Best and worst judges to clerk for Forum

[Anonymous User]

Given her connections to SCOTUS, I'd think Kovner is going to require borderline feeder credentials. Every every right-of-center gunner in the country will apply. And probably plenty of liberals too -- she's in NY, was in the SG's office, wasn't a controversial appointee.

I know from a prof who’s been in touch with the judge that she has indeed received a ton of killer apps.

Think she'll be a Chhabria-level feeder right out of the gate?

FWIW, Kovner is perhaps alarmingly apolitical -- mentioning FedSoc may actually be a minus -- and stresses competence above anything else in the application process. She is awesome.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have recent insights on EDNY judges (specifically Amon, Brodie, Chen, Cogan, Kovner, Kuntz, Mauskopf)? What it's like to clerk for them, how competitive hiring is, etc. Also who the most competitive EDNY judges are?

Ross appears to be the only EDNY judge who meaningfully feeds to the Second Circuit - but she hires only public interest-oriented candidates.

Two Matsumoto clerks have made their way to Justice Sotomayor for the October 2017 term.

Median GPA is top 25% at T6.

Amon, Garaufis, and Korman also feed regularly to the Second Circuit (Amon and Korman both have had streaks of DC and 9th circuit clerks, too). They are are pretty old school about grades and schools, and the vast majority of active judges are not. Like others here, I'm sure Kovner's clerks will have the credentials for 2/9/DC and then potentially SCOTUS, but it might depend on whether she can hitch her clerkship to one of the mini-feeders in the Second or DC Circuit, like Livingston, Katsas, or Rao.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have recent insights on EDNY judges (specifically Amon, Brodie, Chen, Cogan, Kovner, Kuntz, Mauskopf)? What it's like to clerk for them, how competitive hiring is, etc. Also who the most competitive EDNY judges are?

Ross appears to be the only EDNY judge who meaningfully feeds to the Second Circuit - but she hires only public interest-oriented candidates.

Two Matsumoto clerks have made their way to Justice Sotomayor for the October 2017 term.

Median GPA is top 25% at T6.

Amon, Garaufis, and Korman also feed regularly to the Second Circuit (Amon and Korman both have had streaks of DC and 9th circuit clerks, too). They are are pretty old school about grades and schools, and the vast majority of active judges are not. Like others here, I'm sure Kovner's clerks will have the credentials for 2/9/DC and then potentially SCOTUS, but it might depend on whether she can hitch her clerkship to one of the mini-feeders in the Second or DC Circuit, like Livingston, Katsas, or Rao. (EDIT: I'm not sure about how political she wants her future clerks to be, but if she continues to hire apolitical clerks, maybe not Katsas or Rao.)

Edited: In light of comments below, I'm clarifying that I understand "feeder" in this context largely to mean that the clerks there also end up having CA2/CA9/CADC clerkships either before or after, and that, occasionally, these judges will help place them in certain chambers. Amon, Garaufis, Korman, and Ross all have clerks satisfying the former. And I understand at least Amon and Korman to have helped get their clerks positions on CA2 in the past.

[Anonymous User]

I have the sense that Eric Komitee is also very connected to various 2nd Cir. judges

[LBJ's Hair]

very confused with this "CA2 feeder" discussion. COA hiring isn't like the Supreme Court: lot of people get their COA clerkship before district court.

[anonymous117]

very confused with this "feeder" to CA2 discussion. it's not like the Supreme Court. lot of people get their COA clerkship first.

This. And because of that, maybe it’s the case that some of these district court judges are drawn to people who always have COA (and due to geography obviously CA2) clerkships

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel about D.N.J. judges?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel about D.N.J. judges?

Have not heard anything strongly negative about any of them. Due to the number of vacancies on the court, all (especially non-seniors) are very very busy. Cecchi, Salas, McNulty, Arleo, Thompson are all supposedly great bosses. Salas hires former interns pretty heavily. From people in the local USAO, I’ve heard mixed things about Wigenton. Kugler is a very hands off boss, so clerks learn a lot.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Vance (E.D. La.)?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel about D.N.J. judges?

Have not heard anything strongly negative about any of them. Due to the number of vacancies on the court, all (especially non-seniors) are very very busy. Cecchi, Salas, McNulty, Arleo, Thompson are all supposedly great bosses. Salas hires former interns pretty heavily. From people in the local USAO, I’ve heard mixed things about Wigenton. Kugler is a very hands off boss, so clerks learn a lot.

I clerked for the DNJ in Camden. It was an excellent experience. The judges all get along and the clerks have pretty great access across the courthouse. The clerks also do weekly lunches, bagels, play softball together, etc. The judges there were all great, Kugler especially. I also heard strong sentiments about Judges Thompson and McNutley (outside of Camden). I'm sure there's a ton more.

