school's clerkship office says she is moderate (no fed soc membership, appointed to the state bench by a Dem governor) and very well-respected in the Oregon legal community. Haven't heard anything about the other judges.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have intel on Judge Dorsey (D. Nev)?

A friend clerked for her and loved the experience. She's very well regarded in the Las Vegas legal community and has gotten some national attention for her legal writing style (she tries to write as clearly and directly as possible and forgoes the usual judge-speak). Hours seemed reasonable and she seemed like a nice person.

Judge Dorsey also has a unique setup where she and Judge Gordon have a combined chambers (think connecting hotel rooms) that share the 6 staff positions they're allotted. Each judge has one dedicated term clerk and one dedicated career clerk, and they share an additional term clerk and a JA.

Does anyone have intel on Gordon, by chance? (Also, whether he's moved or not - all his apps were due by mail)

[silqcxaol]

Any info on Wilson in CD Cal?

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into some of the other CD Cal judges who haven't been mentioned yet?

A previous posted said that Anderson, Walter, and Wright don't have the greatest reputation from lawyers practicing in front of them, but uncertain regarding how clerks feel.

Someone also said they've heard good things from former clerks about: Phillips, Klausner, Carney, Gutierrez, Wu, Fitzgerald, Birotte, Lew, and Pregerson.

Any information on Staton, Bernal, Carter, Fischer, Hatter, Keller, Kronstadt, Marshall, Olguin, Selna, Snyder, Wilson? (Or any of the three judges that previous poster is uncertain about RE: chambers environment?)

Also interested in hearing more about some of the judges people haven't posted about, particularly Staton, Carter, Selna, and Olguin.

A former clerk told me the following: Carter works his clerks pretty hard//long hours and is a stern (harsh?) personality with litigants but kind enough to clerks. Not warm and fuzzy to be sure. Cares a lot about fairness but not so much about intellectual/legal exchanges. He travels a lot internationally (for nonprofit/various extracurricular interests) so that makes schedule a little variable/chambers environment varies based on whether he is there or not (more relaxed//less structure when he's traveling).

Have heard from multiple clerks that Kronstadt is fantastic, kind, sharp. Caring mentor. Somewhat fatherly/avuncular/what have you. Longish hours and some weekends due to heavy caseload. Mostly seems to hire above-median/LR ppl from HYS, many (most?) of whom have good appellate clerkships on the 9th Cir. etc. afterwards.

I have heard the following from other clerks in the courthouse (who clerked for judges other than those below, so take with grain of salt)

Selna:
– Sweet, very shy
– Moderate, sometimes conservative
– Keeps lowkey chambers; calm; organized
– Prefers clerks to be very professional etc dressing
– Not overly social chambers or big debates
– Pretty good work-life balance

Staton:
– Leads v active lifestyle
– Keeps very strict professional chambers
– Redlines orders, very engaged, discussions about finer points of law
– Strict schedule
– Formal judge-clerk relationship, not much personal life sharing
– Clerks seemed to love and respect her
– Good mentor not in an overly personal way

Another current or former CDCA clerk checking in. Haven't heard anything about the practicalities of clerking for Walter/Anderson, apart from the mixed reputations of the judges themselves. Judge Wright is a gregarious and fun character, and some former clerks I've spoken with appear to like working for him. But his reputation as a judge is mixed.

I've heard especially good things about -- in alphabetical order --

• Birotte (both the USAO and FPD offices have tremendous respect for him, he is viewed as a top-notch judge by the local bar, and he is apparently a great boss);

• Gutierrez (all-around nice guy, always seems to have a smile at local bar events, and his former clerks love him);

• Hatter (famous for hosting social events at his chambers for all clerks, but he's older, and his caseload might be tapering down);

• Klausner (apparently, a very, very funny guy; working hours are shorter);

• Kronstadt (writes long and thorough opinions, so his clerks work hard; known to be personally kind; appears to hire top students (e.g., SLS SCOTUS Clinic alums); most clerks go on to good circuit clerkships);

• Phillips (very sweet lady and a meticulous judge -- owns two dogs, and brings them to court occasionally; her tenure as Chief was viewed favorably by most people in the local bar; also tends to hire top students from top schools); and

• Pregerson (his reputation as a great jurist and good boss precedes him; he requires very stringent grades (recent clerks have gone on to feeder clerkships), and caseload seems quite low these days).

Other good judges appear to be Carney (outgoing guy, very humane hours); Bernal (very caring boss, but you have to be in Riverside, which seems unpleasant); Fischer (very hardworking, very involved on court governance, a pillar of the LA legal community, and a very good jurist); Marshall (a very nice, older judge -- exceptionally kind and caring to parties, not sure about what it's like to clerk for her); Snyder (like Kronstadt, seems to write longer opinions; likes to select very interesting cases for her clerks, since she can do so as a senior judge); and Wilson (appears to hire heavily out of Munger, and his former clerks seem to love him -- though he can be a bit sardonic on the bench).

Have heard mixed things about the personalities of Carter, Lew, and Wu, but nothing so bad that it's a red flag, or anything like that. Have heard nothing good or bad about the other judges.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into the ND Cal judges?

[namefromplace]

Does anyone have intel on Judge Dorsey (D. Nev)?

A friend clerked for her and loved the experience. She's very well regarded in the Las Vegas legal community and has gotten some national attention for her legal writing style (she tries to write as clearly and directly as possible and forgoes the usual judge-speak). Hours seemed reasonable and she seemed like a nice person.

Judge Dorsey also has a unique setup where she and Judge Gordon have a combined chambers (think connecting hotel rooms) that share the 6 staff positions they're allotted. Each judge has one dedicated term clerk and one dedicated career clerk, and they share an additional term clerk and a JA.

Does anyone have intel on Gordon, by chance? (Also, whether he's moved or not - all his apps were due by mail)

I know someone who clerked for Gordon who had a positive experience. They said they actually appreciated the career clerk and that it allowed for more of a gradual learning curve (i.e. when they screwed up at the beginning of the clerkship, the career clerk was able to guide them without embarrassing them in front of the judge).

[Anonymous User]

Since someone mentioned Hatter, I'd note that he doesn't hire term clerks. He has one true career clerk and one who serves a four-year term

[GoneSouth]

Any insight into the ND Cal judges?

I don't know much about ND Cal judges, but I've had some opportunities to interact with Judge Tigar and he seems like a great guy. Clerks seem to really like him too.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into the ND Cal judges?

I don't know much about ND Cal judges, but I've had some opportunities to interact with Judge Tigar and he seems like a great guy. Clerks seem to really like him too.

+1 for Tigar. I know both externs/former clerks who uniformly talk about how great the chambers experience is and practitioners in the Bay really respect him.