I highly recommend the DNJ clerkship, particularly Camden. You can live in Philly for cheap; the commute is easy; the courthouse is super tight; and its almost expected that you'll go watch interesting proceedings that spring up in other chambers. Yes, the docket is busy, but the hours were not bad at all. Few juries were picked in the summer, and summer fridays were a thing, atleast when I was there. I also fondly recall the informal dress code on days with no in-court matters.

[Anonymous User]

Any bad N.D. Tex. judges?

No real horror stories. As to workload, Lindsey and Lynn work clerks pretty hard, as does O'Connor (who hires mostly through fed soc). A bunch of the judges are new, so you won't hear much reliable intel on, say, Starr, Hendrix, Kacsmaryk, Brown, or Pittman---although I've heard anecdotally that Pittman is fine. Fish, Cummings, and McBryde are all great to work for.

Thanks for this. Do you have any specifics on what it's like to work for Godbey or Boyle? Since they've been on the bench for over a decade, I figured there would be some decent information out there. As far as Godbey goes, at least, I wasn't able to turn up much of anything searching on TLS.

Hendrix is anecdotally very well-regarded in DOJ circles.

I worked at Main Justice when Hendrix was confirmed and the career DOJ folks could not sing his praises more highly. Wouldn't be shocked if he is on CA5 at some point because he'd be easily confirmed in divided government.

[Anonymous User]

How "conservative" is Duane Benton?

[Anonymous User]

Anybody have experience with D. Ariz.?

[Anonymous User]

Anybody have experience with D. Ariz.?

+1 interested in Bolton

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel on E.D. Michigan judges? Specifically Drain or Goldsmith.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have recent insights on EDNY judges (specifically Amon, Brodie, Chen, Cogan, Kovner, Kuntz, Mauskopf)? What it's like to clerk for them, how competitive hiring is, etc. Also who the most competitive EDNY judges are?

When I spoke to recent Brodie clerks they said they work long hours (not uncommon to have 12 hour days, weekend work).

Seconding this. A word that came to mind from clerks I spoke to; "perfectionist". An associate of the NY V10 I summered at (who was clerking in EDNY for another judge) said she worked people as much/more than the firm.

That said, the clerks seemed to find it a worthwhile experience, just be prepared for the hours.

Does anyone have more to say about Brodie? I'm at a T6 but no one at my school has clerked for her in the past two years, so have no one to speak with.

[lavarman84]

Anyone have recent insights on EDNY judges (specifically Amon, Brodie, Chen, Cogan, Kovner, Kuntz, Mauskopf)? What it's like to clerk for them, how competitive hiring is, etc. Also who the most competitive EDNY judges are?

When I spoke to recent Brodie clerks they said they work long hours (not uncommon to have 12 hour days, weekend work).

Seconding this. A word that came to mind from clerks I spoke to; "perfectionist". An associate of the NY V10 I summered at (who was clerking in EDNY for another judge) said she worked people as much/more than the firm.

That said, the clerks seemed to find it a worthwhile experience, just be prepared for the hours.

Does anyone have more to say about Brodie? I'm at a T6 but no one at my school has clerked for her in the past two years, so have no one to speak with.

You can reach out to former law clerks who didn't go to your law school.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone heard of D. Maryland movement?

Hollander is interviewing

Hollander has a bad reputation for being a screamer and having a toxic chambers environment FYI.

viewtopic.php?p=10430859#p10430859

[ANobody]

Nielson (D. Utah) is, from what I understand, incredible. Helps clerks get COA clerkships. Kind. High expectations.

[VirginiaFan]

Nielson (D. Utah) is, from what I understand, incredible. Helps clerks get COA clerkships. Kind. High expectations.

PM me?

[ANobody]

Nielson (D. Utah) is, from what I understand, incredible. Helps clerks get COA clerkships. Kind. High expectations.

PM me?

Nielson (D. Utah) is, from what I understand, incredible. Helps clerks get COA clerkships. Kind. High expectations.

PM me?

I added you as a friend. Not sure how to message you. Try messaging me?

[Anonymous User]

In the spirit of the thread, former SDNY clerk here willing to take questions.

How does Rakoff-Katzmann hiring work?

I am not sure of the exact details. Katzmann is one of the founders of the current clerkship hiring plan, and I think it's his goodwill (and that of Garland) in the 2d Cir, D.C. Cir, and around the country that has encouraged many judges to go along. So obviously he hires some according to the plan and he strictly does not consider 1L apps. But I know he also hires people who, by the time they begin the clerkship, will have been several years out. So he also considers 3L and, maybe, post-grad applications.

I know both Rakoff and Katzmann interview candidates, either back to back or within a few days. They have very different personalities. Katzmann is truly one of the nicest people in the federal courts. He will give you a tour of his office. He is also a former academic, and I think likes hiring people who fit that mold. Rakoff is quirky but very personable and funny. In general, you obviously need top grades. They both teach at schools in the city (Katzmann at NYU, Rakoff at Columbia), and may pull promising students through that pipeline. Both also rely heavily on professor reccs — they are well-connected to profs at all the top schools. It seems they hire mainly from the usual suspect schools: YLS, HLS, SLS, Chicago, NYU, Columbia. I'm not sure how often they drop below the T6. The duo also feeds, and thus they look for potential feeder material in the clerks they hire. Katzmann may have an ideological litmus test — the people who I know have gone to clerk for him have been liberal, and he is obviously a purposivist (he wrote the leading modern defense of that theory of statutory interpretation).

One thing to keep in mind with Rakoff is that he has a very small civil docket and, like Judge Wood, mainly does criminal trials. That materially affects the substantive work of your clerkship and QOL. Trials are grueling experiences for judges and clerks. But you get to be in the fire of trial with one of the best crim pro minds in the nation.

The former clerks I know would be amused by the notion that Rakoff has a very small civil docket. He and his clerks stay very busy on both sides of the docket. It is true that he has a lot of trials, but that's just on top of everything else.

Hiring is done jointly. Candidates get a call from one chambers to set up interviews in both. It's typically on the same day, usually back to back. They hire people who have at least a credible shot at the Supreme Court, and they are strong enough feeders that they get plenty of people who are shoo-ins. That means mostly top YLS and HLS students who have met the right professors. The top two or three students at Columbia and NYU, maybe. Number 1s from lower in the T14 have also been hired. Their clerks tend to be liberals but I know of at least one member of the odious federalist society that slipped through the cracks.

Can verify. Katzmann does sometimes take clerks who don't go to Rakoff first (and sometimes just clerk for him, without a d. ct. clerkship in hand). But regardless, the Rakoff-Katzmann pair, and Katzmann on his own, take pretty much only SCOTUS-level clerks, many from HLS/YLS.

(I had a professor, from one of these places, who told me they would be happy to write a strong rec letter for me to CA2, but not to Katzmann in particular, because my grades were not quite in that range and it wasn't realistic for me. Talk about cutting things finely!)

ETA: Livingston is also pretty much in that range; I didn't mean to imply Katzmann is alone in being that picky.

[Anonymous User]

(I had a professor, from one of these places, who told me they would be happy to write a strong rec letter for me to CA2, but not to Katzmann in particular, because my grades were not quite in that range and it wasn't realistic for me. Talk about cutting things finely!)

ETA: Livingston is also pretty much in that range; I didn't mean to imply Katzmann is alone in being that picky.

This isn't uncommon and it happened to me too. In the crazy world of clerkships I actually found it refreshing that professors were upfront about that sort of stuff. They have limited capital with judges and they're going to use it on candidates they think they can help move the needle for.

My mid-T14 clerkship office was under the, perhaps misguided, impression that Livingston was more attainable than Rakoff/Katzmann (who did not hire from us). As I found out later they had been trying every year to place a FedSoc clerk who was just below tippy-top feeder level with Livingston, and she never bit. They tried the same with Kethledge and eventually broke through with him after several cycles of trying.

[Anonymous User]

This isn't uncommon and it happened to me too. In the crazy world of clerkships I actually found it refreshing that professors were upfront about that sort of stuff. They have limited capital with judges and they're going to use it on candidates they think they can help move the needle for.

I 100% agree, and I actually wish more schools were realistic about this. My school's clerkship office has an "apply wherever because you might as well" policy and it's so frustrating. My professors who were honest with me and what I could reasonably attain were SO much more helpful, even if their honesty was a hit to my ego, because I actually got guidance on how to strategize my applications and I wasn't just shooting a hundred applications into the void.

[Anonymous User]

(I had a professor, from one of these places, who told me they would be happy to write a strong rec letter for me to CA2, but not to Katzmann in particular, because my grades were not quite in that range and it wasn't realistic for me. Talk about cutting things finely!)

ETA: Livingston is also pretty much in that range; I didn't mean to imply Katzmann is alone in being that picky.

This isn't uncommon and it happened to me too. In the crazy world of clerkships I actually found it refreshing that professors were upfront about that sort of stuff. They have limited capital with judges and they're going to use it on candidates they think they can help move the needle for.

My mid-T14 clerkship office was under the, perhaps misguided, impression that Livingston was more attainable than Rakoff/Katzmann (who did not hire from us). As I found out later they had been trying every year to place a FedSoc clerk who was just below tippy-top feeder level with Livingston, and she never bit. They tried the same with Kethledge and eventually broke through with him after several cycles of trying.

Livingston is tricky for non-Columbia schools is because she is one of maybe 3 judges that favors Columbia students - doing well in her classes gives you a good chance of getting an interview if you speak with her beforehand and have the right credentials (Kent, probable Ginsburg Prize).

Rakoff and Katzmann heavily favor Yale and Havard above others, despite Rakoff teaching quite a few Columbia students every year.